Equity or Equality?

[Ana the Ist]

Which is fair? Which is right and just? But most importantly, which path will America take into the future?

I think the better question is "merit or equity"?

Is it more important that we promote merit or racial equity?

I'm for merit....anyone with half a brain is too.

Ask yourself if it's more important that your surgeon is racially diverse....or a good surgeon? How about your mechanic? Your plumber? Your health inspector?

We can fill racial quotas at jobs.....or we can promote people based on merit.

I'd argue it's far more important that we promote people based on merit. Typically whenever political movements become hostile to the smart and competent....those nations experience a "brain drain" where the smart and competent leave.

That doesn't work out well.

 

[Speedwell]

I think the better question is "merit or equity"?

Is it more important that we promote merit or racial equity?

I'm for merit....anyone with half a brain is too.

Ask yourself if it's more important that your surgeon is racially diverse....or a good surgeon? How about your mechanic? Your plumber? Your health inspector?

We can fill racial quotas at jobs.....or we can promote people based on merit.

I'd argue it's far more important that we promote people based on merit. Typically whenever political movements become hostile to the smart and competent....those nations experience a "brain drain" where the smart and competent leave.

That doesn't work out well.

As 98cwitr correctly pointed out, this is not a racial issue.

 

[98cwitr]

As 98cwitr correctly pointed out, this is not a racial issue.

Very true, but people are trying to make it into one. Give the kids that need help the help they need, regardless of their racial or socioeconomic standings.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You're still forcing your own definition onto the school district, which defines "equity" as each student reaching his full potential, not equality of achievement.

How does one know if equity is achieved?

It's possible they've reached their full potential under the current system without any changes at all.

 

[Ana the Ist]

As 98cwitr correctly pointed out, this is not a racial issue.

They aren't pushing for individual equity....

That's a meritocracy.

 

[Ana the Ist]

As 98cwitr correctly pointed out, this is not a racial issue.

Firstly, let's not be coy. If we're talking about politics, and we're talking about the idea of equity that Democrats have put forth...98cwitr is correct. Equity=the same outcomes.

As Kamala Harris put it....

So, there’s a big difference between equality and equity. Equality suggests, “Oh, everyone should get the same amount.” The problem with that: Not everybody’s starting out from the same place. So, if we’re all getting the same amount, but you started out back there and I started out over here, we could get the same amount, but you’re still going to be that far back behind me. It’s about giving people the resources and the support they need so that everyone can be on equal footing, and then compete on equal footing. Equitable treatment means we all end up at the same place.

I'm not misinterpreting anything. Clearly the Vice President knows what idea she is putting forward.

If you don't understand what the left means when they say equity....I can explain it, you can look at what they say, or you can read any number of sources.

Once you understand it....we can discuss whether it's a good idea or the dumbest proposition since trickle down economics.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This whole "zero sum" mentality, that helping one group of students in ways specific to them somehow deprives other students who don't need the same level of attention is toxic and needs to die.

School has a finite number of hours. It has a finite amount of resources.

If we dedicate the curriculum to teaching something like math....we aren't teaching other things.

Obviously, any time taken to learn something like "postmodern feminist theory" will have to be done at the expense of learning something else.

I think it's absolutely fair to debate and discuss how the limited resources a school has should be distributed fairly for the benefit of all students.

That's a good discussion to have. I can understand the value of teaching children about history in a very general sense. I don't see any value in teaching children something like pan-African tribal religions. That's not likely to be of value to any student in 2030 when they graduate. They would be far better off spending that time learning algorithmic mathematics, basic economics, and any number of other topics.

The point is that it's a finite amount of time, and resources....so it absolutely is a zero sum game.

 

[disciple Clint]

Equality: equal opportunity for everyone
Equity: equal outcomes for everyone

Based on what I have see so far Equity is better defined as reverse discrimination.

 

[Speedwell]

Based on what I have see so far Equity is better defined as reverse discrimination.

OK, but how would that work out in practice? Is it reverse discrimination to devote extra resources' to physically handicapped children? Children who have demonstrable learning disabilities? To ESL assistance for children who are growing up in a home where English is not much spoken?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Their definition of equity is different than yours.

"Equity: Accepting and valuing each individual for who they are and providing the structures, environment and resources each person needs to reach their greatest potential."

That's the definition of equality.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

People like to use the dictionary when discussing other topics, none of your definitions appear in the dictionary.

equality

1. the quality or state of being equal

equal

1. to be equal to

• especially : to be identical in value to

1. equalize (archaic)
2. to make or produce something equal to

equity

1. • a: justice according to natural law or right specifically : freedom from bias or favoritism
   • b: something that is equitable
2. • a: the money value of a property or of an interest in a property in excess of claims or liens against it
   • b: the common stock of a corporation
   • c: a risk interest or ownership right in property
   • d: a right, claim, or interest existing or valid in equity
3. • a: a system of law originating in the English chancery and comprising a settled and formal body of legal and procedural rules and doctrines that supplement, aid, or override common and statute law and are designed to protect rights and enforce duties fixed by substantive law
   • b: trial or remedial justice under or by the rules and doctrines of equity
   • c: a body of legal doctrines and rules developed to enlarge, supplement, or override a narrow rigid system of law

Well that clears it up.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Equality: We all get the same textbook.
Equity: We all get the same grade.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Which is fair? Which is right and just? But most importantly, which path will America take into the future?

Equality.

In America you are free to fail as well as to succeed. Your choice. But you can't have your cake and eat it too, and you can't reach your chosen destination by travelling in the opposite direction.

 

[Albion]

Based on what I have see so far Equity is better defined as reverse discrimination.

That's probably close to it, if perhaps somewhat oversimplified.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

As Kamala Harris put it....

Equitable treatment means we all end up at the same place.

That's actually a pretty ominous thought:

The End Of The Individual.

 

[SummerMadness]

Equality: We all get the same textbook.
Equity: We all get the same grade.

That doesn't appear in the dictionary, so you can't use that definition.

 

[98cwitr]

That doesn't appear in the dictionary, so you can't use that definition.

I can and did, and stand by it because that's exactly how it's being applied in action.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That doesn't appear in the dictionary, so you can't use that definition.

What would equity look like to you, and how would it be achieved, seriously?

In order to achieve the same ends we must use the same means. Do you agree?

 

[Speedwell]

I can and did, and stand by it because that's exactly how it's being applied in action.

I don't think so. You can ask your wife, but I think you will be hard-pressed to find a teacher who believes in equality of outcomes rather than equality of opportunity to reach full individual potential.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I don't think so. You can ask your wife, but I think you will be hard-pressed to find a teacher who believes in equality of outcomes rather than equality of opportunity to reach full individual potential.

What teachers believe and what the school administration forces them to do are often at odds.