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Eteral life is impossible to retract.

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by DaveKerwin, Sep 6, 2002.

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  1. DaveKerwin

    DaveKerwin Represent the Most High

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    I posted this in a different thread, I thought it was interesting. I guess Logic class was worthwhile after all :) Offer constructive criticism if you like. Comment if you like. Tell me I am bad at logic if you like ;)
    Anyways, this is it.


    • 1. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
    • 2. for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:29)
    • 3. eternal life is a gift from God (premise 1)
    • 4. gifts from God are irrevocable / impossible to retract (premise 2)
    • 5. Therefore, eternal life is impossible to retract.
     
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  2. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    Isn't logic fun
     
  3. Ben johnson

    Ben johnson Legend Supporter

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    &#149 6. Eternal life is impossible for God to retract; but does that remove the possibility that it can be rejected?

    "If we died with Him, we shall also live with Him; if we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us (and we will NOT reign); if we are faithless, He remains faithful (even though we perish from faithlessness); for He cannot deny Himself." 2Tiim2:11-13

    "Confess Me before men, I will also confess you before My Father in Heaven; but DENY Me before men, I will also deny you before My Father in Heaven." Matt10:32-33

    "You are DEAD. Wake up and strengthen the things that remain but that are about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. Remember what you have received and heard, and keep it and repent. If you will NOT wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know that hour I come. You have a few people who have not soiled their garments, and THEY will walk with Me in white, for THEY are worthy. He who overcomes thus (as THEY did), shall likewise be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot his name from the book of Life, and I will confess His name before My Father and His angels". Rev3:1-5
     
  4. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Luke 12:45-47 But if that servant says in his heart,' My master is delaying his coming ,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk {46} "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. {47} "And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."

    Michelle
     
  5. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

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    Yea, but you haven't received the gift yet.
     
  6. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    sorry, two posts.

     
     
  7. DaveKerwin

    DaveKerwin Represent the Most High

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    You will see me in heaven.
     
  8. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
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    My sister gave me two gift cerificates. She gave the gift, I just haven't received the goods yet. I have the gift, but it isn't fulfilled yet.

    So with eternal life. I have the gift from God, but not the fulfilment of it yet.
     
  9. \o/

    \o/ Member

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    Immortality will be given to mortals at the 2nd coming of Christ.

    Until shortly before Jesus ceases His intercession as High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary and blots out the record of sins symbolized by the atonement on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), the general population (living) have NOT been found WORTHY of eternal life.

     

    LUKE 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
     
  10. \o/

    \o/ Member

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    There is a judgment that takes (is taking?) place now in Heaven that decides our destiny.

    Our destiny is not decided by a one-time decision that was made years ago.  

     
    See Rev 11:18.
     
  11. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    In accordance with the context of romans in chapter 10, just as all isreal will be saved, regardless, so will the church. :) For in election we call them brothers and sisters.
     
  12. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    :)

    Not really, heaven is not a place I want to be. I'll be quite content to be part of these heartwarming promises.

    Psalm 37:10,11; 29. And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;  And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.

    Micah 4:3-4 They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.  And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken [it].

    Matthew 5:5 Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

    Revelation 21:2-4 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
     
  13. DaveKerwin

    DaveKerwin Represent the Most High

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    Perhaps I should rephrase : I will be there without you.

    Does anyone have a legit attack to this argument ???????
     
  14. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
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    As I said, you do not have this gift yet so don’t count your chickens as they say.

    The apostle Paul wrote regarding his hope of attaining the said gift of immortal life in the heavens. He clearly did not already consider himself as having it yet.

    Phil 3:12-14 Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pursuing to see if I may also lay hold on that for which I have also been laid hold on by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having laid hold on [it]; but there is one thing about it: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.
     
  15. DaveKerwin

    DaveKerwin Represent the Most High

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    LightBearer, lets try this one again shall we ??


    Philippians 3:10-21

    "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. "

    Pressing on Toward the Goal

    "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
    All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
    Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you. For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. "



    1. Paul has not attained perfection yet, neither have I.
    2. Paul presses on heavenward, so do I.
    3. Paul tells us to live up to what we have ALREADY attained (God's gift of eternal life).
    4. Our citizenship is in heaven. My citizenship is in heaven. I am not trying to get my visa to get there, that is where I was made for, that is where I am a citizen of, and that is where I will be.
    5. God will transform us. We will share in his ressurection.

    I have full confidence, no doubt at all, that I will be in heaven when God calls. My trust is in Christ.

    Now, back to topic, does anyone say God's gift of eternal live is revocable ?
     
  16. Slave2SinNoMore

    Slave2SinNoMore Active Member

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    Lightbearer, we as Christians do indeed have eternal life at this moment. It is not something we will get. It is something we have bveen given already. I'll show you the verses after I respond to this verse.

    My version (New King James) does not read "...not that I have already received it..." The New King James says "Not that I have already attained" There is no "it" in the NKJ version.

    But anyway, he is not talking about eternal life here. he is talking about his goal of being like Christ.

    If Christians do not have eternal life already, why did Jesus Himself say the following:

    “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.” (John 5:24) (notice the past tense of "crossing over from death to life and the present tense of "has eternal life".

    and John tells us:

    "Whoever believes in Him [Jesus] is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's only begotten Son." John 3:18 (again, notice the present tense)

    and

    "The witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you
    who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:11-13).

    The way I see it, it' simple. We have eternal life now.

    Becoming a Christian isn't just simply "receiving God's help". It is being reborn, regenerated. New nature. New spirit. Holy Spirit living with in you. Sin nature crucified. These things can not be reversed.

    The new seed in the Christian cannot go bad. It cannot be corrupted:

    “…having been regenerated, not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible” (1 Peter 1:23)
     
  17. prodigal

    prodigal Member

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    Of course it is. "In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps." Proverbs 16:9
     
  18. \o/

    \o/ Member

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    Matthew 5:22 "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever (DaveKerwin) says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Matthew 7:19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire...21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven...23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

    Matthew 10:22 "…But he who endures to the end will be saved…

    Matthew 10:33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

    Matthew 12:36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

    Matthew 13:41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 "and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 22:8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 'Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.' 10 "So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 "So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. 13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

    Matthew 25:14 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man…who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them...19 "After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them...22 "He also who had received two talents came and said, 'Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them...23 "His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord...24 "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 'And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.' 26 "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed...30 'And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

    Luke 9:62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

    Luke 10:25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 26 He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" 27 So he answered and said, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.' " 28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

    Luke 12:45 "But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 "And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

    Luke 13:9 'And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "

    John 5:29 "and come forth -- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

    John 15:2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away….

    Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified…) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

    Romans 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

    2 Thessalonians 1:5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

    2 Thessalonians 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Hebrews 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

    Hebrews 5:9 …He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

    James 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

    James 2:12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

    James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

    James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

    1 John 2:17 …he who does the will of God abides forever.

    Revelation 2:7 "…To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life…."

    Revelation 2:10 "…Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

    Revelation 2:11 "…He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."

    Revelation 2:26 "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations --

    Revelation 3:4 "You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

    Revelation 3:5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

    Revelation 3:11 "…I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

    Revelation 3:21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne….

    Revelation 19:7 "… the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready." 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

    Revelation 21:7 "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God….

    Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
     
  19. DaveKerwin

    DaveKerwin Represent the Most High

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    ok folks, back on topic now.

    who believes eternal life is revocable?
     
  20. Slave2SinNoMore

    Slave2SinNoMore Active Member

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    I don't.

    In your original post in this thread, you did a great job of adding points to come up with the truth. If you will allow me, I will add my own equation.

    Point 1: Christ says that a believer has Eternal life now. Eternal life is given to those who believe and are regenerated (have become born again)

    +

    Point 2: A Christian is regenerated of incorruptible seed (it cannot go bad - the new nature cannot reverse itself and become the sin nature again):

    “…having been regenerated, not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible" ( 1 Peter 1:23)

    =

    Therefore, since eternal life starts when a person believes, and that person has been regenerated of incorruptible seed, then that person's eternal life cannot be corrupted (go bad) either.

    For a Christian, eternal life is now and irrevocable.
     
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