Evolution Question

[Gracchus]

I will stand behind if we come from apes we should be compatible.

By that logic, if an organ is human, it should be compatible, but you have been repeatedly shown that this is not the case. That is in fact, why transplant recipients are always given immunosuppressants to prevent rejection.

As far as modern day apes, so apes today are different than the apes 1000 yrs ago? I know, I know, your going to say 1000 yrs ago, try billions of years ago.

You are off by several orders of magnitude. Try millions, not billions. The American billion is a thousand times a million (10^3 X 10^6 = 10^9), and, if I remember correctly, the British billion is a million times a million (10^ X 10^6 = 10^12)

That fact you can't even get the numbers straight indicates to some folks that your opinion is worse than useless.

Well I beg to differ here. I can honestly say I don't know how old the earth is (in exact yrs) but I am a believer that the world is not billions of yrs old.

Which puts you in the same intellectual class as those who believe in a flat Earth, or a geocentric solar system, or that the Earth is supported by an enormous elephant standing on a giant turtle swimming through an infinite sea of milk.

Maybe the universe was all poofed into existence by Magic Sky-Daddy less than a hundred thousand years ago, but then he also poofed into existence the evidence indicating he didn't.

 

[AV1611VET]

I believe I'm being called obnoxious because I'm not going along with everyone answers. Which is fine, kind of like you have your opinion and I have mine. I will stand behind if we come from apes we should be compatible.

As far as modern day apes, so apes today are different than the apes 1000 yrs ago? I know, I know, your going to say 1000 yrs ago, try billions of years ago. Well I beg to differ here. I can honestly say I don't know how old the earth is (in exact yrs) but I am a believer that the world is not billions of yrs old.

Good for you, GN!

These people love to talk about how Fairlanes and Galaxies come from the same company (Ford), and how the older Fords are 98% similar to the newer Fords.

That is, until someone asks an honest question like you did --- then all you get for an "honest" answer is how much different and incompatible those two cars are.

I also love how "scientists" can find a fan belt and from it, draw a whole new model of a Ford car, then say it's one of the missing links between a Model T and the Focus.

 

[Vehementi Dominus]

Good for you, GN!

These people love to talk about how Fairlanes and Galaxies come from the same company (Ford), and how the older Fords are 98% similar to the newer Fords.

That is, until someone asks an honest question like you did --- then all you get for an "honest" answer is how much different and incompatible those two cars are.

I also love how "scientists" can find a fan belt and from it, draw a whole new model of a Ford car, then say it's one of the missing links between a Model T and the Focus.

You simply cannot compare cars to organic, living beings. For starters, cars don't reproduce themselves.

It's that process of reproduction that causes evolution. Mutations that arise from incorrectly copied DNA strands doesn't happen with cars.

And as far as your "Science can take a hike" thing, you wouldn't even be able to come to this forum if it wasn't for the scientific methood. Computers wouldn't exist, because we would never've harnessed electricity. Infact, if you dispise science so much, then why aren't you living out in a jungle somewhere, eating only things that you've hunted with your stone axe, and dressing only in their hides?

Even then, just be thankful to science that you stand no chance of contracting smallpox, or any other diseases you've been immunised against.

Alternatively, you're just acting like Edward Current, and your post is satrical. In which case, jokes!

 

[AV1611VET]

You simply cannot compare cars to organic, living beings.

Missing the point, aren't you?

And as far as your "Science can take a hike" thing, you wouldn't even be able to come to this forum if it wasn't for the scientific methood. Computers wouldn't exist, because we would never've harnessed electricity. Infact, if you dispise science so much, then why aren't you living out in a jungle somewhere, eating only things that you've hunted with your stone axe, and dressing only in their hides?

Even then, just be thankful to science that you stand no chance of contracting smallpox.

My "'Science can take a hike thing'" doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[Vehementi Dominus]

Alternatively, you're just acting like Edward Current, and your post is satrical. In which case, jokes!

I'm guessing you started posting after I edited that bit?

 

[Tenka]

I believe I'm being called obnoxious because I'm not going along with everyone answers.

You are being called obnoxious because your behavior is obnoxious, you were treated fairly and given good answers which you repaid with arrogance, sarcasm and dishonest misrepresentations of the answers you were given.
You are free to believe you were persecuted for being some kind of evolution busting maverick, but you have been a very poor ambassador and nobody is impressed with you.

Which is fine, kind of like you have your opinion and I have mine. I will stand behind if we come from apes we should be compatible.

If you had had an honest look at the answers you were given you would see that many people have stated that indeed apes may provide compatible organs but that it is not practical to use them as a source.
Furthermore, simply being closely related is no guarantee of compatibility.

As far as modern day apes, so apes today are different than the apes 1000 yrs ago?

Evolutionary theory holds that we humans, gorillas, chimps and all other great apes share a common ancestor. Again, nobody is saying we've evolved from any existing modern apes, they've diverged one way from our ancestor and we, another.

I know, I know, your going to say 1000 yrs ago, try billions of years ago. Well I beg to differ here.

The dispute is not between you and I, but between you and science.
I'll stick with science thanks. I don't have the arrogance to think my opinion is better founded than the conclusions of thousands of men and women who spend their lives actually studying the evidence.

 

[Hespera]

Thanks Tenka for your exactly right on summation.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Evolutionary theory holds that we humans, gorillas, chimps and all other great apes share a common ancestor. Again, nobody is saying we've evolved from any existing modern apes, they've diverged one way from our ancestor and we, another.

And right there it is! Theory! It's all it is, it's a theory. They still are calling these FACTS!

The dispute is not between you and I, but between you and science. I'll stick with science thanks. I don't have the arrogance to think my opinion is better founded than the conclusions of thousands of men and women who spend their lives actually studying the evidence.

I suppose it is between science and myself, but do you not argue on behalf of the scientist?

I truly believe the scientist can twist and turn things to make anything sound like what they make it to sound like. So you continue with your belief in having faith in the scientist. I myself will continue believing in my Bible.

 

[Vehementi Dominus]

And right there it is! Theory! It's all it is, it's a theory. They still are calling these FACTS!



I suppose it is between science and myself, but do you not argue on behalf of the scientist?

I truly believe the scientist can twist and turn things to make anything sound like what they make it to sound like. So you continue with your belief in having faith in the scientist. I myself will continue believing in my Bible.

You don't even understand the scientific methood if you're saying that it's "Just a theory.". A theory is the highest status anything in science can reach, it's when all evidence points towards it and no evidence contradicts it.

By your logic, germ theory, the theory of gravity and the general theory of relativity are also "just" theories.

If gravity were "just a theory", then we'd be in total weightlessness, because the theory that mass attracts mass would be "just a theory."

If germ theory were "just a theory", then what the smeg are those cells that we otherwise call germs?

If the general theory of relativity were "just a theory", then nuclear warheads would be impossible, and WW2 may've never ended.

Replace the word "Theory" with "Explanation" and you might understand it a little better.

The difference between faith and acceptance is evidence. One can accept what the scientists say, based on the evidence they present. Whereas faith requires no evidence. So you can go back to having faith in your bible, but we accept what science has to say, because it presents valid evidence.

If a scientist were to lie, or get something wrong, the scientific field he was working in would tear his work a new one. It wouldn't last 5 minutes, basically. Science is about the journey to uncover the truth, lies and false manipulation serve only to hnder the scientific process.

 

[TheBear]

YouTube - Evolution vs. Creationism:Is Evolution Just a Theory?

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Replace the word "Theory" with "Explanation" and you might understand it a little better.

Why don't we go ahead and replace the word "theory" with "fact"? Because then it would be lie, right?

 

[Cabal]

Why don't we go ahead and replace the word "theory" with "fact"? Because then it would be lie, right?

No, but given the utter failure of the average joe to grasp a different definition it might help......

 

[AV1611VET]

By your logic, germ theory, the theory of gravity and the general theory of relativity are also "just" theories.

If gravity were "just a theory", then we'd be in total weightlessness, because the theory that mass attracts mass would be "just a theory."

If germ theory were "just a theory", then what the smeg are those cells that we otherwise call germs?

If the general theory of relativity were "just a theory", then nuclear warheads would be impossible, and WW2 may've never ended.

Replace the word "Theory" with "Explanation" and you might understand it a little better.

Sorta like Flat Earth Theory, Geocentrism, and Phlogiston?

Not to mention Aryan Supremacy and the Malthusian Doctrine?

Do you deny that scientists used to teach these as --- at the least --- "plausible"?

What about the Bermuda Triangle or Psychokenesis?

Can you answer w/o invoking the No True Scotsman Fallicy?

 

[Tenka]

And right there it is! Theory! It's all it is, it's a theory. They still are calling these FACTS!

Facts themselves are of limited use and apple falls if you let go of it....this fact doesn't help us design airplanes. Scientific theories explain facts, theories are the most valuable thing we have.

I suppose it is between science and myself, but do you not argue on behalf of the scientist?

No, I've merely explained what I understand. I'm not responsible for representing science.

I truly believe the scientist can twist and turn things to make anything sound like what they make it to sound like. So you continue with your belief in having faith in the scientist. I myself will continue believing in my Bible.

Science never asks for my faith, I know all scientific theories are wrong in part, and that future observations will show us where and we will make amendments that will improve the accuracy of the theory.
In the mean time they are the best answers we have and are the basis for all the technology we use.

I truly believe the scientist can twist and turn things to make anything sound like what they make it to sound like.

Humans are not infallible but no one could continue a fraud indefinitely, too many other competitors are doing research that would uncover you. Science produces highly profitable discoveries, having accurate theories is very important much more so than having people agree with your conclusions.

 

[Cabal]

Good for you, GN!

These people love to talk about how Fairlanes and Galaxies come from the same company (Ford), and how the older Fords are 98% similar to the newer Fords.

That is, until someone asks an honest question like you did --- then all you get for an "honest" answer is how much different and incompatible those two cars are.

I also love how "scientists" can find a fan belt and from it, draw a whole new model of a Ford car, then say it's one of the missing links between a Model T and the Focus.

I believe I'm being called obnoxious because I'm not going along with everyone answers. Which is fine, kind of like you have your opinion and I have mine. I will stand behind if we come from apes we should be compatible.

As far as modern day apes, so apes today are different than the apes 1000 yrs ago? I know, I know, your going to say 1000 yrs ago, try billions of years ago. Well I beg to differ here. I can honestly say I don't know how old the earth is (in exact yrs) but I am a believer that the world is not billions of yrs old.

You're both missing the point - there is commonality, and it manifests in the fact that members of both species have highly individualised biochemistry and immune systems. I'm sure human organs wouldn't work in apes very easily either. There are, of course, differences too - speciation and genetic variation are what create biodiversity - all of which is covered just dandy by ToE. The mere fact that differences and similarities exist, or that the degree of similarity/difference doesn't match up with the extent of your understanding of ToE, makes no difference to the already observed evidence.

GN - your argument is based on nothing more than a hunch - evolution doesn't make the argument you make, no matter how much you protest it should - because of the long-established fact that even between closely related members of the same species, tissue compatibility is an incredibly difficult task. There is commonality however as specified above - this in conjunction with the other mountains of evidence for evolution.

You came in with a loaded question and a faulty assumption and got called on it. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions or insist that the answers turn out the way you want. You are of course entitled to believe what you want and hold your opinion - but remember you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

 

[Vehementi Dominus]

Sick video.

I believe it's saved us from having to do a lot of explaining. >_<

 

[Cabal]

Sorta like Flat Earth Theory, Geocentrism, and Phlogiston?

Not to mention Aryan Supremacy and the Malthusian Doctrine?

Do you deny that scientists used to teach these as --- at the least --- "plausible"?

What about the Bermuda Triangle or Psychokenesis?

Can you answer w/o invoking the No True Scotsman Fallicy?

Doesn't make any difference to the concept of the word "theory" AV, but nice strawman all the same.

And thanks for backing up the guy who's on your side but comes with nothing but yet another lame argument. Intellectual integrity can take a hike, clearly.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

No, but given the utter failure of the average joe to grasp a different definition it might help......

No they haven't change theory to fact because it is not a fact. They don't call it a fact because they cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that evolution actually occurred.

No one was around to actually wittiness "evolution". Time travel hasn't been invented so we can't go back 1,000 - 6,000 yrs and watch this occur.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm sure human organs wouldn't work in apes very easily either. There are, of course, differences too - speciation and genetic variation are what create biodiversity - all of which is covered just dandy by ToE.

So that 2% represents a barrier that nature cannot cross?

 

[AV1611VET]

Doesn't make any difference to the concept of the word "theory" AV, but nice strawman all the same.

And thanks for backing up the guy who's on your side but comes with nothing but yet another lame argument. Intellectual integrity can take a hike, clearly.

In other words, you don't know?