Originally posted by eldermike
Mis Shelby,
With all due respect, the verse begins with "My Sheep", He owns them, purchased with His blood. We are not ours, We are His. It's not an instruction to us, it's an ownership certificate of His.
Blessings
what a wonderful way to try to reconcile the obvious. But Paul wasn't writing to people who knew everyting about grafting so that means that we must take the scipture at face value rather than try to read more into it, or make it fit our doctrine. The scripture says a branch can be removed if it does not remain in God's kindness.Originally posted by eldermike
When you graft a branch into a vine they become one, it's no longer vine and branch it's all the same thing. When you prune off a branch that is not producing fruit you do not remove the graft. The graft is part of the vine as long as there is a vine. In fact, the base of the graft can grow another branch. When this was written grafting was understood. Every graft that has has produced a knot in the vine that will always be there, even if the branch is not producing.
Originally posted by LouisBooth
"In english the word "you"can be singular or plural. In this case it is plural. You've got to look at content. And remember you third grade grammer.
"
I did, that is ALSO why I showed that the church will never and has never been disobendient, thus he was talking to individuals. Next time read my whole post snup
Originally posted by SnuP
A good example is Romans 11:13-24. Paul says that we as gentiles must continue in God's kindness, otherwise we will be cut of after we had been grafted in.
Originally posted by SnuP
Remember that Rom. 11 is specifically refering to the mercy of God being given to the gentiles by the jews disobedience. To say that it is refering to individuals in a church is to take the scripture completely out of context.
All of chapter 11 is about the Jews and the Gentiles.
what a wonderful way to try to reconcile the obvious. But Paul wasn't writing to people who knew everyting about grafting so that means that we must take the scipture at face value rather than try to read more into it, or make it fit our doctrine. The scripture says a branch can be removed if it does not remain in God's kindness.
Originally posted by SnuP
Romans11:
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they (the Jews) are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God'd gifts and his call (His promises to the patriarchs about Isreal) are irrevocable. 30 Just as you (the gentiles) who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their (the Jews) disobedience, 31 so they (the Jews) too have now become disobedient in order that they (the Jews) too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you(the gentiles). 32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Louis the first two verbs hear and follow happens before the Father gives anything. And they shall never perish as long as they continue to hear and follow"
*sigh* no no, you're not looking at the whole passage. The sheep follow no one else, only christ. That much is certain from that passage, so if you're following something else, you're not a christian in the first place.
YOu can't give it up Miss, and I'm happy to tell ya that
Originally posted by LouisBooth
*sigh* no no, you're not looking at the whole passage. The sheep follow no one else, only christ. That much is certain from that passage, so if you're following something else, you're not a christian in the first place. YOu can't give it up Miss, and I'm happy to tell ya that
But if you ABIDE in God, you cannot sin. 1Jn3:6-9 plainly says so. Did John mean what he said? Or, was John operating on a deeper meaning, supported in his 2nd letter, 2:1:7-9, which seems to indicate that abiding is a choice?You can't help but abide in God if you are a christian, and if not, that's where grace comes in. Check out Romans...
Was Judas ever saved? Was he ever, "of the elect"???I don't know, ask the people that God said, "I never knew you." to, or Judas.
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