Equity or Equality?

[SummerMadness]

I'm fine with financial aid and scholarship programs. Do you think those things should be based on race? If so, why?

You initially stated that financial aid is a problem of equity, is that no longer the case, or did I mistake your explanation (you pointed to links without explanation)? I support using a holistic approach to college admissions that uses multiple factors. Many people speak of merit, yet they don't seem to really support everything based on merit alone. Nonetheless, was the purpose of this thread to discuss college admissions or what are the meanings of equality and equity?

 

[SummerMadness]

It seems this thread is not really about equity and more about blaming people for the effects of systemic problems in American society. When I think of equity, I think of the disabled and the access and type of education they receive. I would never argue they should be treated exactly the same as students without physical or mental impediments.

 

[Pommer]

Well the population isn't very receptive to it. PTA nights dont exist hardly.

Working two and three jobs cuts into “family time”, yes.

 

[Speedwell]

Local parent population

Right.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That doesn't appear in the dictionary, so you can't use that definition.

Tell the Vice President to pick a different word then....like communism.

The Democratic left describes equity as everyone getting the same outcomes. If you think they are wrong or being deceptive....feel free to tell everyone about it.

I'd agree that not only is it deceptive..it's harmful.

 

[Pommer]

Equality: equal opportunity for everyone
Equity: equal outcomes for everyone

Short enough to fit on a bumpersticker and wrong enough to pull in “the usual suspects”!

 

[Pommer]

Equality: We all get the same textbook.
Equity: We all get the same grade.

ibid

 

[Pommer]

Too much attention paid to race, not enough to culture. But if your race defines your culture and vice versa then both can be addressed as one.

Please cease attempting to turn this into a “race thread”, thanks.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Oh, so when people argue that racism doesn't exist because of a dictionary definition they're using, then we can acknowledge how it may be defined used in other fields and forms besides what is explicitly written in the dictionary?

Absolutely....as long as you can actually define it.

It's understandable that words, practices, and usage change over time, and that may not be necessarily reflected in texts like the dictionary. However, many fall back hard on the narrow and/or outdated definition of racism, yet we're supposed to swallow your redefinition of equity?

Nobody actually uses any of the "new" definitions of racism.

If someone calls Serena Williams a racial slur.....people call that racism, and it is, under the old definition.

That's how people use the term.

The only time people trot out the new definition of "power + privilege" is to defend themselves against accusations of racism.

Nobody ever actually makes any analysis of power before calling someone racist. It's a fake definition.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Short enough to fit on a bumpersticker and wrong enough to pull in “the usual suspects”!

Equitable treatment means we all end up at the same place.-Kamala Harris

Is the Vice President a "usual suspect" to you?

 

[Pommer]

Equitable treatment means we all end up at the same place.-Kamala Harris

Is the Vice President a "usual suspect" to you?

She’s wrong. So sez I.

 

[DaisyDay]

College Admissions: A Lesson in History | Western Association for College Admission Counseling

Appears things used to be completely merit based.

Being male is entirely merit based, eh?

The problem is using immutable traits to permit entry or receive special treatment.

It was used to keep people out.

 

[Ana the Ist]

She’s wrong. So sez I.

Well then stop voting Democrat. They're pushing racial equity hard...

Biden’s U.N. Ambassador: ‘White Supremacy Is Weaved into Our Founding Documents and Principles’

Linda Thomas-Greenfield, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, said Wednesday that racial equity is a top focus for her as “white supremacy is weaved into our founding documents and principles” in the U.S.

That’s why the Biden administration has made racial equity a top priority across the entire government and I’m making it a real focus on my tenure at the U.S. mission to the United Nations,” she said.

The Democratic party is now packed full of racists who want to treat people differently according to race.

That's based on their own words.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Being male is entirely merit based, eh?

It was used to keep people out.

Well as of today there's no male only colleges.

However there's dozens of female only colleges if I remember correctly.

You believe they should admit men or close?

 

[disciple Clint]

OK, but how would that work out in practice? Is it reverse discrimination to devote extra resources' to physically handicapped children? Children who have demonstrable learning disabilities? To ESL assistance for children who are growing up in a home where English is not much spoken?

Five billion for black farmers, nothing for other farmers?

 

[FireDragon76]

Equality: equal opportunity for everyone
Equity: equal outcomes for everyone

You've got those terms confused. Equity is just a fancy word for justice or fairness.

 

[FireDragon76]

Which, in practice, results in inequality in order to achieve an equalness of outcome; and the approach is partially dealing with immutable qualities of the students. They want to address the issues of poverty, drop out rates, and lack of proficiency, but will not acknowledge or address that the problems with those things are a direct result of parental encouragement and involvement at home. As my wife is an ex-teacher in an inner city school, you knew which kids had parents that fostered educational achievements and priorities versus those who did not; and this spanned race, gender and economic status.

It's the Right, not the Left, that believes in "Equality". That is a central Marxist critique of western liberalism: humanity is falsely seen in abstraction, not in concrete social relations, and use "equality" as a fig leaf for denying humanity in its concrete manifestations.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Which is fair? Which is right and just? But most importantly, which path will America take into the future?

Which answer do you want in the polls. Equity (same outcome for everyone) is the word of the day, and the direction our country is taking, but equality (equal under the law, equal to acheive to each man's fullest potential according to each man's effort and ability, not identical outcome - for the poor will always be with us, it's just a matter of which system the poor live under, tyranny or freedom) is right and just.

 

[98cwitr]

You initially stated that financial aid is a problem of equity, is that no longer the case, or did I mistake your explanation (you pointed to links without explanation)? I support using a holistic approach to college admissions that uses multiple factors. Many people speak of merit, yet they don't seem to really support everything based on merit alone. Nonetheless, was the purpose of this thread to discuss college admissions or what are the meanings of equality and equity?

Not exactly what I stated: Financial aid based on immutable traits is a problem of applied equity (not the nice, friendly textbook definition that was posted).

A discussion of equity vs. equality in general, college admissions being a specific use case to discuss.

 

[98cwitr]

You've got those terms confused. Equity is just a fancy word for justice or fairness.

Is it fair or just for a system or policy to give to some and not others based on immutable traits?