Equity or Equality?

[SummerMadness]

That's the definition of equality.

It sounds like you support equity.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It sounds like you support equity.

Sure, if you can catch up to me, but I'm not going to slow down for you.

 

[SummerMadness]

I can and did, and stand by it because that's exactly how it's being applied in action.

Oh, so when people argue that racism doesn't exist because of a dictionary definition they're using, then we can acknowledge how it may be defined used in other fields and forms besides what is explicitly written in the dictionary?

It's understandable that words, practices, and usage change over time, and that may not be necessarily reflected in texts like the dictionary. However, many fall back hard on the narrow and/or outdated definition of racism, yet we're supposed to swallow your redefinition of equity?

Regardless, your definition of equity is not congruent with the usage and attitudes of the people you're complaining about, so it's hard to accept your straw manning of their beliefs.

 

[SummerMadness]

Sure, if you can catch up to me, but I'm not going to slow down for you.

No one is slowing down.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No one is slowing down.

I dunno. Some don't seem to be moving at all.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Oh, so when people argue that racism doesn't exist because of a dictionary definition they're using, then we can acknowledge how it may be defined used in other fields and forms besides what is explicitly written in the dictionary?

It's understandable that words, practices, and usage change over time, and that may not be necessarily reflected in texts like the dictionary. However, many fall back hard on the narrow and/or outdated definition of racism, yet we're supposed to swallow your redefinition of equity?

Regardless, your definition of equity is not congruent with the usage and attitudes of the people you're complaining about, so it's hard to accept your straw manning of their beliefs.

Too much attention paid to race, not enough to culture. But if your race defines your culture and vice versa then both can be addressed as one.

 

[98cwitr]

Oh, so when people argue that racism doesn't exist because of a dictionary definition they're using, then we can acknowledge how it may be defined used in other fields and forms besides what is explicitly written in the dictionary?

That's fine to argue dictionary definition; absolutely valid as well. The difference is that a certain faction, the same one that attempts to use a falsified definition of racism, also will misuse the word equity outside of the definition (fair and just) to implement unfair and unjust policies; IF we consider societally that equality is the measurement for fairness and justice.

It's understandable that words, practices, and usage change over time, and that may not be necessarily reflected in texts like the dictionary. However, many fall back hard on the narrow and/or outdated definition of racism, yet we're supposed to swallow your redefinition of equity?

I'm defining equity as practiced. I wish they'd follow the written definition. Is it fair to give attention to a group of students based on their race and not show the same attention to others? That sounds like racism to me.

Regardless, your definition of equity is not congruent with the usage and attitudes of the people you're complaining about, so it's hard to accept your straw manning of their beliefs.

Neither is the practice of it. When did this shift from equality to equity start anyway? And most importantly...why?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

When did this shift from equality to equity start anyway? And most importantly...why?

When equality didn't work.

 

[SummerMadness]

That's fine to argue dictionary definition; absolutely valid as well. The difference is that a certain faction, the same one that attempts to use a falsified definition of racism, also will misuse the word equity outside of the definition (fair and just) to implement unfair and unjust policies; IF we consider societally that equality is the measurement for fairness and justice.

I'm defining equity as practiced. I wish they'd follow the written definition. Is it fair to give attention to a group of students based on their race and not show the same attention to others? That sounds like racism to me.

And they are defining racism as practiced, yet you are not? You're doing the same thing you accuse others of doing. No amount of explanation will get past the fact that you have redefined a word because you do not believe the dictionary definition is sufficient.

 

[98cwitr]

And they are defining racism as practiced, yet you are not?

I rebuke such sentiments. There is zero evidence for contemporary institutional racism. Find me one racist (literally racist, not a "disproportionate" argument; that could be argued for anything) law, and I'll march with you until it is repealed.

You're doing the same thing you accuse others of doing. No amount of explanation will get past the fact that you have redefined a word because you do not believe the dictionary definition is sufficient.

I rebuke such a claim. This is about proper framing.

 

[SummerMadness]

I rebuke such sentiments. There is zero evidence for contemporary institutional racism. Find me one racist (literally racist, not a "disproportionate" argument; that could be argued for anything) law, and I'll march with you until it is repealed.

I rebuke such a claim. This is about proper framing.

You can rebuke all you'd like. There are multiple studies, manuscripts, and books written about the various forms of racism. If you are arguing that you have seen zero evidence, then that's a reflection of your ignorance on the topic as opposed to lack of evidence. You regally redefine words like equality and equity, it's no different than what you accuse others doing with zero evidence. Perhaps you can make your case by showing how a program being advocated is a problem because it forces everyone to have the same outcome.

 

[98cwitr]

Perhaps you can make your case by showing how a program being advocated is a problem because it forces everyone to have the same outcome.

The racial equity admission initiatives at Harvard, which subsequently got them sued is a great example. Also, their socioeconomic admissions policy is unfair and is not based on merit, but simply how much money you have.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...a83950-778d-11eb-9537-496158cc5fd9_story.html

Affordability

 

[SummerMadness]

The racial equity admission initiatives at Harvard, which subsequently got them sued is a great example. Also, their socioeconomic admissions policy is unfair and is not based on merit, but simply how much money you have.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...a83950-778d-11eb-9537-496158cc5fd9_story.html

Affordability

College admission has never been about merit alone, so I don't get the gripe here? Are you arguing that there should not be financial aid to any students? What specifically are you saying is the problem?

 

[98cwitr]

College admission has never been about merit alone, so I don't get the gripe here? Are you arguing that there should not be financial aid to any students? What specifically are you saying is the problem?

How to get into Harvard in 3 easy steps, 300 years ago:

1. Read Virgil and Cicero in the original Latin
2. Demonstrate a working knowledge of Greek.
3. You’re in.

College Admissions: A Lesson in History | Western Association for College Admission Counseling

Appears things used to be completely merit based.

The problem is using immutable traits to permit entry or receive special treatment.

 

[SummerMadness]

College Admissions: A Lesson in History | Western Association for College Admission Counseling

Appears things used to be completely merit based.

The problem is using immutable traits to permit entry or receive special treatment.

Your link suggests that colleges were not originally merit-based, but catered to rich elites, especially considering that higher education was considered a luxury. But what does this have to financial aid?

 

[mama2one]

They just don't feel they have the authority to remind parents they are responsible for their child's education just as much, if not moreso, than the school system's.

why not?

 

[98cwitr]

why not?

our school district does tell parents that we are partners with teachers in child's education

we're doing the district's online school & they have sent multiple emails for us parents to monitor our kids plus provide daily exercise and "extra" above & beyond curriculum

our district is rated "excellent"

Well the population isn't very receptive to it. PTA nights dont exist hardly.

 

[98cwitr]

Your link suggests that colleges were not originally merit-based, but catered to rich elites, especially considering that higher education was considered a luxury. But what does this have to financial aid?

I'm fine with financial aid and scholarship programs. Do you think those things should be based on race? If so, why?

 

[Speedwell]

Well the population isn't very receptive to it. PTA nights dont exist hardly.

"The population?"

 

[98cwitr]

"The population?"

Local parent population