Evolution Question

[Ectezus]

Her question wasn't --- How's come we don't? --- but, How's come we can't?

Can we --- or can't we?

Personally I don't know for certain. Therefore I think it's an interesting question.
But even the person who asked doesn't know, his assumption that we can't use apes as organ donors is based on the fact that we don't use them.

And as pointed out there are plenty of reasons to come up with why we're not using apes even IF they are viable.

I'd like to add the following reasons (besides ethical) as well: Apes breed and grow slowly and produce few offspring.

- Ectezus

 

[AV1611VET]

And as pointed out there are plenty of reasons to come up with why we're not using apes even IF they are viable.

Let me guess why you guys don't know.

1. No definition exists?
2. It never crossed your minds to look into it further?
3. 100% of you automatically agree that it's "unethical"?
4. New discoveries says to you need to...

--- oh, wait --- this is about evolution --- not Pluto.

Sorry --- /thread

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

As mentioned, it's not necessarily that we can't accept organs from other apes, but that we don't.

But even if we can't, so what? I'm extremely closely related to my parents and my brother and my cousins, but there's no guarantee that I could receive an organ from any of them.

You are right, your "extremely close" relatives may not be a match for you. But if you were put on a donors list, someone, somewhere would be compatible.

So if we are related to the Ape Kingdom, shouldn't there be an ape somewhere that would be compatible?

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Now, all of a sudden, morals and ethics are getting in the way of science?

Her question wasn't --- How's come we don't? --- but, How's come we can't?

Can we --- or can't we?

I am still trying to find why we don't. Closest I have come to is the disease issue. But I can't find anywhere that states we have tried, kind of funny if you ask me!

 

[Hespera]

So if we are related to the Ape Kingdom, shouldn't there be an ape somewhere that would be compatible? QUOTE////


Hespera sez: In theory, yes; but also, in theory, no.

 

[FedererFan]

You are right, your "extremely close" relatives may not be a match for you. But if you were put on a donors list, someone, somewhere would be compatible.

So if we are related to the Ape Kingdom, shouldn't there be an ape somewhere that would be compatible?

I don't really know the answer for this, but I would think that it would be for the same reason that we cannot breed with them. Just because we're closely related doesn't mean that we're identical. Perhaps an organ transplant would work from the common ancestor, but now, I'd guess that humans and apes have evolved to differently. But hey, science may make it happen some day!

 

[Ectezus]

Let me guess why you guys don't know.

You guys? Does that include you? Because I haven't seen you bring up anything useful about the subject. Why do you have to make it about us and them. Evolutionists vs Creationists.

It's an interesting question asked and admitting we both don't know does not mean anything.

I personally would however expect apes to be better donors than most other animals (like lions, fish, and alligators). If that's proven to be absolutely incorrect I would be suprised. However so far no evidence has been presented like apes aren't good donors.

The OP is only based on the assumption that they can't be good donors because they aren't being used. And the latter, as demonstrated has many obvious reasons.



- Ectezus

 

[Skaloop]

Now, all of a sudden, morals and ethics are getting in the way of science?

Her question wasn't --- How's come we don't? --- but, How's come we can't?

Can we --- or can't we?

All of a sudden? The Hippocratic Oath was about ethical and moral limitations on science. It's not a new thing.

Anyway, as to that closing question, we can in some situations.

 

[Mystman]

Actually apes are descendant from monkeys as far as I know, so technically we did originate from monkeys.
Then again, we could go a few steps further and say the same thing for fish.

All my monkey knowledge comes from wikipedia:

Monkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AV1611VET]

All of a sudden? The Hippocratic Oath was about ethical and moral limitations on science. It's not a new thing.

Science doesn't take the Hippocratic Oath --- people do.

 

[Skaloop]

You are right, your "extremely close" relatives may not be a match for you. But if you were put on a donors list, someone, somewhere would be compatible.

So if we are related to the Ape Kingdom, shouldn't there be an ape somewhere that would be compatible?

Well, it has been done. Baboon hearts have been transplanted into humans.

Organ Transplants from Animals: Examining the Possibilities

The reasons listed there for why it's not done a whole lot are, as mentioned, diseases and viruses. But also, transplanting organs from other species is still somewhat experimental, and carries increased risks over human organ transplantation. And finally, baboons aren't exactly running around everywhere, so even getting an organ from one in the first place is not easy.

 

[Skaloop]

Science doesn't take the Hippocratic Oath --- people do.

Yeah, these people place limits, based on ethical and moral considerations, on what they are willing to do in order to advance scientific knowledge.

If someone somewhere wanted to perform experiments that were unethical or immoral, there's nothing about science that would stop them. Science is not limited by ethics or morals; people are.

 

[Ectezus]

Actually apes are descendant from monkeys as far as I know, so technically we did originate from monkeys.
Then again, we could go a few steps further and say the same thing for fish.

All my monkey knowledge comes from wikipedia:

Monkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes wiki is a great source in general.

Second paragraph:

"The New World monkeys are classified within the parvorder Platyrrhini, whereas the Old World monkeys (superfamily Cercopithecoidea) form part of the parvorder Catarrhini, which also includes the apes. Thus, scientifically speaking, monkeys are paraphyletic (not a single coherent group), and Old World monkeys are actually more closely related to the apes than they are to the New World monkeys."

Basically from what I've understood (from a documantary) is that there were first monkeys and they gave rise to apes.

- Ectezus

 

[Washington]

There is a significant distance between humans and the other primates.​

 

[BananaSlug]

Let me guess why you guys don't know.

1. No definition exists?
2. It never crossed your minds to look into it further?
3. 100% of you automatically agree that it's "unethical"?
4. New discoveries says to you need to...

--- oh, wait --- this is about evolution --- not Pluto.

Sorry --- /thread

Sounds like someone is upset because they are trying to use changing scientific vernacular and definitions as an inept argument against evolution.

Kidneys, livers and hearts from baboons and chimpanzees were surgically transplanted into patients from 1963 to 1992, but all of the patients died shortly afterwards. Pigs are another animal used in experimental organ transplant surgery, but so far there have been no 100% successful transplants.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Well, it has been done. Baboon hearts have been transplanted into humans.

Yes this has been done, but there are no survivors. From what I have read (so far), it still circles around the viruses the apes harbor.

Why do we (humans) not harbor the same viruses as apes? Was the body smart enough that when it "evolved" it removed the viruses?

Personally I don't think so!

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Pigs are another animal used in experimental organ transplant surgery, but so far there have been no 100% successful transplants.

Actually this is true, they favor using pigs organs over any other specie. Isn't that kind of funny? Maybe we actually come from pigs then, eh?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Now, all of a sudden, morals and ethics are getting in the way of science?

"All of a sudden," AV? where have you been?

Her question wasn't --- How's come we don't? --- but, How's come we can't?

Can we --- or can't we?

My blood type is O positive -- the smart money says yours isn't.

If I can't even get an organ donation from you, does that mean you're not as human as I am?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Yes this has been done, but there are no survivors. From what I have read (so far), it still circles around the viruses the apes harbor.

Why do we (humans) not harbor the same viruses as apes? Was the body smart enough that when it "evolved" it removed the viruses?

Personally I don't think so!

Or perhaps it's because viruses evolve too.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Or perhaps it's because viruses evolve too.

A virus evolved into hmmmm nothing? Which means it depleted itself?