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And this is a shining example of how not to present a YEC argument to someone who disagrees with you.
Personally, I lean towards theistic evolution, though I'm not 100% sure. However, within the Church I see it as theologoumena. If TE's are wrong, they're not heretics since many of them have a sincere love for God and His truth, the same goes for YECs and all the other positions that can be taken on the subject.
ETA: I do agree that evolutionary theory should NOT be applied to philosophy. The results shown in history are horrendous.
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I notice that thread title is not "evolution vs the Bible" as Darwin would have put it.
And this is a shining example of how not to present a YEC argument to someone who disagrees with you.
As a Calvinist would you say that such a thing is pre-ordained? Or that we have the duty as Christians to oppose it and we need to each one choose to do so??
yeah, I think the numbers are still stacked heavily in evolution's favor. and they still cannot prove uniformitarianism. even evolutionists say this. that is why it is a theory, and not a law.
and most people test with their conclusions in mind. so no, 150 years of science does not shoot it down. even atheists find holes in evolution.
Are you wholly incapable of discussing this without outlandish and insulting claims about those who disagree with you? Are you really that juvenile? Personally, I think you are probably capable of more mature discussion.It leans heavily in evolutions favor because evolution is actual science, creationism is not.
Also, a theory and a law are not mutually exclusive. A law is simply a body of observations but doesnt explain why they happen. Theories are the explanation part of laws. We can observe that things adapt and change the theory of evolution explains, with evidence, why and how that happens.
Most people test with their conclusions in mind? Says who?
Yes, creationism is completely shot down to all those who dont push conspiracy theories.
Really now?Im not insulting anyone.
Just grow up. This is childish nonsense.Yes, creationism is completely shot down to all those who dont push conspiracy theories.
Really now?
Just grow up. This is childish nonsense.
Do you really consider the (ancient through modern) Holy Saints and Elders of the Church to be conspiracy theorists?
Was that a quote and a reply? Kinda hard to tell.Now, I do want to mention that I don't know any Orthodox person who would deny evolution... <<<<
Well, now you know one!
Your accusation is a straw man. That claim about the "clandestine group trying to trick us into believing something" has not been claimed here.Ok, Im not trying to insult anyone.
If a person is looking at a mound of evidence and claiming that there is a clandestine group trying to trick us into believing something (even though its ok in every mainstream denomination to believe in said theory) then yes, I call that person a conspiracy theorist.
Which isn't an insult. I know a lot of cool conspiracy theorist.
Do you really consider the (ancient through modern) Holy Saints and Elders of the Church to be conspiracy theorists?
Your accusation is a straw man. That claim about the "clandestine group trying to trick us into believing something" has not been claimed here.
Do you really consider the (ancient through modern) Holy Saints and Elders of the Church to be conspiracy theorists?
Openly pushing an agenda one genuinely believes in is not the same as "clandestine group trying to trick us into believing something"It been stated that lawyers try to keep evidence of creationism down and that scientific tests are conducted whilst trying to bend the conclusions to back preconceived notions. So, yeah.
Your lack of respect for our Holy Elders is discouraging.I dont know all of them personally. The ancient ones knew nothing of biology, so I obviously wouldn't consider them. However, if a modern saint of church father has said that the thousands of peer reviewed essays on biological evolution were done dishonestly and unscientifically then yes, I would call them conspiracy theorists. But probably ok guys none the less.
That seems to go along with what Old Earth Creationism advocates when saying that death/dying occurred outside of the Garden of Eden (including the Dinosaurs and their eventual extinction after living centuries before Adam/Eve came into view)...and that Adam/Eve were pushed out into the rest of the world when they sinned, originally being kept from what happened in the rest of nature.I believe that the earth is very old and that dinos probably roamed the earth before Adam and Eve and the Garden were created, since animals were created before humans. I liked also my son's thoughts on it. He said after learning about where probably the Garden of Eden was on the earth, and that the dinosaurs were on different continents on earth that it's possible they lived outside the garden in these countries which were nowhere near the Garden, and they died off due to whatever phenomena before the Fall or the the Fall caused their demise. Since there were no human bones found along dinosaur bones, I think this is a reasonable perspective.
Openly pushing an agenda one genuinely believes in is not the same as "clandestine group trying to trick us into believing something"
clan·des·tine   [klan-des-tin]
adjective
characterized by, done in, or executed with secrecy or concealment, especially for purposes of subversion or deception; private or surreptitious: Their clandestine meetings went undiscovered for two years.
Your subtle deception, attempting to discredit those you disagree with, is noted.
And I don't think anyone was arguing against evolution very much until you started with your anti-Creationist ranting. Well, except for the non-Orthodox trolls. The rest of us were taking pains to be as open to your side as possible. Then you bust in like a bull in a china shop, with a chip on your shoulder, trying to discredit those who differ from your point of view.
Very mature.
Your lack of respect for our Holy Elders is discouraging.
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