Escaping the Great Tribulation?

[miknik5]

Learn something .... if you can

Ezekiel
36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Now according to the above poster, those who believe this [Revelation 3:10], are just to hung upon the Lord's dealings with His nation of Israel

I don't think you know what you are talking about .... so you interpret the above scriptures for the forum and we will see what you are up to

And I want to see just how you refute the Lord's intents .... give it your best shot

And when you are finished I will ask you to interpret much more on this subject .... since you brought it up and have attempted to link the subject to your idea of standing against the Lord's promise to His true ecclesia [Revelation 3:10]

Learn something if I can?
Is this post directed at me?

Only if you agree with Ezekiel 34 first

Oh and John 10 and John 17 as well since there is only ONE SHEPHERD over One House/flock and that HE alone came to manifest the Fathers name

 

[Luke17:37]

If a Messianic Jew ever got the wind that you (SS) said, they will be subject to the great fall, I don't want to be around!!! Hebrews know Mashiach way better than you could ever think or possibly imagine. I have a feeling they will be subject to the persecutions under the times of the Gentiles and they are the one who will have seal of the Lamb... so please, with all due diligence don't ever mention Israel in such a goading context, they are the LORD's! PERIOD!

They rejected Go in the Flesh (Jesus) and 95 percent still do not accept Jesus, so I wouldn't say they know the Messiah that well at all. They were/are still looking for the Conquering King, but first they have to accept the Suffering Servant, and they will. As soon as the Rapture happens, Israel will put it together, all of these "Christians" bodies were left behind, and their bible said this would happen, they put off corruption, and put on incorruption in the twinkling of an eye. They will know Messiah, but they have to swallow their pride in desperation.

She's talking about Messianic Jews--the Jews who know the Messiah as their Lord and Savior. The "Rapture" (Resurrection-Gathering) is not going to happen before the Tribulation, or in the middle somewhere, because it violates Scripture. Gentile believers and Messianic Jews are going to be right alongside the Israelites who don't know Jesus and the Gentile unbelievers. All mankind alike who is alive, regardless of wealth or position in society (Isaiah 24:2, Revelation 3:10b) will experience the days of the Great Tribulation. If God is really pleased with someone, He can cause them to pass away early so they don't see these wicked, difficult days (Isaiah 57:1, Revelation 3:10a, Luke 21:36).

 

[Linet Kihonge]

How is the day of our LORD in anyway, GT???

Do you have a Bible? .... if so then you should read it

The day of the Lord
[Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5,30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5 Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:17; 16:14]
.

Yes, the day of the LORD's reckoning is what I saw, the day the LORD will ask mankind on who it shall serve. Everyone will be put to test, as quoted by Luke, Rev3 ["I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth."]

It goes further to say, "[I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it."]"

It's either the sealed or a church that will face an RIP prior Trib. and not raptured, if it's raptured then it's the church of Philadelphia that will be spared. If you are not the Church of Philadelphia, welcome to the Post-Tribulation Yankee Doolde

 

[Douggg]

Fair enough conclusion. But it won't be only Jews who miss the rapture. Other people will miss it because they are lazy, or proud, or greedy, or self righteous, or hypocrites; there's any number of reasons why people will miss the rapture. I'm still trying to figure out, from your argument, where you feel the need to make special mention of the Jews. How are they different to any other human being who, for one reason or another, rejects Jesus?

Salvation is the same for everyone.

As far as the Jews go, everything that is in the bible past, present, future - it is because God says so.

If this is true, then at least from God's perspective there is no respect to persons in how he decides who to gather, whether they have Israeli DNA or not, which again begs the question; why do people keep making a big deal about the Jews in the end time if being gathered together depends on faith in Jesus rather than correct DNA?

If you are talking about who will be gathered unto Christ in the rapture, only them who are born again will be taken.

I'm not sure if you've said it as clearly as straighshot, but his position appears to be that the Great Tribulation is specifically directed at unbelieving Jews and that it will be more than just tribulation; it will actually be wrath, which means there's more than just spanking for the sake of repentance happening; God's wrath is meant to destroy, not turn.

The great tribulation is part of the prosecution of Satan and wrestling the kingdoms of this world from his dominion and bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to the earth - God's Kingdom come... that you say in the Lord's prayer, is it not?

Jesus is the door; any one promoting any other way to be right with God is a thief and a liar, and that must include the idea that Jews can somehow still be right with God just because they have the correct DNA.

I don't know of anyone here ever making a claim that there is any other way than Jesus.

Anyway, it seems I've not got a clear understanding of how you see flesh Israel fitting into all of this, but based on your comments I get the impression that you believe their DNA is somehow still a significant part of prophecy. If that is the case, perhaps you can respond in a way which accounts for my comments so far. Thanks.

Israel is in the end time bible prophecies. The Antichrist cannot become the Antichrist - king of Israel - apart from there being an Israel, and the Jews thinking he is their king messiah. Jerusalem has to be in the hands of the Jews in order for the parable of the fig tree be come to pass. Jerusalem has to embrace Jesus, in order to say "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord". There has to be a temple built by the Jews and the daily sacrifice begun again, in order to the Antichrist to stop it.

When you identify Jews in terms of DNA, you are dehumanizing them. A Jew in Judaism is someone's who mother is a Jew. It is not a matter of looking under a microscope scientific structure of their blood, their DNA, but God's will and perogrative and love and promises made to them, and their forefathers, human beings. You are talking about families, mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, little babies. Not DNA.

We are all in the same boat, sinners in need of a savior, by the grace of God, not that we deserve it.

That God will save the Jews, Israel, through the Lord Jesus Christ because of His love - be thankful, for it is the same reason for which we are saved.

 

[Douggg]

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

It is extremely unlikely Paul would refer to Jesus as “what” when he refers to Christ by name in verses 1,2 & 8

No one is saying that Jesus is the what withholdeth. What withholideth is that the Christians will be raptured before the man of sin reveals himself in his time.

 

[Revealing Times]

Which churches do you go to??? How is the day of our LORD in anyway, GT??? Day of our LORD is when the first resurrection takes place and followed by everyone who'll be alive in Christ will be taken up!!! You make it come out like Jesus is somewhere passing toasts to GT tribulants and you also seem to be passing toasts of how you will be saved from the GT as the suffering unbelieving world is going through HELL!!! or Are you?

Are you kidding ? The Day of the Lord/Christ is a period of Judgment against the Wicked. A Seven Year Period of Daniels 70th Week followed by the 42 months period in the middle of this Seven Year Period which is the Day of the Lord. That is throughout the bible, on many places. Hey guys, I use this site, and then you can push CONTROL & F, and a search box opens, type in any phrase or word and it shows you how many tome it is in the bibles, and where it is at, and its highlighted, and you can scroll each verse by clicking the up and down button. AND is in the Bible 57,000 times or close to that and Day of the Lord is in it 31 times.
http://www.biblewordstudy.org/kjv-non-italicized.html

The Day of the LORD is a period of time, 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1260 days that will be Gods anger, vengeance or wrath against all the wicked that refuse to call upon His name and ask for grace. Those that love evil/wickedness will be utterly destroyed, as the scriptures below detail, what the Day of the LORD is in much detail. All of these Old Testament scriptures reveal exactly what Revelation says will happen. A burning of the earth, and the wickedness being destroyed. All of the Scriptures pertaining to the day of the LORD, in one place.

Isaiah 2(10)Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty. (11)The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. (12)For the day of the LORD of hosts upon every proud and lofty, and upon every lifted up; and he shall be brought low: (13)And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, (14)And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills lifted up, (15)And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall, (16)And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.

Isaiah 2(17)And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.(18)And the idols he shall utterly abolish. (19)And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. (20)In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; (21)To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Isaiah 13(6)Howl ye; for the day of the LORD at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. (7)Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: (8)And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces flames.

Isaiah 13(9)Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.(10)For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. (11)And I will punish the world for evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.


Isaiah 34(8)For the day of the LORD'S vengeance, the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.(9)And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. (10)It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Jeremiah 46(9)Come up, ye horses; and rage, ye chariots; and let the mighty men come forth; the Ethiopians and the Libyans, that handle the shield; and the Lydians, that handle bend the bow. (10)For this the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates

Lamentations 2(22)Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.

Ezekiel 13(4) O' Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts. (5)Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

Ezekiel 30(3)For the day near, even the day of the LORD near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen. (4)And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down. (5)Ethiopia, and Libya, and Lydia, and all the mingled people, and Chub, and the men of the land that is in league [against Israel and God], shall fall with them by the sword.

Joel 1(15) Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2(1) Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for nigh at hand; (2)A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, to the years of many generations.

(3)A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. (4)The appearance of them as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, (200 MILLION ?) so shall they run. (5)Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

Joel 2(10)The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: (11)And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp very great: for strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD great and very terrible; and who can abide it ?

Joel 2(31)The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 3(11) Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. (12)Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.(13)Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness great.(14)Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD near in the valley of decision.(15)The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.(16)The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Amos 5(18) Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end it for you? the day of the LORD darkness, and not light. (19)As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. (20)not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it ?

Obadiah 1(15) For the day of the LORD near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. (16)For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

Zephaniah 1(7) Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. (8)And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel. (9)In the same day also will I punish all those that leap on the threshold, which fill their masters' houses with violence and deceit.

Zephaniah 1(14) The great day of the LORD near, near, and hasteth greatly, the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. (15)That day a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, (16)A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. (17)And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. (18)Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Zephaniah 2:1-15 (1)Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; (2)Before the decree bring forth, the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you.

(3) Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger. (4)For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up.

(5) Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant. (6)And the sea coast shall be dwellings cottages for shepherds, and folds for flocks. (7)And the coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the LORD their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity. (8)I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified against their border. (9)Therefore I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them.

(10)This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified against the people of the LORD of hosts.(11)The LORD terrible unto them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth; and shall worship him, every one from his place, all the isles of the heathen. (12)Ye Ethiopians also, ye slain by my sword. (13)And he will stretch out his hand against the north, and destroy Assyria; and will make Nineveh a desolation, dry like a wilderness. (14)And flocks shall lie down in the midst of her, all the beasts of the nations: both the cormorant and the bittern shall lodge in the upper lintels of it; voice shall sing in the windows; desolation in the thresholds: for he shall uncover the cedar work. (15)This the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I , and none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, wag his hand. (God Destroying all the Wicked Nations)

Malachi 4:1-6 (1)For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. (2)But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. (3)And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do, saith the LORD of hosts. (4)Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, the statutes and judgments. (5)Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6)And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Acts 2(17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (18)And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (19)And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: (20)The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

1 Corinthians 5(3) For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, him that hath so done this deed, (4)In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, (5)To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2 Corinthians 1(12) For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward. (13)For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end; (14)As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I Thessalonians 5:1) But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. (2)For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. (3)For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. (4)But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (5)Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

(6)Therefore let us not sleep, as others; but let us watch and be sober. (7)For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. (8)But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. (9)For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,(10)Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

II Peter 3:1) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: (2)That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: (3)Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4)And saying, Where is the promise of his coming ? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as from the beginning of the creation. (5)For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6)Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (7)But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

(8)But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9)The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (10)But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (11)then all these things shall be dissolved, what manner ought ye to be in holy conversation and godliness, (12)Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat ? (13)Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

II Thessalonians 2:1-11(1)Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him, (2)That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

(3)Let no man deceive you by any means: for, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4)Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (5)Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

(6)And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (7)For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth, until he be taken out of the way. (8)And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (9)whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (10)And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (11)And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (12)That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Straightshot]

"welcome to the Post-Tribulation Yankee Doolde"


Exactly what post-tribulation thinking is

 

[Endtime Survivors]

I don't know of anyone here ever making a claim that there is any other way than Jesus.

The idea is that the Jews are special in God's eyes because they are Jews (i.e. God would never reject his people). It's not so clear in the sense that people come right out and say "The Jews don't need Jesus because they are still God's chosen people" but the implication is often there. I think different people have differing ideas. Your own perspective seems to be more moderate than what I had expected. I've seen some very...strongly held beliefs about the specialness of the Jews.

Israel is in the end time bible prophecies. The Antichrist cannot become the Antichrist - king of Israel - apart from there being an Israel, and the Jews thinking he is their king messiah. Jerusalem has to be in the hands of the Jews in order for the parable of the fig tree be come to pass. Jerusalem has to embrace Jesus, in order to say "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord". There has to be a temple built by the Jews and the daily sacrifice begun again, in order to the Antichrist to stop it.

I don't disagree that flesh Jews, their culture and their traditions will play a part in end time prophecy, but from my perspective they will play all the wrong parts. The Jews want their temple back, and the AC will make a deal with them for that very thing. I doubt they will recognize him as the AC. Far from it. Prophecy suggests the AC will be seen as some kind of hero, which is likely to be what will happen in real life if he's successful in doing what no other leader on Earth has been able to do for thousands of years; broker a legitimate peace deal in the middle east, part of which will consist negotiating a temple for the Jews.

The 70 weeks prophecy says "he" will confirm a covenant with many for "one week" (i.e 7 years), but it is worded in such a way that it could have a duel meaning regarding who the "he" is. The prophecy specifically talks about messiah, but then a few verses later it talks about a "he" who causes the abomination of desolation (which obviously would not be the messiah). I interpret the prophecy as suggesting that while the Jews make an agreement with the AC to rebuild their temple, Jesus will organize his followers into a spiritual temple of 144k faithful followers. Since it is not DNA which God looks for, but rather, humble, loving sincerity and obedience, these 144k believers will be the ultimate fulfillment of God's people (Israel), the way it should have always been, not based on physical criteria but spiritual. They are described as following the lamb "withersoever he goeth".

When you identify Jews in terms of DNA, you are dehumanizing them. A Jew is Judaism is someone's who mother is a Jew. It is not a matter of looking under a microscope scientific structure of their blood, their DNA, but God's will and perogrative and love and promises made to them, and their forefathers, human beings. You are talking about families, mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, little babies. Not DNA.

We're talking about the physical vs spiritual. Whether you want to define the physical via genetic material, traditions, or familial relations makes no difference to the underlying principle. The criteria for being right with God is spiritual in nature. When you keep going back to some kind of special role for the Jews, it only creates confusion, because on the one hand you say the criteria for being right with God is the same for all, yet if you really believed that then there would be no point to promoting the Jews as somehow special concerning prophecy. On the other hand you say the Jews still have some special role to fulfill, but on what reasoning is that special role based? What makes them so special?

There's nothing in particular that makes them so bad, either. Their just normal human beings like anyone else who either accepts or rejects Christ. You talk about promises, but what promises? The promises to Abraham and his seed were fulfilled in Jesus and Jesus said he had come to find the "lost" sheep. There were plenty of Jews all around him when he said that, and yet he indicated that he was still hunting.

John the baptist had heard enough smug, self satisfied complacency to boldly declare to the Jews, "Do not tell me that you are the children of Abraham (as though that somehow makes you special by default), because God can make these rocks into the children of Abraham if he wants". Obviously the Jews had picked up a rather nasty habit of entitlement and John could see it. God was looking for more than familial relationships, correct theology or correct sacrifices.

And he found it over and over again in people who were not Jews ( as well as some Jews; Paul described his strict Jewish heritage and then said he counted it all as dung in comparison to this new relationship with God not as a Jew, but as a Christian). The lost sheep are those sincere, humble loving souls who respond to God's holy spirit regardless of their physical circumstances. The people back in Jesus' day called them "Christians", presumably because their witness was Christ-like.

When you claim that prophecy from the gospels was only meant for the Jews, you make a mockery of that spirit which moves like the wind, which we cannot tell where it comes from or where it goes. The spirit moves through the hearts of those "lost" sheep and when they respond, should we say it is in vain because they are not Jews?

When a Christian fears not what man can do to the body and lays down his life for faith in Jesus, should we inform him that it was pointless because those prophecies from Jesus about persecution were actually meant for the Jews? Did Jesus mean only for the Jews to take up their cross, to overcome, to love their enemies, to take the lower seat, and to prepare to face persecution for following him because the servant is not greater than his master?

No, that makes no sense to me at all. Why should it be the Jew's job to suffer persecution while the Christians float to heaven on flowery beds of ease? It makes no sense.

 

[Revealing Times]

She's talking about Messianic Jews--the Jews who know the Messiah as their Lord and Savior. The "Rapture" (Resurrection-Gathering) is not going to happen before the Tribulation, or in the middle somewhere, because it violates Scripture. Gentile believers and Messianic Jews are going to be right alongside the Israelites who don't know Jesus and the Gentile unbelievers. All mankind alike who is alive, regardless of wealth or position in society (Isaiah 24:2, Revelation 3:10b) will experience the days of the Great Tribulation. If God is really pleased with someone, He can cause them to pass away early so they don't see these wicked, difficult days (Isaiah 57:1, Revelation 3:10a, Luke 21:36).

Gentile Believers and Messianic Jews will be in Heaven, marrying the Lamb of God, just like Rev. 19 says. What violates scripture is Mid or Post Tribulation Rapture, this can be proved rather easily. Jesus says the Tares will be bound before the Wheat is harvested right ? { Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'" }

So, no matter if the Rapture is Pre/Mid or Post, the Wheat is Harvested before the Tares are bound (in graves via death, awaiting their judgment in 1000 years) because of course the Rapture has to be the Harvest right ? NOT QUITE... The Harvest is the gathering of the Wheat (Israel) who Jesus prophesied about, not the Church because Jesus' ministry was about Israel. That can be the ONLY EXPLANATION !! We the Church are Raptued, marry the Lamb in Rev. 19, come back on White Horses, and destroy all the wicked, then after the wicked are BOUND in Death/Grave, Jesus gathers Israel unto his bosom (the Wheat into his Barn) from the Wilderness they fled to.

I mean Rev. 19 was enough for me, it is plain as day that we marry the Lamb and come back with Jesus.

 

[Luke17:37]

Gentile Believers and Messianic Jews will be in Heaven, marrying the Lamb of God, just like Rev. 19 says. What violates scripture is Mid or Post Tribulation Rapture, this can be proved rather easily. Jesus says the Tares will be bound before the Wheat is harvested right ? { Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'" }

So, no matter if the Rapture is Pre/Mid or Post, the Wheat is Harvested before the Tares are bound (in graves via death, awaiting their judgment in 1000 years) because of course the Rapture has to be the Harvest right ? NOT QUITE... The Harvest is the gathering of the Wheat (Israel) who Jesus prophesied about, not the Church because Jesus' ministry was about Israel. That can be the ONLY EXPLANATION !! We the Church are Raptued, marry the Lamb in Rev. 19, come back on White Horses, and destroy all the wicked, then after the wicked are BOUND in Death/Grave, Jesus gathers Israel unto his bosom (the Wheat into his Barn) from the Wilderness they fled to.

I mean Rev. 19 was enough for me, it is plain as day that we marry the Lamb and come back with Jesus.

Matthew 13 is plain that the wheat isn't going anywhere until after the weeds (unbelievers) are destroyed, which happens in Revelation 19:21. You say, "The Wheat is Harvested before the Tares are bound" but that is exactly the opposite of what this parable teaches.

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at that time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Jesus prophesied about, not the Church because Jesus' ministry was about Israel.

It's funny how people can promote this kind of thing until it comes to forgiveness and salvation. Suddenly Jesus' ministry is about more than just Israel! XD

Christians get all the salvation and forgiveness while the Jews get all the tribulation and suffering.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Matthew 13 is plain that the wheat isn't going anywhere until after the weeds (unbelievers) are destroyed, which happens in Revelation 19:21. You say, "The Wheat is Harvested before the Tares are bound" but that is exactly the opposite of what this parable teaches.

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at that time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."

Nice ^.^

 

[Riberra]

No one is saying that Jesus is the what withholdeth. What withholideth is that the Christians will be raptured before the man of sin reveals himself in his time.

The mystery of iniquity is Satan.The mystery of iniquity (Satan)was already at work when Jesus was born.In fact the mystery of iniquity (Satan) was at work since the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3).

So your idea that the Church (Christians) is the restrainer fall flat on your face.

The restrainer is God the Father.
God the Father restrain Satan in its actions...
Satan's actions are allowed if it goes in line and timing with the plan of God.Example it was in the plan of God that Jesus will be put to death under the influence of Satan and his minions who were the scribes and high priests.

When the time will come to fulfill the prophecy about the man of sin /Antichrist/Beast,God will left his restrain on Satan's actions to fulfill that part of the prophecy in the appropriate time.

Mystery solved....

/What withhold/ is the power of God, until God decide that the time is come for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

 

[Straightshot]

RB finally got one right above !!!

Study on

 

[Riberra]

RB finally got one right above !!!

Study on

I have made the demonstration in post 693 that the Church (Christians) is not the restrainer. Nobody in the Church will be made immortal and taken to Heaven before the tribulation.

Study on !

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Are you kidding ? The Day of the Lord/Christ is a period of Judgment against the Wicked. A Seven Year Period of Daniels 70th Week followed by the 42 months period in the middle of this Seven Year Period which is the Day of the Lord. That is throughout the bible, on many places. Hey guys, I use this site, and then you can push CONTROL & F, and a search box opens, type in any phrase or word and it shows you how many tome it is in the bibles, and where it is at, and its highlighted, and you can scroll each verse by clicking the up and down button. AND is in the Bible 57,000 times or close to that and Day of the Lord is in it 31 times.
http://www.biblewordstudy.org/kjv-non-italicized.html

The Day of the LORD is a period of time, 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1260 days that will be Gods anger, vengeance or wrath against all the wicked that refuse to call upon His name and ask for grace. Those that love evil/wickedness will be utterly destroyed, as the scriptures below detail, what the Day of the LORD is in much detail. All of these Old Testament scriptures reveal exactly what Revelation says will happen. A burning of the earth, and the wickedness being destroyed. All of the Scriptures pertaining to the day of the LORD, in one place.

Isaiah 2(10)Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty. (11)The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. (12)For the day of the LORD of hosts upon every proud and lofty, and upon every lifted up; and he shall be brought low: (13)And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, (14)And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills lifted up, (15)And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall, (16)And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.

Isaiah 2(17)And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.(18)And the idols he shall utterly abolish. (19)And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. (20)In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; (21)To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Isaiah 13(6)Howl ye; for the day of the LORD at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. (7)Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: (8)And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces flames.

Isaiah 13(9)Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.(10)For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. (11)And I will punish the world for evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.


Isaiah 34(8)For the day of the LORD'S vengeance, the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.(9)And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. (10)It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Jeremiah 46(9)Come up, ye horses; and rage, ye chariots; and let the mighty men come forth; the Ethiopians and the Libyans, that handle the shield; and the Lydians, that handle bend the bow. (10)For this the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates

Lamentations 2(22)Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.

Ezekiel 13(4) O' Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts. (5)Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

Ezekiel 30(3)For the day near, even the day of the LORD near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen. (4)And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down. (5)Ethiopia, and Libya, and Lydia, and all the mingled people, and Chub, and the men of the land that is in league [against Israel and God], shall fall with them by the sword.

Joel 1(15) Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2(1) Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for nigh at hand; (2)A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, to the years of many generations.

(3)A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. (4)The appearance of them as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, (200 MILLION ?) so shall they run. (5)Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

Joel 2(10)The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: (11)And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp very great: for strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD great and very terrible; and who can abide it ?

Joel 2(31)The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 3(11) Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. (12)Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.(13)Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness great.(14)Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD near in the valley of decision.(15)The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.(16)The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Amos 5(18) Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end it for you? the day of the LORD darkness, and not light. (19)As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. (20)not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it ?

Obadiah 1(15) For the day of the LORD near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. (16)For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

Zephaniah 1(7) Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. (8)And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel. (9)In the same day also will I punish all those that leap on the threshold, which fill their masters' houses with violence and deceit.

Zephaniah 1(14) The great day of the LORD near, near, and hasteth greatly, the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. (15)That day a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, (16)A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. (17)And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. (18)Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Zephaniah 2:1-15 (1)Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; (2)Before the decree bring forth, the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you.

(3) Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger. (4)For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up.

(5) Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant. (6)And the sea coast shall be dwellings cottages for shepherds, and folds for flocks. (7)And the coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the LORD their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity. (8)I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified against their border. (9)Therefore I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them.

(10)This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified against the people of the LORD of hosts.(11)The LORD terrible unto them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth; and shall worship him, every one from his place, all the isles of the heathen. (12)Ye Ethiopians also, ye slain by my sword. (13)And he will stretch out his hand against the north, and destroy Assyria; and will make Nineveh a desolation, dry like a wilderness. (14)And flocks shall lie down in the midst of her, all the beasts of the nations: both the cormorant and the bittern shall lodge in the upper lintels of it; voice shall sing in the windows; desolation in the thresholds: for he shall uncover the cedar work. (15)This the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I , and none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, wag his hand. (God Destroying all the Wicked Nations)

Malachi 4:1-6 (1)For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. (2)But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. (3)And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do, saith the LORD of hosts. (4)Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, the statutes and judgments. (5)Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6)And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Acts 2(17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (18)And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (19)And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: (20)The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

1 Corinthians 5(3) For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, him that hath so done this deed, (4)In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, (5)To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2 Corinthians 1(12) For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward. (13)For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end; (14)As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I Thessalonians 5:1) But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. (2)For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. (3)For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. (4)But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (5)Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

(6)Therefore let us not sleep, as others; but let us watch and be sober. (7)For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. (8)But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. (9)For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,(10)Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

II Peter 3:1) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: (2)That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: (3)Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4)And saying, Where is the promise of his coming ? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as from the beginning of the creation. (5)For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6)Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (7)But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

(8)But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9)The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (10)But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (11)then all these things shall be dissolved, what manner ought ye to be in holy conversation and godliness, (12)Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat ? (13)Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

II Thessalonians 2:1-11(1)Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him, (2)That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

(3)Let no man deceive you by any means: for, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4)Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (5)Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

(6)And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (7)For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth, until he be taken out of the way. (8)And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (9)whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (10)And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (11)And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (12)That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Okay, you are right, you and straight shot are right on what the day of the LORD is.... so we can put all armors down, no one is going to get hurt. We are just saying, whichever day of the LORD is, including the days of the LORD's wrath they will involve all Christians, whether a gentile or a Hebrew and they will all be in the same boat. The LORD will not declare his days of vengeance against his own but against the sinful world.

The world is coming to an end and we need to stop this back and forth on everything. The time of Noah's flood has been beckoning for an audience for a very long time. The World has been longing to give birth to a powerful economy that would rule with a Unitarian thumb rule. I don't think it's debatable because hey! the world is too engrossed on power and everyone is competing on who will get ahead of who. So like rational human beings, we all know someone will get in someone's way. The question is, when? That I could have told you confidently if I knew it, but is just my instincts are kinda flipping to the edge of a radio wave and I can't place my finger on what's up really. All I know, (if there's a catholic here) I would tell them your mother is up to no GOOD. But anyway, I didn't like the idea of conspiracy theories, I just have my concerns from placing too many two and twos together. I also have faith that the Holy Spirit has never lied so I will give this instinct a shot, there are times it's the least you can do.

So if Hurricane Sandy caught guys unawares don't let this one catch you off-guard! good LUCK!!!

 

[Riberra]

RB finally got one right above !!!

Study on

I have made the demonstration in post 693 that the Church (Christians) is not the restrainer. Nobody in the Church will be made immortal and taken to Heaven before the tribulation.
It is in the plan of God that the Christians will be overcome by the beast .
That is the hard cold truth.

Study on !

 

[Straightshot]

"Nobody in the Church will be made immortal and taken to Heaven before the tribulation."


You are dead wrong about this one RB [2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

The destruction "great city" of MBG will be the first judgment of the tribulation .... on day one [Revelation 8:6-12; 14;8; 17:16-18; 18]

 

[Straightshot]

"It is in the plan of God that the Christians will be overcome by the beast"


The tribulation Christians only .... those who will become Christians during the tribulation [Revelation 6:9-10; 13:7; 14:13]

So guess what .... you are standing in a bad place with your rejection of the Lord's promise to keep you from it

In fact what you say above is the song of the devil .... think about it

 

[Riberra]

"Nobody in the Church will be made immortal and taken to Heaven before the tribulation."


You are dead wrong about this one RB [2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

The destruction "great city" of MBG will be the first judgment of the tribulation .... on day one [Revelation 8:6-12; 14;8; 17:16-18; 18]

The great earthquake of the 6th seal at the beginning of the tribulation ,will come long before the destruction of"great city Babylon" MBG.

One rule about the First Resurrection of the believers
It will happen at the same time that Revelation 20:4-6 which is after the tribulation.