Eternal Companions in Heaven

[DragonFox91]

Thanks for sharing. I'll have to check the videos out. I did read the article. I have heard in the past what Jesus is talking about is the 'transactional' marriage that it was considered (and still is really even to this day) is done.

I do trust God there is marriage on the New Earth.

But a proper warning needs to go up: If there is no marriage, that is good too - b/c God is good - & we should also not put it as a foundational hope.

I also think it's sinful for the brethren to throw up their hands & say 'God won't give me a marriage here, so I'll wait for the resurrection.' No! That is also doubting the goodness of God.

 

[Jamdoc]

I have come to a realization in scripture.

Isaiah 65

17 “For behold, I create new heavens
and a new earth,
and the former things shall not be remembered
or come into mind.

First off, this is a new Earth passage, not a millennial kingdom passage as is often taught

18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in that which I create;
for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy,
and her people to be a gladness.

The idea that the only thing we rejoice over is praising God, is false. God wants to re-make the Earth good and to be enjoyed by its inhabitants, and God Himself will be rejoicing in the midst of it. This is the New Jerusalem that is being referred to, the new Earth, the new Eden.

19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem
and be glad in my people;
no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping
and the cry of distress.
20 No more shall there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,
for the young man shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoy[c] the work of their hands.

Reminiscent of Revelation 21 and 22, no more pain, no more sorrow, no more death. People misinterpret verse 20 as being about the Millennial Kingdom since it mentions death, but it's only the accursed who die (the second death).

Now here comes the important verse relevant to this topic:

23 They shall not labor in vain
or bear children for calamity,[d]
for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the Lord,
and their descendants with them.

This is a direct reversal of the curse on Eve from Genesis 3. The pain and sorrow of childbirth goes away, no longer born into a cursed world, and no longer painful and an ordeal to go through.... but there will be children, descendents of the offspring of the blessed of the Lord (Jesus). Children born on the New Earth will be blessed, no longer subject to curse, or sin, or death, and they will know the Lord and have a right relationship with Him from the day they are born.

24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are yet speaking I will hear.

What speaks to me here is in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus saying to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you. Most people think it's about just getting saved and then God will provide all your needs. But that's not it at all. This world is cursed still, we are thankful for what the Lord does supply but it is NOTHING
NOTHING like the Providence that the Lord intends.
This is a CURSED world and by the sweat of our brow do we eat bread.
But on the New Earth, Jesus gives with open hands, like in Eden, God provided everything. Think Romans 8:32, Many people say, that Jesus IS the reward that all we get is just the ability to see Jesus and fall on our face and worship and that's total fulfillment.
and having a right relationship with Jesus is the primary reward, true, but God provides WITH Him, all things freely. Look through the promises made in Revelation 2 and 3, the promises made in Revelation 21, that he who overcomes shall inherit ALL THINGS.
God becomes provider for all needs on the New Earth, not a trickle of Providence like we experience now, but both hands open, we rule WITH Jesus, not just serve Him. We serve and glorify Him by doing what our intended purpose, the reason why we were even created. To bear God's image and have dominion of the Earth with the Lord Jesus Christ.
We were not created to be a choir, we were created to be kings. It would dishonor God if those who He created in His image, did not act according to His image, and is God a choir singer? No. God is a ruler and provider. To be in His image is to rule as He would rule and to provide, as He provides to us.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together;
the lion shall eat straw like the ox,
and dust shall be the serpent's food.
They shall not hurt or destroy
in all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord.

This language, is all New Earth, it is a recreation of Eden, but perfected.

and in that New Earth, in that Edenic paradise of God, where God supplies every need, and we rule and reign with Jesus, there are children born.

So no, romantic love is not dead, procreation is not dead, relationships between men and women are not dead.
I do not know how it works, whether the relationships are redefined, or whether the covenant relationship between Christ and the Bride of Christ, all God's people, counts as covenant marriage between all of them, or whether the law on the New Earth is simply different when it comes to sexuality. Heaven and Earth pass away, and thus the fulfillment of the not one jot or one tittle comes to pass. The law on Eden didn't contain hundreds of precepts.. only one negative commandment, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and 1 positive commandment, to fill the Earth and subdue it, and have dominion of it, so yes laws may be different.

But what is clear, is that marriage as we know of now, passes away
but children are born on the New Earth and are blessed.

I suppose my best idea on it, is that Marriage, as it stands, creates a competing relationship for the one with God. In Genesis 3, Adam's sin was less eating of the tree, and more listening to his wife rather than God. Eve was deceived, Adam willingly chose to die with his wife, than live with God without her.
and so having 1 single person in that close of a relationship might be unbalanced. I couldn't say for sure.

But no we won't all be celibate eunuchs for eternity. that much I have a conviction of.

 

[timewerx]

But a proper warning needs to go up: If there is no marriage, that is good too - b/c God is good - & we should also not put it as a foundational hope.

I agree I often have dreams of the New Earth. Not one sexual encounter. But it's so fun and happy there, sex doesn't seem to matter anymore. Not in my mind in there. Even one lovely woman in there who looked like a supermodel invited me (and just the two of us) to watch her display her supernatural abilities. I suppose it's some kind of a date but No feelings of lust. It was all innocent and fun.

 

[Jamdoc]

I agree I often have dreams of the New Earth. Not one sexual encounter. But it's so fun and happy there, sex doesn't seem to matter anymore. Not in my mind in there. Even one lovely woman in there who looked like a supermodel invited me (and just the two of us) to watch her display her supernatural abilities. I suppose it's some kind of a date but No feelings of lust. It was all innocent and fun.

Your dreams aren't scripture

and it's a good thing too.
your handshakes and sidehugs only level intimacy version of "heaven" is like hell without fire to me.

 

[DragonFox91]

I have come to a realization in scripture.

Isaiah 65

First off, this is a new Earth passage, not a millennial kingdom passage as is often taught

The idea that the only thing we rejoice over is praising God, is false. God wants to re-make the Earth good and to be enjoyed by its inhabitants, and God Himself will be rejoicing in the midst of it. This is the New Jerusalem that is being referred to, the new Earth, the new Eden.

Reminiscent of Revelation 21 and 22, no more pain, no more sorrow, no more death. People misinterpret verse 20 as being about the Millennial Kingdom since it mentions death, but it's only the accursed who die (the second death).

Now here comes the important verse relevant to this topic:


This is a direct reversal of the curse on Eve from Genesis 3. The pain and sorrow of childbirth goes away, no longer born into a cursed world, and no longer painful and an ordeal to go through.... but there will be children, descendents of the offspring of the blessed of the Lord (Jesus). Children born on the New Earth will be blessed, no longer subject to curse, or sin, or death, and they will know the Lord and have a right relationship with Him from the day they are born.



What speaks to me here is in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus saying to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you. Most people think it's about just getting saved and then God will provide all your needs. But that's not it at all. This world is cursed still, we are thankful for what the Lord does supply but it is NOTHING
NOTHING like the Providence that the Lord intends.
This is a CURSED world and by the sweat of our brow do we eat bread.
But on the New Earth, Jesus gives with open hands, like in Eden, God provided everything. Think Romans 8:32, Many people say, that Jesus IS the reward that all we get is just the ability to see Jesus and fall on our face and worship and that's total fulfillment.
and having a right relationship with Jesus is the primary reward, true, but God provides WITH Him, all things freely. Look through the promises made in Revelation 2 and 3, the promises made in Revelation 21, that he who overcomes shall inherit ALL THINGS.
God becomes provider for all needs on the New Earth, not a trickle of Providence like we experience now, but both hands open, we rule WITH Jesus, not just serve Him. We serve and glorify Him by doing what our intended purpose, the reason why we were even created. To bear God's image and have dominion of the Earth with the Lord Jesus Christ.
We were not created to be a choir, we were created to be kings. It would dishonor God if those who He created in His image, did not act according to His image, and is God a choir singer? No. God is a ruler and provider. To be in His image is to rule as He would rule and to provide, as He provides to us.



This language, is all New Earth, it is a recreation of Eden, but perfected.

and in that New Earth, in that Edenic paradise of God, where God supplies every need, and we rule and reign with Jesus, there are children born.

So no, romantic love is not dead, procreation is not dead, relationships between men and women are not dead.
I do not know how it works, whether the relationships are redefined, or whether the covenant relationship between Christ and the Bride of Christ, all God's people, counts as covenant marriage between all of them, or whether the law on the New Earth is simply different when it comes to sexuality. Heaven and Earth pass away, and thus the fulfillment of the not one jot or one tittle comes to pass. The law on Eden didn't contain hundreds of precepts.. only one negative commandment, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and 1 positive commandment, to fill the Earth and subdue it, and have dominion of it, so yes laws may be different.

But what is clear, is that marriage as we know of now, passes away
but children are born on the New Earth and are blessed.

I suppose my best idea on it, is that Marriage, as it stands, creates a competing relationship for the one with God. In Genesis 3, Adam's sin was less eating of the tree, and more listening to his wife rather than God. Eve was deceived, Adam willingly chose to die with his wife, than live with God without her.
and so having 1 single person in that close of a relationship might be unbalanced. I couldn't say for sure.

But no we won't all be celibate eunuchs for eternity. that much I have a conviction of.

Good post. I agree, tho if we are wrong, God is good.

Your dreams aren't scripture

and it's a good thing too.
your handshakes and sidehugs only level intimacy version of "heaven" is like hell without fire to me.

I'd be careful of that language.

I agree I often have dreams of the New Earth. Not one sexual encounter. But it's so fun and happy there, sex doesn't seem to matter anymore. Not in my mind in there. Even one lovely woman in there who looked like a supermodel invited me (and just the two of us) to watch her display her supernatural abilities. I suppose it's some kind of a date but No feelings of lust. It was all innocent and fun.

I expect that's the other thing. It's there, but it's just not quite so important.

This is my last post in this thread for now. This isn't a topic I feel comfortable with. Thanks

 

[Jamdoc]

Good post. I agree, tho if we are wrong, God is good.


I'd be careful of that language.


I expect that's the other thing. It's there, but it's just not quite so important.

This is my last post in this thread for now. This isn't a topic I feel comfortable with. Thanks

I say that language because that's the most common displays of affection within the church, handshakes, and side hugs. But they are gestures that are deliberately to limit intimacy between people. A handshake is to keep a person at arm's distance, and a sidehug is to hug with the least amount of contact possible.

People see intimacy as some sort of half sin, even in a covenant relationship, like it's something dirty and shameful.

But it is something beautiful that God created and blessed.

It, just like anything else God has given us that has been good, has been corrupted by us. But it is not dirty or profane in itself as God created it.
It was created as a way for 2 people to selflessly give themselves to another, focusing on making the other person happy, while their partner focused on them. Mutual giving. But man turns it into selfish taking only. That's what makes it dirty, is our sinful nature, not what God created and said was good, and Paul said was honorable in all and the bed undefiled.

 

[timewerx]

I expect that's the other thing. It's there, but it's just not quite so important.

This is my last post in this thread for now. This isn't a topic I feel comfortable with. Thanks

I like the post you wrote earlier (literally). There may be two outcomes. Both pleasant nevertheless.

Because we live in a world with corrupted philosophy, there's a chance our own philosophy is corrupted the same way in our concept of happiness, fulfillment, etc.

If we enter the New Earth then this corruption is gone so the same things we may be craving now may no longer make us happy in the New Earth. We may not understand now because we still have this corrupt philosophy. I suppose we just trust God and you're right, forget about this topic, it isn't that important.

 

[Jamdoc]

I like the post you wrote earlier (literally). There may be two outcomes. Both pleasant nevertheless.

Because we live in a world with corrupted philosophy, there's a chance our own philosophy is corrupted the same way in our concept of happiness, fulfillment, etc.

If we enter the New Earth then this corruption is gone so the same things we may be craving now may no longer make us happy in the New Earth. We may not understand now because we still have this corrupt philosophy. I suppose we just trust God and you're right, forget about this topic, it isn't that important.

The thing is God created sexuality before the fall and in His original creation where things were the way HE wanted them to be. So sexuality and intimacy themselves, are not corrupt, and they are supposed to be gifts from God to be valued (but properly, just as food, and everything else He gives us)
People act like it was a result of the fall, like it's impure, but God's idea of it wasn't at all, it was pure, beautiful, and I would say innocent the way God created it. That was a word you used in your previous post that got to me. The idea that sexuality in itself is not innocent. The way it is now? perhaps not, especially not in the right context. But as God created it and it was intended to be? It was innocent. Adam and Eve were intended to enjoy each other and have lots of children in the garden and fill the Earth... and it would have been innocent, and pure.
We've never experienced what God intended sexuality to be, or childbirth, we only know the post fall, sin nature corrupted version.

I am believing that we will actually know what God intended through the original creation on the New Earth.
and it will be pure
and it will be innocent
and the offspring will be blessed.

Here's another thing. Many of the laws God gave us, are not exactly the ideal that God had in mind, but are concessions God makes in response to our sin nature. Think about Jesus on divorce in Matthew 19. The law of Moses gave precepts for how to properly do a divorce, Jesus did not say that God's ideal had divorce, quite the opposite, Jesus went back to Genesis 2 and painted the picture of God's ideal, and then explained that God suffered the precepts for divorce because of the hardness of our hearts. Many laws were made as concessions to the fall of the Earth, that were not necessary prior to its fall, and some will not be necessary after the Restoration of all things. Such as which meats are clean and which ones are not clean. No meat was eaten until after the flood, so the ideal is.. no eating meat. But God first declared all animals to be food for us, but then when the tribes of Israel were wandering God designated some meats clean and some meats not clean for the Israelites, while not putting those same laws on gentiles. Then after Jesus was resurrected, God made all things clean again (Acts 10, 1 Timothy 4), and in the New Earth, there will be no more death, and so people won't eat meat anymore there too unless God is doing some thing like steak trees or something.

The ideal is Eden, the laws given to us are largely for our own good in a cursed world, but will be different on a New Earth with no curse.... which would be the ideal world again. Consider that.

 

[RileyG]

In heaven we will see God face to face and that will be enough!

 

[Jamdoc]

In heaven we will see God face to face and that will be enough!

God didn't think so in the garden and Jesus didn't seem to think so on Earth when He listed 2 great commandments,
Love God, and love others. So just loving God alone, is not enough by God's own standards.