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Evolution Question

Cabal

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong --- but the US is the only country in the world that has --- embedded in its Constitution --- a Bill of Rights that ensures no pogrom will ever legally occur on its soil.

Which is exactly what our first 10 Ammendments ensure.

How nice. Is that before or after they suckered you all with the "Patriot" Act? (A fine piece of Newspeak there to be sure....)

Anyway, this discussion isn't about the US - it's about going from "a miniscule group of people self-described as scientists mutilated Jewish prisoners" to "Someone (capital s, is that God or the US Government we're talking about now?) needs to keep an eye on scientists (general term)".

Thanks, AV, thanks very much. Charming as ever.
 
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AV1611VET

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...it's about going from "a miniscule group of people self-described as scientists...
I knew you couldn't go very long w/o invoking the No True Scotsman Argument --- which is what science runs on.
 
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Cabal

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I knew you couldn't go very long w/o invoking the No True Scotsman Argument --- which is what science runs on.

LOL - this coming from a creationist.

And woah there - I merely said they called themselves scientists. I'm willing to agree the same on the point I made regarding the Spanish Inquistion being done by Christians et al - that it was done in the name of science, even though it went against the spirit of it.

Which is more than you were ever willing to concede in that debate.
 
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Vehementi Dominus

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Excuse me --- but please answer this honestly --- (okay, please just answer it):

The Crusades --- were they done in respect to the Bible - or in spite of the Bible?

Aryan Supremacy --- in respect to nature - or in spite of nature?

The crusades, the Inquisition, witch hunts and witch burnings, amongst others, all done in the name of God.

Aryan Supremacy - Hitler was not a scientist. "Aryan Supremacy" was his own personal belief, forced on a country through dictatorship. If you were to check, though, every single Nazi had "Gott mit uns!" on their belt.
 
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Hespera

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So lets go ahead and discuss this "modern day ape".

What I am to believe is that 1 million yrs ago (just for the sake of argument, I'll let this one go) there were apes. Now these apes weren't like the apes today but considered apes nonetheless. Now the apes today are their ancestors of the apes back then. Now during the evolving process some apes remained "looking" like apes but really aren't the same apes from 1 million yrs ago; BUT other apes took on the human form (i.e US)?????

WOW if my understanding of this evolution thing is correct, that sounds a little far fetched!


That is a mighty big IF. You dont have a very good understanding of evolution. Perhaps that can change.

And by the way, most anything can be described in a way to make it sound ridiculous. I would get kicked off the forum for it, but it would not be hard to tell the bible stories in a way that would make them seem as ridiculous childish and far fetched as you like.

If you would like to learn something, that is possible to arrange. If you jut want to try to poke (ignorant) fun, well that really is not worthwhile.


By the way, as for how things looked in the past, and what they are now...
Take crocodiles, maybe. They have existed for many tens of millions of years. You can look at a croc skeleton from T rex days, and it is obviously a crocodile. Try to match it to a living species. and it wont fit. There was one for example that got to be 65 ft long.

There were crocodiles then, there are crocodiles now. They arent exactly the same. There were apes in the past there are apes (including people) now. Of course they dont look quite the same as they did at all times in the past. What is far fetched about that?
 
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GuidanceNeeded

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Yes, ok, now you've grasped the "We did not evolve from modern day great apes." bit.

Now let's see if you can master the "We share a common ancestor" part.

You are very right there, their names were Adam and Eve

We both evolved from the same species, millions and millions of years ago, the environment caused them to go down one evolutionary path, whilst we went down another. Both paths were equally suited to survive, but that divergence shows that atthat fork, our ancestors were better at surviving one way, whilst other ape's ancestors were better at surviving another way.

I'm sorry but that is just too far fetched. First off, I don't believe the earth is a million yrs old.

Secondly, to say that monkeys (or whatever) continued to multiply over the course of years and then one day "science" decided "hey wouldn't this be fun to break off into other species".

I just don't buy what your selling.

And to touch base of what I said a few post back about science deciding to regress, if science has a "mind" of its own (which is basically what your are saying) how do you know it's not going to decide to go backwards. Maybe "it" doesn't like how "it" made things and wants a change.
 
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Cabal

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And to touch base of what I said a few post back about science deciding to regress, if science has a "mind" of its own (which is basically what your are saying) how do you know it's not going to decide to go backwards. Maybe "it" doesn't like how "it" made things and wants a change.

No, science does NOT have a mind of its own. This has been stated explicitly to you time and time again.

The genetic traits that allow the best chance of survival in a given environment will persist - because the individuals possessing them SURVIVE. Eventually, these changes result in a reproductive incompatibility arising within groups of the population - speciation.
 
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Vehementi Dominus

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If it was Adam and Eve, we're essentially the result of countless generations of inbreeding. No, there were three seperate families, and they were African. It has been traced back through mitochondrial DNA.

Science going backwards would require us losing knowledge we've already gained. Which is just stupid. Basically, it could only regress back to the point where religion was accepted as science.

I hate it when it gets to a point in a discussion, where the opposition's post is so simply stupid that you have difficulty replying in a manner you know they'll understand.

You wouldn't understand 2/3 of the evidence I gave you for the earth being older than you think it is, and the 1/3 you did understand you'd simply ignore.

You're even using science in the wrong context. How can I even hope to drill sense into you? Science is the means by which we can understand the universe, through observation and evidence. Science doesn't dictate the way the natural world works, it explains how it works.

And nature didn't just one day decide "Oh, I'll make a new species." It happened over millions of years. You know what? I will give you the evidence that the Earth is older than 7 days, or whatever. Make the whole explaining evolution thing infinately easier. If you don't understand it or choose to ignore it, well, that's through your own ignorance, and unwillingness to learn anything contrary to what you believe, whether true or not.:

YouTube - Earth Story: Video 1.The age of the earth (1 of 6 )

YouTube - 5 -- The Age of Our World Made Easy

Again, if you ignore it, then that's the result of your own ignorant stubbornness.

If you don't understand it, and you won't do your own research on it, then that's through the fault of your own laziness, in which case, you have no position in saying that the Earth is not millions of years old.
 
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GuidanceNeeded

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By the way, as for how things looked in the past, and what they are now...
Take crocodiles, maybe. They have existed for many tens of millions of years. You can look at a croc skeleton from T rex days, and it is obviously a crocodile. Try to match it to a living species. and it wont fit. There was one for example that got to be 65 ft long.

There were crocodiles then, there are crocodiles now. They arent exactly the same. There were apes in the past there are apes (including people) now. Of course they dont look quite the same as they did at all times in the past. What is far fetched about that?

So again science decided it was time for apes to evolve into humans, but left the crocodiles alone? How doesn't that sound ridiculous?

<sigh> Again I don't believe the earth is that old.

And by the way, most anything can be described in a way to make it sound ridiculous. I would get kicked off the forum for it, but it would not be hard to tell the bible stories in a way that would make them seem as ridiculous childish and far fetched as you like.

As far as ridiculing the Bible, I believe what my Bible tells me from Genesis through Revelations, because I have faith that God exist, I believe the Bible is the word of God. Others can choose to believe it or not. Just as I'm sure you say Creationist can choose to believe the scientist or not.
 
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AV1611VET

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Cabal

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Vehementi Dominus

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So again science decided it was time for apes to evolve into humans, but left the crocodiles alone? How doesn't that sound ridiculous?

<sigh> Again I don't believe the earth is that old.



As far as ridiculing the Bible, I believe what my Bible tells me from Genesis through Revelations, because I have faith that God exist, I believe the Bible is the word of God. Others can choose to believe it or not. Just as I'm sure you say Creationist can choose to believe the scientist or not.

Science doesn't decide anything. As I stated earlier. In bold.

Evolution didn't leave the crocodiles alone:

080327-prehistoric-croc-04.jpg

Prehistoric-predator.jpg

Pre-Historic.

croc-skull1-3.jpg

tq-269-lg.jpg

Modern Day.
 
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GuidanceNeeded

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Again, if you ignore it, then that's the result of your own ignorant stubbornness.

If you don't understand it, and you won't do your own research on it, then that's through the fault of your own laziness, in which case, you have no position in saying that the Earth is not millions of years old.

I will watch the videos; but just to give you a heads up, I'm not going to believe anything that contradicts my Bible.

You can call it what you like (i.e. ignorance, stubbornness, laziness); but just like you don't take the word of the Bible to be true, I do not take the words of the scientist to be right.
 
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GuidanceNeeded, your willingness to cling to your misunderstandings and to misrepresent what people are telling you shows you've no motivation to engage in honest discussion and that you are not equipped to critic anything you've been told anyway.
For the benefit of the lurkers who read these forums I will continue to correct you.
GuidanceNeeded said:
I'm sorry but that is just too far fetched. First off, I don't believe the earth is a million yrs old.
You aren't qualified to make an educated judgement. The evidence refutes you.
Secondly, to say that monkeys (or whatever) continued to multiply over the course of years and then one day "science" decided "hey wouldn't this be fun to break off into other species".

I just don't buy what your selling.
Nobody is selling this, it is absurd to suggest that anyone believes what you said.
And to touch base of what I said a few post back about science deciding to regress, if science has a "mind" of its own (which is basically what your are saying) how do you know it's not going to decide to go backwards. Maybe "it" doesn't like how "it" made things and wants a change.
Science is a method of investigation, not an entity. Evolution does not go backward, it simply doesn't work the way you imagine it.
 
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Vehementi Dominus

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I will watch the videos; but just to give you a heads up, I'm not going to believe anything that contradicts my Bible.

You can call it what you like (i.e. ignorance, stubbornness, laziness); but just like you don't take the word of the Bible to be true, I do not take the words of the scientist to be right.

Of course you're not going to "believe" it. The Bible tells you that 2+2=5, so 2+2=4 is wrong.

Logic can get smegged.

:doh:
 
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AV1611VET

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