Escaping the Great Tribulation?

[Straightshot]

Wrong

The 6th seal is a portent [preview] of the same earthquake in Revelation 8

The actual judgment events do not begin until chapter 8 containing the quake

The sequence .... [Revelation 14:7] [Revelation 14:8]

Revelation is not written exact chronological sequence as you seem to think, but repeats events on the same subjects as the narrative moves forward

If you do not learn this prophetic prose you will not render the prophetic scriptures correctly .... all of the prophets do it .... repeating with more details given

 

[Luke17:37]

Okay, you are right, you and straight shot are right on what the day of the LORD is.... so we can put all armors down, no one is going to get hurt. We are just saying, whichever day of the LORD is, including the days of the LORD's wrath they will involve all Christians, whether a gentile or a Hebrew and they will all be in the same boat. The LORD will not declare his days of vengeance against his own but against the sinful world.

The world is coming to an end and we need to stop this back and forth on everything. The time of Noah's flood has been beckoning for an audience for a very long time. The World has been longing to give birth to a powerful economy that would rule with a Unitarian thumb rule. I don't think it's debatable because hey! the world is too engrossed on power and everyone is competing on who will get ahead of who. So like rational human beings, we all know someone will get in someone's way. The question is, when? That I could have told you confidently if I knew it, but is just my instincts are kinda flipping to the edge of a radio wave and I can't place my finger on what's up really. All I know, (if there's a catholic here) I would tell them your mother is up to no GOOD. But anyway, I didn't like the idea of conspiracy theories, I just have my concerns from placing too many two and twos together. I also have faith that the Holy Spirit has never lied so I will give this instinct a shot, there are times it's the least you can do.

So if Hurricane Sandy caught guys unawares don't let this one catch you off-guard! good LUCK!!!

Check out 2 Thessalonians 1-2, Matthew 24-25 (especially the parables such as the 10 virgins), and Revelation 11 (seventh trumpet). What happens to a person when Jesus appears depends on whether a person really knows Him or not. It's a horrible day for the deceived and a good day for those who fear God.

Revelation 11:18
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

 

[Riberra]

"It is in the plan of God that the Christians will be overcome by the beast"


The tribulation Christians only .... those who will become Christians during the tribulation [Revelation 6:9-10; 13:7; 14:13]

Every Christians alive (including you and me if alive) at the time will be The tribulation Christians.

Nobody will be raptured before the tribulation because the Church (body of Christ)is not the restrainer of the man of Sin. see post 693 page 35

 

[Riberra]

Wrong

The 6th seal is a portent [preview] of the same earthquake in Revelation 8

The actual judgment events do not begin until chapter 8 containing the quake

The sequence .... [Revelation 14:7] [Revelation 14:8]

The 144,000 are sealed for protection in Revelation 7 because the events of the 6th seal announce that the time is come for the tribulation to begin.
The earthquake in Revelation 8 is not the Great Earthquake of the 6th seal but a secondary earthquake following the big one of the 6th seal as it is always the case after a big earthquake.

 

[Revealing Times]

Okay, you are right, you and straight shot are right on what the day of the LORD is.... so we can put all armors down, no one is going to get hurt. We are just saying, whichever day of the LORD is, including the days of the LORD's wrath they will involve all Christians, whether a gentile or a Hebrew and they will all be in the same boat. The LORD will not declare his days of vengeance against his own but against the sinful world.

The world is coming to an end and we need to stop this back and forth on everything. The time of Noah's flood has been beckoning for an audience for a very long time. The World has been longing to give birth to a powerful economy that would rule with a Unitarian thumb rule. I don't think it's debatable because hey! the world is too engrossed on power and everyone is competing on who will get ahead of who. So like rational human beings, we all know someone will get in someone's way. The question is, when? That I could have told you confidently if I knew it, but is just my instincts are kinda flipping to the edge of a radio wave and I can't place my finger on what's up really. All I know, (if there's a catholic here) I would tell them your mother is up to no GOOD. But anyway, I didn't like the idea of conspiracy theories, I just have my concerns from placing too many two and twos together. I also have faith that the Holy Spirit has never lied so I will give this instinct a shot, there are times it's the least you can do.

So if Hurricane Sandy caught guys unawares don't let this one catch you off-guard! good LUCK!!!

I only put all of that in one place because I had never seen it done, so I figured why not set up a reference guide. We have a wee bit disagreement, it seems. I do not think Christians will be on earth be it Messianic or Gentile Christians. The Rapture happens first, then we are in Heaven for 7 years marrying Christ, and at the mid-way point the Wrath of God breaks out.

I agree, the world is working towards a one size fits all government, so they can control everyone, but I will not be here, nor will my Christian brothers. The Beast will not be the RCC and I despise it hierarchy, it just doesn't add up.

But the Anti-Christ is alive today. We should be ready no doubt, at any moment.

 

[Revealing Times]

The great earthquake of the 6th seal at the beginning of the tribulation ,will come long before the destruction of"great city Babylon" MBG.

One rule about the First Resurrection of the believers
It will happen at the same time that Revelation 20:4-6 which is after the tribulation.

What is "Babylon" ? Is it a City ? No, is it a Nation ? No........what is it ? It represents the last Beast System, or Government System that tries to rule without God. It is not the Harlot.

 

[Riberra]

I do not think Christians will be on earth be it Messianic or Gentile Christians. The Rapture happens first, then we are in Heaven for 7 years

What makes you believe that you will be raptured in Heaven for 7 years, can you show only one Bible verse where it is written ?

 

[Revealing Times]

Every Christians alive (including you and me if alive) at the time will be The tribulation Christians.

Nobody will be raptured before the tribulation because the Church (body of Christ)is not the restrainer of the man of Sin. see post 693 page 35

This is true, but the Church is the REASON, the Restrainer (Holy Spirit) restrains the Man of Sin from coming forth. Its simple, its 1 + 1 logic here. Why does the Church keep the Man of sin from coming forward until his time, is right/correct ?

Jesus said the Gospel must be preached unto all the World, and then the End will come. So the Holy Spirit will not/can not allow the Satan to bring forth his Man of Sin/Anti-Christ/Little Horn, UNTIL the Churches business is finished. It is all contingent upon the Church preaching the Gospel unto all the world. So Paul was saying, you know what withholdeth or what holds/bars the Anti-Christ from coming forth, for I have told you this before.

It is simple, If we HAVE TO PREACH the Gospel unto all the world, the that's what is the hold up.And we are nigh doing just that.

 

[Revealing Times]

What makes you believe that you will be raptured in Heaven for 7 years, can you show only one Bible verse where it is written ?

Because it is evident, have you ever studied the Jewish Wedding Pattern ? http://www.luke810.com/wedpatt.htm

Revelation 19 clearly tells us that we Marry Jesus in Heaven, come back with Jesus Immediately after the Tribulation, on White Horses, where we defeat the Anti-Christ/Kings/Wicked men.-- Jewish Wedding Pattern #11 – The Bride and Groom go to the wedding chamber.
Jewish Wedding - The marriage was consummated in the wedding chamber. The Bride and Groom stayed in that wedding chamber for seven days. (I will give you a few of the Patterns below, in case you do not want to hit the link.

Daniels 70th Week is to turn Israel back to God and to Judge the wicked world.

The steps of the traditional Jewish wedding:

1 – Selection of the Bride
Jewish Wedding - The Son chooses the Bride – the Father makes the arrangements
Church - John 15:16 – “You did not choose Me, but I chose you . . .”

2 – The Bride Price established
Jewish Wedding - The father of the bride must be reimbursed for the loss of his daughter.
Church - I Corinthians 6:20 - “For you were bought with a price.” The Bride price was paid when Jesus died on the Cross.

5 – The Bride must consent
Jewish Wedding – This is not entirely an arranged marriage; the bride must agree.
Church – “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;” (Mark 16:16) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

6 – The Bridal Gift and the Cup of the Covenant
Jewish Wedding – A glass of wine is taken upon the signing of the contract.
Church – Each time we gather around the Lord’s Table, we remember the “contract.” “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28)

Jewish Wedding – The Bride is given a gift by the groom.
Church - The Holy Spirit is given by Jesus –– “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38) This, of course, occurred on the Day of Pentecost.

8 – The Groom would prepare a room for the Bride in his father’s house
Church - John 14:3 – “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself.”

The father of the groom determines when the room is ready. The groom does not determine the time of the wedding. “But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:36)

10 – The Groom returns with a shout, “Behold, the bridegroom comes!”
Church - First Thessalonians 4:16 – “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.”

11 – The Bride and Groom go to the wedding chamber.
Church – This period when the Bride and Groom spend time together seems to show that the Bride of Jesus will be with Him in Heaven. This appears to indicate a pre-Tribulation gathering of the Church, and is described in Isaiah 26:20; “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.” Praise the Lord!

12 – The Marriage Supper
Church – “‘Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.’ And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, ‘Write: Blessed [are] those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” (The Revelation 19:7-9)

 

[Douggg]

We're talking about the physical vs spiritual

No, I am not. I am talking about bible prophecy, eschatology. Jews, Israel, are all in it.... because God says so.

.

 

[Straightshot]

"The earthquake in Revelation 8 is not the Great Earthquake of the 6th seal but a secondary earthquake following the big one of the 6th seal as it is always the case after a big earthquake."


Same quake RB

Like I said, Revelation 6:12-17 is portent of the tribulation to come [conditions upon the earth].... all of the seals are previews ......... then the tribulation events begin in chapter 8

If you don't get this you will not render Revelation correctly

The 7 judgment trumpets herald the tribulation events

The first 4 in rapid fire .... then the next 2 .... then the 7th will begin sounding toward the end of the tribulation which will include the 7 cluster judgments [7 thunders] upon the kingdom of the beast and his followers related to the battle of Armageddom

 

[Luke17:37]

We have a wee bit disagreement, it seems. I do not think Christians will be on earth be it Messianic or Gentile Christians. The Rapture happens first, then we are in Heaven for 7 years marrying Christ, and at the mid-way point the Wrath of God breaks out.

But the Anti-Christ is alive today. We should be ready no doubt, at any moment.

Just a wee bit of disagreement, you say? The foolish virgins have just a wee bit less oil than the wise, but a wee bit can make a big difference in the midnight hour. Let us each prepare for a long wait.

 

[Douggg]

The mystery of iniquity is Satan.The mystery of iniquity (Satan)was already at work when Jesus was born.In fact the mystery of iniquity (Satan) was at work since the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3).

The mystery of iniquity is the spirit of Antichrist.

So your idea that the Church (Christians) is the restrainer fall flat on your face.

I never said that Christians were the restrainer. "What witholdeth" that the man of sin might be revealed in his time,
is that Christians, called up in the rapture, have to be taken out of the world first.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

The restrainer is God the Father.
God the Father restrain Satan in its actions...

What does this say?

Matthew 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

.

 

[Straightshot]

"Just a wee bit of disagreement, you say? The foolish virgins have just a wee bit less oil than the wise, but a wee bit can make a big difference in the midnight hour. Let us each prepare for a long wait"


Actually those without oil and shut out have no oil .... these are the majority of the professing "church" who think they are saved and are not .... today's "church" is filled to the brim with the same [Matthew 25:1-13]

One either has oil, or they don't .... the oil represents the Lord's holy spirit .... you either have it or you don't .... no other way .... one is either saved [born again], or one is not

Here they are again .... listen to what the Lord tells them .... they will enter the tribulation with no oil [Revelation 3:15-20] .... unsaved .... just like the balance of humanity not saved

 

[Riberra]

This is true, but the Church is the REASON, the Restrainer (Holy Spirit) restrains the Man of Sin from coming forth. Its simple, its 1 + 1 logic here. Why does the Church keep the Man of sin from coming forward until his time, is right/correct ?

Jesus said the Gospel must be preached unto all the World, and then the End will come. So the Holy Spirit will not/can not allow the Satan to bring forth his Man of Sin/Anti-Christ/Little Horn, UNTIL the Churches business is finished. It is all contingent upon the Church preaching the Gospel unto all the world. So Paul was saying, you know what withholdeth or what holds/bars the Anti-Christ from coming forth, for I have told you this before.

It is simple, If we HAVE TO PREACH the Gospel unto all the world, the that's what is the hold up.And we are nigh doing just that.

The Church is not the restrainer

The mystery of iniquity is Satan.The mystery of iniquity (Satan)was already at work when Jesus was born.In fact the mystery of iniquity (Satan) was at work since the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3).

So your idea that the Church (Christians) is the restrainer fall flat on your face.

The restrainer is God the Father.
God the Father restrain Satan in its actions...
Satan's actions are allowed if it goes in line and timing with the plan of God.Example it was in the plan of God that Jesus will be put to death under the influence of Satan and his minions who were the scribes and high priests.

When the time will come to fulfill the prophecy about the man of sin /Antichrist/Beast,God will left his restrain on Satan's actions to fulfill that part of the prophecy in the appropriate time.

Mystery solved....

/What withhold/ is the power of God, until God decide that the time is come for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

 

[Riberra]

"


Same quake RB

Like I said, Revelation 6:12-17 is portent of the tribulation to come [conditions upon the earth].... all of the seals are previews ......... then the tribulation events begin in chapter 8
If you don't get this you will not render Revelation correctly

The seals are not a sneak preview of what is described in the scroll.
The seven seals must be removed before the events written in the scroll happen.
Each seals represents events who will happen before the 7 trumpets .

For example the First seal represent Jesus on a white horse and the spiritual conquest of Christianity.

Seal 5 represent the early Christians martyrs of the first century who must wait the martyrs of the last century before that God decide that it is time to avenge their blood.That phase of seal 5 is in progress right now ISIS is beheading the Christians of the last century.

 

[Straightshot]

You have much to discover RB .... the seals are a preview of the prevalent conditions that will exist during the coming tribulation .... the tribulation events begin in chapter 8 beginning with the 7 trumpet judgments

You are correct about the first seal .... the Lord will offer His salvation to those in the tribulation during the period

Here are the rest:

2 Widespread satanic and human warfare

3 Global economic collapse and famine

4 Massive human death

5 Those who will become believers during the tribulation and martyred for their faith

6 The Lord's judgments that will prevail during the tribulation and the human reaction to the same

7 A short period of silence just before the tribulation events begin in chapter 8


But just before the judgments begin to fall, the 144000 of Israel must be sealed for protection against the wiles of the tribulation in order to complete their mission [7:1-8; 14:1-7]

And the Lord's true immortal ecclesia of Revelation 3:10 and 18:4 are seen in heaven just before the tribulation begins and during the same

These are also seen in Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 11:1; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14

 

[Revealing Times]

The Church is not the restrainer

The mystery of iniquity is Satan.The mystery of iniquity (Satan)was already at work when Jesus was born.In fact the mystery of iniquity (Satan) was at work since the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3).

So your idea that the Church (Christians) is the restrainer fall flat on your face.

The restrainer is God the Father.
God the Father restrain Satan in its actions...
Satan's actions are allowed if it goes in line and timing with the plan of God.Example it was in the plan of God that Jesus will be put to death under the influence of Satan and his minions who were the scribes and high priests.

When the time will come to fulfill the prophecy about the man of sin /Antichrist/Beast,God will left his restrain on Satan's actions to fulfill that part of the prophecy in the appropriate time.

Mystery solved....

/What withhold/ is the power of God, until God decide that the time is come for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

You don't seem to be reading my quotes, because I said the Holy Spirit is the RESTRAINER, it restrains on behalf of the Church. {MY EXACT QUOTE......"This is true, but the Church is the REASON, the Restrainer (Holy Spirit) restrains the Man of Sin from coming forth." HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY INFER I SAID THE CHURCH WAS THE RESTRAINER !!! ? Its clear as day what I said.} The Restrainer is not God the Father, it is the Holy Spirit, He Restrains the Anti-Christ from coming forward until its HIS TIME. Because the Church will not be finished and ready to be Raptured, until she has preached the Gospel unto all the world.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? { Paul is telling the Thessalonians that he has already told them these things, WHAT THINGS ? This is why Epistles can be tricky, we have the Letters going one way many times. }

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. {And now we know what Restrains until it is taken out of the way. That is the Holy Spirit, it is blocking Satan because the Church has a mission that is not complete, upon completion the Church will be Raptured. Not understanding when the Rapture is pretty much throws everything out of whack.}

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

{ The Holy Spirit Restrains until it is time for the Rapture of the Church, mystery solved. }

 

[Riberra]

{ The Holy Spirit Restrains until it is time for the Rapture of the Church, mystery solved. }

The problem for the pre-trib theory is that the Holy Spirit was sent by God on Pentecost as a comforter for the believers ...The Holy Spirit will stay with the believers until the Coming of Jesus....because the rapture to meet Jesus in the air will happen at His Coming after the tribulation.

John 14:15-19
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

 

[Riberra]

You have much to discover RB .... the seals are a preview of the prevalent conditions that will exist during the coming tribulation ....

The SEVEN seals must be broken before you can read what is in the scroll.

The tribulation events begin in chapter 8 beginning with the 7 trumpet judgments

The setting for the events of the great tribulation will begin with the Great Earthquake of the 6th seal this is the trigger (Revelation 6:12-17)....thus the urgency to seal the 144,000 for protection Revelation 7(the sealing of the 144,000 is part of the 6th seal)---,....after that the 7th seal will be opened Revelation 8:1-6....after that will come the seven trumpets Judgement Revelation 8:7-13 ...

Revelation 8:1-6 (KJV)
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.