I'm not suggesting you push your stand. It's a discussion so it's expected that you will offer your point of view, perspective, reasons, counter arguments etc. I'm not asking you to fight about this nor am I suggesting that you are obligated to change your point of view based on anything said here. I think what makes these disagreements so difficult to watch is that people often fall back on implications that the opposing side is somehow spiritually inferior just because they disagree. The implication is that the Lord is on my side and since we can't both be right the Lord is not on your side. I don't think God's point of view is that black/white and I don't think that kind of thing is helpful when attempting to arrive at the truth. In other words, I think we all have areas where we can be right with God while at the same time have areas where we can have a wrong understanding, and even within those two categories there can be a long spectrum of gray between the right and wrong of each.
I think at some point we should be able to agree to disagree, but we seemed to have reached that point rather early in the piece between you and me and I don't know why that is, since I feel I have tried to treat your arguments with respect despite disagreeing with them.
In this context, I hope you won't mind if respond to the points you've made in the quote above and I hope you will feel encouraged to respond to my counter arguments. I think it's fine that you felt peace about having made a decision as to what you believe about the pre vs post trib rapture issue.
However, comments like, "I don't think twice about it" or "there is no 'what if'" suggest that you're not really open to hearing, or even considering alternative points of view. For example, I am willing to think twice about it. Every time I discuss this issue with others I believe I do try to hear what the other person is saying in the event that I may have missed something along the way. Look back at my posts on this thread and you will see that I've addressed most of what the opposition has had to say and I give clearly defined reasons for that position does not make sense; not just that I disagree, but why it doesn't make sense to me.
I think we all need to have second thoughts about every aspect of our walk with God, especially since we don't have perfect understanding of all truth. The "what if" is there to remind us of that. What if I have got it wrong? If I'm in a place where I have decided there can be no second thought whatsoever, then how can I possibly hope to overcome whatever misunderstanding I'm having? I'm applying this to more than just the current disagreement about the rapture and I'm suggesting this should apply to all Christians, including me. I'm quite sure I have a wrong understanding on several issues, though I'm not aware of the specifics. To me, that is what all learning is about. My job is to think twice, thrice and however many times it takes to search out those wrong understandings.
This should be especially true for those areas where we believe we are the most right, because those are the areas we are least likely to revisit with renewed examination as to whether or not we really do have it all worked out. It is not a sign of faith to be stubbornly opposed to thinking twice about a position for which we have strong conviction. It is the opposite of faith to stop thinking, to stop questioning, and to stop what if'ing.
This is why I suggested, in my earlier post to straightshot, how so many Christians could end up taking the Mark of the Beast. IF they are wrong about their pre-trib position, then they will end up going through the trib and they will end up facing the Mark. But, if they've settled it in their heart that there is no way they could possibly be wrong, then they will not see the Mark as the Mark. They will think, "since there's no way I can be wrong, this thing about to be put on my hand so that I may continue to buy/sell cannot possibly be the Mark; God promised that I would not need to face it therefore there should be no problem with me accepting this thing on my hand". It will not be that God somehow broke his promise that these Christians will end up being condemned for taking the Mark, but rather that they became stubborn and hard hearted, unwilling to re-examine their position and as a result made bad decisions.
This is why it is so very dangerous to confuse a stubbornness with conviction and faith. It's like the "name it and claim it" miracles, where people claim to have been healed when really they have not. They see the claim as evidence of faith that God will someday heal them, but when talking to others they must PRETEND that they've been healed as a sign of their faith. If they honestly say, "no I haven't been healed yet but I believe God will someday" then it's the equivalent of letting go of the claim and therefore shows a lack of faith. They've made stubbornness and dishonesty into a sign of real faith.
Taking the position that, "I have made a decision about what I know to be the truth and have vowed to never think about it again" is the worst place a seeker of truth can be.
Will you please reconsider you position on refusing to think about the alternatives and the what if's?
I appreciate your concern, I believe it's genuine and I thank you.
Don't think that I haven't weighed the consequences of facing the great tribulation head on, I have. That is where my peace came from, I went to the scriptures to search for the truth. It didn't happen over night, in fact, it took years. I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, but that's ok, God isn't looking for intelligence, He's looking for those who will dare to trust Him by blind faith.
I could go through the usual scriptures pointing out what I believe to be the truth concerning the rapture. But what hit me like a brick wall during my studies was the character of God. God began to reveal who He is. I've never been able to get over how much He cares for us. How the scripture says He is continually watching over us, He knows the number of hairs on our heads, our conversation and thoughts of Him are recorded in heaven. So, I began to concentrate my study, as much as possible, on the nature of God in general. I learned that His righteousness demands judgment and His judgment is righteous. His righteous judgment at times must be carried out by His awesome wrath. The question is, what creates this wrath, and to whom or what is it directed. This is very important seeing that the scripture declares "the great day of His wrath is come and who shall be able to stand?" Rev. 6:17
Paul tells us what creates the wrath of God.
Rom. 1:18-23
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."
Ungodliness and unrighteousness is what inflames the wrath of God.
Nahum 1:2
God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious; the Lord will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
God reserves His wrath for His enemies. Who is Gods enemy.
James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
The enemy of God is the friend of the world, but Christ has chosen us out of the world.
John 15:19
"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."
Those who are in Jesus are not of the world. You are NOT subject to Gods wrath.
It can't get any clearer than this!
Rom. 5:8-10
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
I know, I know, you don't have to tell me. We're going to get caught up in definitions, interpretations, and doubts, well, I don't know, so and so said so and so. But that's the reason I don't do this anymore! I say my part and move on.
