Eternal punishment vs eternal life

[tonychanyt]

New International Version,
Matthew 25:46 Then they will go away to eternal [G166] punishment, but the righteous to eternal [G166] life.

Do these two uses of "eternal" carry the same meaning?

They are the same Greek word, so I think they carry the same meaning.

Eternal life is immortal life.

What is eternal punishment?

Eternal punishment is the opposite of eternal life. The punishment is eternal death, i.e., annihilation or the absence of life.
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Conscious punishment or suffering over an infinite period of existence makes little physical sense. In order to be conscious, you need a life or a breadth from God (Genesis 2:7). In other words, conscious torment over an infinite period of time is a form of eternal liveliness.

My paraphrase: Then they will go away to permanent punishment, but the righteous to permanent life.

See also Conscious torment over an infinite period of time?.

 

[d taylor]

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Eternal punishment is eternal separation from the Life of God and remaining a sinner for all of eternity.

 

[Gregorikos]

New International Version,
Matthew 25:46 Then they will go away to eternal [G166] punishment, but the righteous to eternal [G166] life.

Do these two uses of "eternal" carry the same meaning?

They are the same Greek word, so I think they carry the same meaning.

Eternal life is immortal life.

What is eternal punishment?

Eternal punishment is the opposite of eternal life. The punishment is eternal death, i.e., annihilation or the absence of life.
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Conscious punishment or suffering over an infinite period of existence makes little physical sense. In order to be conscious, you need a life or a breadth from God (Genesis 2:7).
In other words, conscious torment over an infinite period of time is a form of eternal life.

My translation: Then they will go away to permanent punishment, but the righteous to permanent life.

Only sentient beings can be punished. Any person who existed at one time, but whose body, soul, and spirit exist only as a matter of history cannot be punished. Any punishment they ever experienced will be over once they cease to exist. Thus, their punishment was not eternal.

In your example above, though death and hades cease to exist, the lake of fire continues. "Where their worm will not die, and their fire is never quenched."

 

[tonychanyt]

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​

Eternal punishment is eternal separation from the Life of God and remaining a sinner for all of eternity.

See Conscious torment over an infinite period of time?

 

[Clare73]

New International Version,
Matthew 25:46 Then they will go away to eternal [G166] punishment, but the righteous to eternal [G166] life.
Do these two uses of "eternal" carry the same meaning?
They are the same Greek word, so I think they carry the same meaning.
Eternal life is immortal life.
What is eternal punishment?
Eternal punishment is the opposite of eternal life. The punishment is eternal death, i.e., annihilation or the absence of life.
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Conscious punishment or suffering over an infinite period of existence makes little physical sense. In order to be conscious, you need a life or a breadth from God (Genesis 2:7).
In other words, conscious torment over an infinite period of time is a form of eternal life.
My paraphrase: Then they will go away to permanent punishment, but the righteous to permanent life.
See also Conscious torment over an infinite period of time?.

Eternal life is God's own divine life.
It is not just about time, it is also about quality, God's own divine life is eternal life.
Therefore, eternal punishment is not a form of eternal life.

 

[tonychanyt]

Eternal life is God's own divine life.
It is not just about time, it is also about quality, God's own divine life is eternal life.
Therefore, eternal punishment is not a form of eternal life.

Is eternal punishment a form of eternal living?

 

[Clare73]

Is eternal punishment a form of eternal living?

It sounds like it is.

 

[tonychanyt]

It sounds like it is.

I agree.

Can a person live forever without the Holy Spirit?

 

[Clare73]

I agree.

Can a person live forever without the Holy Spirit?

Of course, the human spirit is immortal.

It lived without the Holy Spirit before you were born again.

 

[tonychanyt]

Of course, the human spirit is immortal.

verse?

It lived without the Holy Spirit before you were born again.

Right.

 

[Clare73]

verse?

2 Co 5:1-10, which refers to a disembodied state (5:8). What is disembodied? What does not die when our body dies?

 

[Gregorikos]

I agree.

Can a person live forever without the Holy Spirit?

Are you asking if God is able to create a being that could live without his perpetual assistance? I think the answer to that is obviously affirmative.

 

[tonychanyt]

Are you asking if God is able to create a being that could live without his perpetual assistance? I think the answer to that is obviously affirmative.

Can you or President Biden live forever without the Holy Spirit?

 

[Der Alte]

@tonychanyt @Clare73
The rich man in Luke 16 was dead but he could experience pain and he certainly did not have the holy spirit. and Abraham said he could not leave the place he was in. Jesus said "death" 17 times so when He meant death He said death. When Jesus said punishment He did not mean death.
The rich man disobeyed a specific commandment.

Deuteronomy 15:7
(7) If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:​

Lazarus did not even get the crumbs from the rich man's table.

 

[tonychanyt]

Jesus said "death" 17 times

Where precisely?

so when He meant death He said death.

Right. Define what Jesus meant by death.

 

[Der Alte]

Where precisely?
Right. Define what Jesus meant by death.

I have been using E-Sword a free Bible program for at least 20 years. It has a word search feature but since you seem to not have such ability I will humor you.

Matthew 10:21
(21) And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Matthew 15:4
(4) For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.​

Mat 10:21, Mat 15:4, Mat 16:28, Mat 20:18, Mat 26:38, Mar 7:10, Mar 9:1, Mar 10:33, Mar 13:12, Mar 14:34, Luk 9:27, Luk 18:33, Luk 21:16, Joh 5:24, Joh 8:51, Joh 11:4,

 

[tonychanyt]

I have been using E-Sword a free Bible program for at least 20 years. It has a word search feature but since you seem to not have such ability I will humor you.

Matthew 10:21​

(21) And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.​

Matthew 15:4​

(4) For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.​

Mat 10:21, Mat 15:4, Mat 16:28, Mat 20:18, Mat 26:38, Mar 7:10, Mar 9:1, Mar 10:33, Mar 13:12, Mar 14:34, Luk 9:27, Luk 18:33, Luk 21:16, Joh 5:24, Joh 8:51, Joh 11:4,

Thanks for the verse reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
3. Be concise and to the point.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it.

 

[Clare73]

verse?

Man is composed of body, soul and spirit (Heb 4:13, 2 Co 5:1-10).

All spirits are immortal; i.e., the divine, angelic and human.
When our spirits depart our bodies at death, they will be with Christ (2 Co 5:1-9) until the resurrection, when they will return to their glorified bodies.

 

[tonychanyt]

Man is composed of body, soul and spirit (Heb 4:13, 2 Co 5:1-10).

All spirits are immortal; i.e., the divine, angelic and human.
When our spirits depart our bodies at death, they will be with Christ (2 Co 5:1-9) until the resurrection, when they will return to their glorified bodies.

Thanks for the verse reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
3. Be concise and to the point.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it.

 

[Clare73]

Thanks for the verse reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
3. Be concise and to the point.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it.

1. Didn't quote any text.
2. The key word was the only point.
3. I was.