Evolution Question

[GuidanceNeeded]

Why? A friend of mine is in need of a kidney donation, both his parents and a sibling were tested and found to be incompatible. Does this mean that they were not related?

First off sorry to hear about your friends child. I cannot even begin to imagine what the parents are going through.

But I said this in several postings back. When placed on the Donors list, someone, somewhere, would be a match.

That being said, there should be an ape out there that can also be a match, IF we were to come from apes.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

That being said, there should be an ape out there that can also be a match, IF we were to come from apes.

Why?

I think everyone has given credence to your premise, but I don't think you've ever explained why it's valid.

 

[plindboe]

The other big apes are all endangered, so that's the main reason why they aren't used. Concerning monkeys, baboons was one possibility, but still a very poor one, since they are much smaller than humans. The pig is a good choice size wise, and since we're already mass-producing and consuming this animal, the ethical considerations are much easier for the public to swallow.

Peter

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Why?

Because if the claim is we come from apes then we should be compatible.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Because if the claim is we come from apes then we should be compatible.

Again, why "should" this be so?

(And as an aside, I've noticed many times creationists claim similarities between species is a result of "common design". So in theory, if we were all created via a common designer and have the same organs, shouldn't we also be able to swap them at will?)

 

[Nathan Poe]

Your right, I admitted that from the beginning, that I myself was trying to see why we don't use Apes for organ transplants. Main point being that if we come from apes we should be able to use their organs. I guess I just wanted to point that out to all the evolutionist.

And then the evolutionists pointed out to you how rarely human-to-human organ transplants work out, and you ignored that blindingly obvious fact.

When our closest match -- our own species -- fails more than half the time, why go to a distant second?

Argumentative? Yes I will give you that, I am.

Argumentative is only mildly annoying when one has a point to argue. Those who persist even after their point gets refuted are usually just obnoxious.

Oh FYI - My Avatar "Jesus is the final answer", should of been a DEAD give away of what side of the fence I stand on.

Yeah, we noticed -- but we've got plenty of Christians around here whose faith is no lesser than your who see no problems with evolutionary theory.

I guess we just expected more from you.

Wow us Christian can still shock you? I find that interesting in itself.

Not shocked -- just disappointed. And there's nothing interesting about it; it's played out all too often.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

And then the evolutionists pointed out to you how rarely human-to-human organ transplants work out, and you ignored that blindingly obvious fact.

Honestly I did not see the posting where someone said this, but I beg to differ on this

Following are one-year patient and organ graft survival rates:

Organ Patient
Survival Rate Graft
Survival RateKidney (cadaveric)
Kidney (live donor)
Pancreas
Liver
Heart
Heart-lung
Lung
Intestine94.8%
97.7%
95.9%
86.9%
85.8%
74.7%
75.8%
69.6%87.5%
93.5%
70.2%
79.2%
85.5%
76.1%
75.0%


Seems like a pretty good success rate to me, don't it to you?

Information given by: 25 Facts About Organ Donation and Transplantation

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

Evidently not, according to the OPs logic.

While my friend's case is vary rare, it can be extended to other more widespread compatibility issues. One springs to mind is blood type, how could such incompatibilities in blood types have arisen withing the YEC time frame? people with different blood types must have been created separately and have no relation to each other when applying the OPs logic.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Argumentative is only mildly annoying when one has a point to argue. Those who persist even after their point gets refuted are usually just obnoxious.

Yes my husband has also called me annoying, arugmentative, and obnoxious!

JUST be glad you don't live with me!!!!

 

[Skaloop]

First off sorry to hear about your friends child. I cannot even begin to imagine what the parents are going through.

But I said this in several postings back. When placed on the Donors list, someone, somewhere, would be a match.

Probably, yes. But the actual number of those who would be willing to donate is pretty minimal. Before, I said there were over 100,000 people on the transplant waiting list. There were about 2,400 transplants so far this year. Which goes to show how hard it is to get viable donors. And that's in a population of 300 million, not 300 thousand.

Also, many transplanted organs come from deceased people. To qualify, those people would have to, in general, be healthy and die from something that doesn't harm their organs, and then be gotten to in time to actually save the organs. Such a demise is unlikely for apes, since they tend not to die suddenly at a young age without disease somewhere where we can get to them. The organs from a fit young man who dies of a head injury in a car crash can often be used. Too bad not many apes die in car crashes. They tend to die of disease or old age, which would rule them out as donors.

That being said, there should be an ape out there that can also be a match, IF we were to come from apes.

We did come from apes, since we are apes. That doesn't mean that we can just switch out organs willy-nilly. I definitely came from my mother, but she would not be able to donate anything for me.

Bottom line is, the fact that we don't do organ transplants in humans with the organs of other primates has absolutely no bearing on the veracity of evolution.

 

[Cabal]

Following are one-year patient and organ graft survival rates:

Organ Patient
Survival Rate Graft
Survival RateKidney (cadaveric)
Kidney (live donor)
Pancreas
Liver
Heart
Heart-lung
Lung
Intestine94.8%
97.7%
95.9%
86.9%
85.8%
74.7%
75.8%
69.6%87.5%
93.5%
70.2%
79.2%
85.5%
76.1%
75.0%


Seems like a pretty good success rate to me, don't it to you?

Information given by: 25 Facts About Organ Donation and Transplantation

Don't forget, this is after we've essentially forced compatibility via immunosuppressants etc. If you took those out of the equation I suspect the success rate would be a lot less.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Honestly I did not see the posting where someone said this, but I beg to differ on this

Following are one-year patient and organ graft survival rates:

Organ Patient
Survival Rate Graft
Survival RateKidney (cadaveric)
Kidney (live donor)
Pancreas
Liver
Heart
Heart-lung
Lung
Intestine94.8%
97.7%
95.9%
86.9%
85.8%
74.7%
75.8%
69.6%87.5%
93.5%
70.2%
79.2%
85.5%
76.1%
75.0%


Seems like a pretty good success rate to me, don't it to you?

Information given by: 25 Facts About Organ Donation and Transplantation

The one-year survival rates do look pretty good.

The moral of the story is, if you want to live for at least a year, get human parts put into you.

You really think that disproves evolution somehow?

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Still waiting for the OP to explain why, if humans and other primates share common ancestors, this means they should be able to freely transplant organs...

 

[Split Rock]

Actually this is true, they favor using pigs organs over any other specie. Isn't that kind of funny? Maybe we actually come from pigs then, eh?

The reason pigs are used, has to do with the size of the organs. For example, pig arteries are often used for grating into humans simply because they are of a similar size to ours.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Don't forget, this is after we've essentially forced compatibility via immunosuppressants etc. If you took those out of the equation I suspect the success rate would be a lot less.

Yeah, that darned immune system!

 

[Split Rock]

Don't forget, this is after we've essentially forced compatibility via immunosuppressants etc. If you took those out of the equation I suspect the success rate would be a lot less.

These are all tissue-matched to be as compatable as possible as well.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Don't forget, this is after we've essentially forced compatibility via immunosuppressants etc. If you took those out of the equation I suspect the success rate would be a lot less.

Regardless, it's still an excellent success rate. No matter the measures they had to take for it to become succcessful. If those things are needed immunosuppresants etc, why would you take them away to get a lower ratio?

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Still waiting for the OP to explain why, if humans and other primates share common ancestors, this means they should be able to freely transplant organs...

OK seriously it just seems logical to me. That IF we came from apes that yes we should be able to find an ape that would match a human. I'm not saying every single ape would match every single person, just like parents aren't always matches to their children. But someone from another country could be compatible whether they are technically a family member or not.

 

[Cabal]

Regardless, it's still an excellent success rate. No matter the measures they had to take for it to become succcessful. If those things are needed immunosuppresants etc, why would you take them away to get a lower ratio?

Because the process of evolution, for the vast majority of its duration, hasn't had hoomans around tinkering with the odds. If you just yoink an organ out from one hooman and stick it in another and let nature take its course, chances are they're going to die.

Goodness, even putting the wrong sort of blood in the wrong person's system can kill them. If there's that much of an issue over the same type of blood between members of the same species, why should organ transplant be any easier?

 

[Split Rock]

Regardless, it's still an excellent success rate. No matter the measures they had to take for it to become succcessful. If those things are needed immunosuppresants etc, why would you take them away to get a lower ratio?

He's saying that it because of these measures that tissue transplants have a hig suceess rate. Not because compatablity is universal even among humans. For transplants between any two different species, you are greatly increasing the incompatablity. Even if they are genetically related.

There are literally hundreds of genetic variants in the human HLA gene series. These genes are the ones that cause tissue rejection. How much more variation would you expect between different species? IMGT/HLA Database| EBI

By the way, if you believe we all came from two people 6,000 years ago, can you explain to us where all these variants came from?