Episode 4:05 - The Constant

[FatBurger]

That little smile on his face as he walked away seemed to indicate that he knew it had worked even when he was in 94'...interesting

From an "inside the show" perspective, I think he was just relieved that he was able to make contact with Penny.

From an "outside the show" perspective, it's just a common literary technique to end a show with the protaganist happily confident in a new-found solution.

So I'm not so smart with some of the science stuff, but I'm guessing "the sickness" is this conscience time traveling thing. But why doesn't it affect everyone? or does it and some just don't travel too far and so they just have like "deja vu" type stuff. Or the wrecked plane can act as their "constant"?

Right, we know now what happened to Danielle's crew - they went crazy and died, according to her. Didn't make much sense until last night.

Remember, Daniel mentioned exposure to high amounts of radiation or electromagnetism - Desmond was exposed to it, but not the pilot or Sayid. Most likely, Danielle (being pregnant) stayed back while the rest of her crew explored. They got too close to the Swan and were exposed to electromagnetism.

(obviously not the 6)

8? Obviously not the 6? Eh? You'll have to explain.

It wasn't Penny's boat, but she kept calling it?

You and me both.

Correct, his consiousness was switching times.

That's what I thought - in which case, Daniel would not have had the journal entry. So it has to be actual time travel.

No, I think it holds the location of the island - or clues to its location. The question is, does Charles Widmore already know about the island? Or his his buying the journal a coincidence, and it will eventually lead to his interest in the island?

It was actually revealed during the Find815.com that there was a connection between the Hanso name/family and the Black Rock. Also, the boat that found the plane wreck was commissioned by Charles Widmore (through a subsidiary called the Maxwell Group).

(Why did her dad leave the water running?)

Just so that there'd be a sign of how much time has past - it was an "outside the show" thing.

Wasn't Desmond in Australia, in the armed services?

Scotland

 

[FatBurger]

Does anyone think that Ben's mastered time-travel? As in, when Miles said, "Don't you think I know what you can do?"

Good thought. That comment from Miles really jumped out at me at the time.

 

[snoochface]

i wonder who Ben's man on the boat is? He apparently opened the door and is helping Sayid and Desmond!

Yeah, Minkowski said, "Looks like you've got a friend on the boat" or something like that. It has to be Ben's man, but how would he have known to help them? You'd think Ben's man would not necessarily want to help Sayid, of all people, since he beat and tortured Ben.

Why did Desmond get stuck in the time travel continuum but Sayid and the pilot did not?

Desmond was caught in the electro-magnetic blast when the hatch imploded. Apparently that is one of the conditions for being affected by the time travel.

Interesting that Minkowski said that Penny kept calling the boat and he was told not to answer!

I want to know what happened three years ago (2001) to cause Penny to suddenly believe Desmond and begin looking for him! What turned her around??

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

Interesting stuff:

Desmond moves between 1996 and 2004 (8 years apart)

Frank is told by Daniel to follow a bearing of 305, which is a Northwest direction. Eko's stick bore the inscription "Lift up your eyes and look north - John 3:05".


Unanswered Questions:

What is the significance of the name Eloise?

Who is the "friend" on the boat who opened the sick bay door? Is the friend also Ben's "man on the boat"?

Why could Minkowski remember events that happened before he became "unstuck" in time, though Desmond could not?

Locke and Desmond both experienced the explosion of the Hatch, exposing them to the electromagnetic anomaly. Why isn't Locke "unstuck in time" like Desmond?

How did the Black Rock's ledger get to Madagascar, if the ship is on an island in the Pacific?

Theories:

Charles Widmore has something to do with the freighter and does not want Desmond to find his constant and reach Penny. This is why Minkowski wasn't allowed to answer the line Penny phoned in on.

Desmond never had the ability to see the future... his premonitions were actually memories. Turning the fail-safe key disrupted whatever causes affected people to forget everything about the future.

Daniel wasn't allowed to talk to Minkowski after arriving on the island; the only way Minkowski would know to find a constant would be if Daniel told him before leaving which seems doubtful.

Faraday's current constant could be his journal, which may be why he needed to find it in his bag on the island.

Michael is Ben's "man" because Minkowski commented "looks like you guys have a friend on this boat."

• Michael also destroyed the equipment room. He is still working for Ben, but he still is "loyal" to his friends from 815.

The confusion experienced by those who travel between past and future (1996 Desmond freaking out in 2004) is the sickness that Rousseau's team experienced. If her team members were acting the way Desmond was in The Constant, this could be portrayed by someone who did not know what was happening as them going crazy. To protect herself and the life of her then unborn child, she killed these seemingly dangerous crew members.

Walt has been seen places he 'isnt supposed to have been

 

[snoochface]

Well, what about the thing with Ben bringing Locke's father there...in his magic box?

Would Sawyer killing Locke's father invoke the grandfather paradox that Pete mentioned earlier?

 

[snoochface]

This episode explains Walt, Wet Walt, and Tall Walt.

Continuity error? In the pop-up video we got of last season's finale, they said the Lostaways had been on the island for about 100 days. They landed September 22. So wouldn't it be past Christmas Eve at the point of last night's episode?

 

[snoochface]

Has anyone here followed the theory that Desmond and Penny are Adam and Eve? Last night's episode makes that possible, I suppose.


http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/02/desmondpenny-adameve.html

 

[Redguard]

Going forward with the theory of Ben having mastered time travel himself, I'm beginning to think that Ben is his own "man on the boat", having gone forward and back in time just far enough to manipulate and/or help the people that he needs in order to accomplish his goals.

I'm mean, seriously. Look at how long Ben has been away from a computer or screen or phone. If someone were to dictate the dossiers of an entire boat crew to me even a week ago, I'd have forgotten it by now. Yet Ben seems to remember everything down to the most minute detail. Just like how Desmond can remember Penny's phone number "eight years later".

Yup. I've made up my mind. Ben can mentally travel through time just like Desmond. He can show up in places where he shouldn't be (ahem... Walt!).

Ben found his way onto the boat and sabotaged the communications room. Ben went on that boat and left the door open for Sayid and Desmond. Ben went on that boat and researched and memorized the dossiers of the crew.

This is what makes Ben special! This is what attracted Ben to Walt! And what makes Ben loathe Locke so much is the fact that Locke can do the one thing the Ben is probably still waiting to learn how to do....

Spoiler: What Ben can't do

Speak to apparitions... like Jacob!!

 

[snoochface]

Going forward with the theory of Ben having mastered time travel himself, I'm beginning to think that Ben is his own "man on the boat", having gone forward and back in time just far enough to manipulate and/or help the people that he needs in order to accomplish his goals.

I'm mean, seriously. Look at how long Ben has been away from a computer or screen or phone. If someone were to dictate the dossiers of an entire boat crew to me even a week ago, I'd have forgotten it by now. Yet Ben seems to remember everything down to the most minute detail. Just like how Desmond can remember Penny's phone number "eight years later".

Yup. I've made up my mind. Ben can mentally travel through time just like Desmond. He can show up in places where he shouldn't be (ahem... Walt!).

Ben found his way onto the boat and sabotaged the communications room. Ben went on that boat and left the door open for Sayid and Desmond. Ben went on that boat and researched and memorized the dossiers of the crew.

This is what makes Ben special! This is what attracted Ben to Walt! And what makes Ben loathe Locke so much is the fact that Locke can do the one thing the Ben is probably still waiting to learn how to do....

Spoiler: What Ben can't do

Speak to apparitions... like Jacob!!

Excellent theory!

 

[Redguard]

Excellent theory!

I know!! I'm so awesome!

When I dropped Pinkguard off at school this morning, I walked past the Teacher's Lounge and heard them all talking about last night's episode of LOST.

I sooooo wanted to waltz right in there and school them on how incorrect they were about their theories. I consider myself a LOST connaisseur since I'm convinced that I belong to what must be the most elite LOST fanclub on the internet (you guys).

 

[FatBurger]

Yeah, Minkowski said, "Looks like you've got a friend on the boat" or something like that. It has to be Ben's man, but how would he have known to help them? You'd think Ben's man would not necessarily want to help Sayid, of all people, since he beat and tortured Ben.

If it's Michael, then it would make sense.

Why isn't Locke "unstuck in time" like Desmond?

Locke didn't go through the electrical storm.

How did the Black Rock's ledger get to Madagascar, if the ship is on an island in the Pacific?

I wondered that too.

Desmond never had the ability to see the future... his premonitions were actually memories.

This makes some sense to me, but there are a couple of problems:
1. It appears that the Losties are moving quicker through time, rather than slower.
2. We know that it's actual time travel, not just the appearance of time travel.

Would Sawyer killing Locke's father invoke the grandfather paradox that Pete mentioned earlier?

There's only a paradox if Locke killed his father before he (Locke) was born - therefore preventing him from being born, which prevents him from being able to kill his father, which then makes Locke be born again, which allows him to kill his father, which prevents him from being born, which...

 

[FatBurger]

Also, I'm guessing that over time Desmond would have been affected by the electromagnetism in the Swan even without the failsafe - hence the vaccine.

 

[snoochface]

Also, I'm guessing that over time Desmond would have been affected by the electromagnetism in the Swan even without the failsafe - hence the vaccine.

This has to tie in somehow with the pregnancies. They gave that vaccine to Claire, and she continued to give it to Aaron after he was born. The time-speed of the island must affect fetuses as they are growing in the womb, which causes the mothers to die, so was the vaccine intended to attempt to stop that process? Is this related to the "70-year old uterus in a 20-something's body" that they showed Juliet to entice her to take the job?

 

[snoochface]

Is anyone else having issues with this thread not going to the right posts? I keep going back to page 2 (I read 40-posts per page) when I click in, instead of to the most recent posts.

 

[plum]

Does anyone think that Ben's mastered time-travel? As in, when Miles said, "Don't you think I know what you can do?"

I think I might be on board with your theory to a point...
Desmond and Minkowski only travel in their consciousness. Their bodies stay in the same place. Desmond's hand-written notes don't travel with him.

Can Ben somehow call this up with only his mind? Wouldn't the ship have to be part of his memory in order for him to travel back to where he's been before?

So what's the leap between consciousness time travel and bodily time travel?
Clearly, if it's only consciousness time travel, all the passports and money in Ben's desk are superfluous. He can't take it with him.

 

[FatBurger]

I dunno, it's working ok for me.


Here's what I'm stuck on:
1. It's time travel - Desmond went back and talked to Daniel Faraday.

2. It's not time travel, but rather the person THINKS the time is changing - Daniel talks about consciousness a lot, which seems to refer more towards this theory.


Now, the fact that Desmond was able to meet Daniel Faraday, AND Daniel's past was itself changed (verified by the journal) seems to hint towards #1. However, some of the things Daniel says about "conciousness" and the fact that Desmond and Minkowski black out during, seem to hint towards #2. Addittionally (as mentioned already) it makes sense towards the birth thing.

So which is it?

 

[plum]

I dunno, it's working ok for me.


Here's what I'm stuck on:
1. It's time travel - Desmond went back and talked to Daniel Faraday.

2. It's not time travel, but rather the person THINKS the time is changing - Daniel talks about consciousness a lot, which seems to refer more towards this theory.


Now, the fact that Desmond was able to meet Daniel Faraday, AND Daniel's past was itself changed (verified by the journal) seems to hint towards #1. However, some of the things Daniel says about "conciousness" and the fact that Desmond and Minkowski black out during, seem to hint towards #2. Addittionally (as mentioned already) it makes sense towards the birth thing.

So which is it?

oohoohooh...

remember Faraday said "you can't change the future" right? well Desmond went back and convinced Penny to keep her phone # for 8 years and he'd call her on Dec 24... well you can't change the future so Future Penny didn't keep the # based on Desmond's time travel experience, right? she just... kept it. and she took so long answering because she didn't know he promised to call 8 years later.

her response to him saying " you picked up!" was "i've been looking for you for 3 years!" nothing about waiting 8 years for that day...


so yeah, the journal thing is tripping me up too, i think. it doesn't mesh with what i said above... but... gosh i'm confused

 

[FatBurger]

The passports and time travel may be unrelated, however.

 

[plum]

The passports and time travel may be unrelated, however.

true. either way, this man's been off the island in more than one way

 

[Redguard]

Time travel rarely makes sense.

Speaking of which, does anyone remember the series finale of Star Trek: The Next Generation?

I feel like I'm going through all of that all over again. Poor Captain Picard.