LDS Ephesians 2:1-10

[Rescued One]

You said: "The Father does not reside in the lower levels of the celestial kingdom." However, I believe the Father and the Son resides in all three degrees of the celestial kingdom. In order to get into the highest degree of the celestial kingdom it is necessary to obey all of the commandments, but that is not the case with the lower two degrees of the celestial kingdom. Therefore temple marriage is NOT a requirement to enter the lower degrees of the celestial kingdom. That is why temple marriage is a divine commandment and only necessary to get to the highest degree of the celestial kingdom.

Making up your own fake religion won't fix your dilemma!

Those who disobey the commandment of eternal marriage have immortality only and are not worthy to be in the Father's presence. Were you a member all your life? Read this:

"That possibility of an eternal family relationship is what is meant by exaltation and eternal life. This eternal preservation of my family relationship can be my inheritance in God’s kingdom if I will pay the price to achieve it. Even those in the celestial kingdom who have not paid the full price of obedience to attain such further exaltation will have immortality only and not eternal life within God’s family organization.

"Thus, full salvation in its true and full meaning is synonymous with exaltation and eternal life. This inheritance within the actual family of God the Eternal Father, through Jesus Christ, is the burden of the scriptures and should be the goal of every man, woman, and child born upon this earth. This full salvation is obtained only in and through the family unit preserved throughout eternity...

"May God bless you to choose well, for I testify to you that God lives and that his priesthood power is on this earth, by means of which you can obtain your exaltation in his kingdom as his covenant sons and daughters through full obedience to his law. This I testify in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen."
Salvation and Exaltation - Elder Theodore M. Burton

Now, tell me that Elder Theodore M. Burton didn't really explain true doctrine.

 

[Rescued One]

Their own writings. They are full of stupid errors, and stupid lies. Let's you and I sit down and read a section together and I will tell you what is true and what is a stupid lie. Or what is half true, or 3/4 true, or 1/8 true.

Are you kidding? You people contradict your own teachings!

 

[Rescued One]

What do you mean, they went to the wrong place to gather information, they went to Palmyra instead of Manchester which is where the Smiths lived at the time. Do you actually think they could get the right information from the wrong place?

Baloney!

 

[He is the way]

Baloney!

Why not check it out for yourself?

(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:3)

3 I was born in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and five, on the twenty-third day of December, in the town of Sharon, Windsor county, State of Vermont . . . My father, Joseph Smith, Sen., left the State of Vermont, and moved to Palmyra, Ontario (now Wayne) county, in the State of New York, when I was in my tenth year, or thereabouts. In about four years after my father's arrival in Palmyra, he moved with his family into Manchester in the same county of Ontario—

 

[He is the way]

Making up your own fake religion won't fix your dilemma!

Those who disobey the commandment of eternal marriage have immortality only and are not worthy to be in the Father's presence. Were you a member all your life? Read this:

"That possibility of an eternal family relationship is what is meant by exaltation and eternal life. This eternal preservation of my family relationship can be my inheritance in God’s kingdom if I will pay the price to achieve it. Even those in the celestial kingdom who have not paid the full price of obedience to attain such further exaltation will have immortality only and not eternal life within God’s family organization.

"Thus, full salvation in its true and full meaning is synonymous with exaltation and eternal life. This inheritance within the actual family of God the Eternal Father, through Jesus Christ, is the burden of the scriptures and should be the goal of every man, woman, and child born upon this earth. This full salvation is obtained only in and through the family unit preserved throughout eternity...

"May God bless you to choose well, for I testify to you that God lives and that his priesthood power is on this earth, by means of which you can obtain your exaltation in his kingdom as his covenant sons and daughters through full obedience to his law. This I testify in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen."
Salvation and Exaltation - Elder Theodore M. Burton

Now, tell me that Elder Theodore M. Burton didn't really explain true doctrine.

No I am not making up my own religion:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 131:1 - 4)

1 IN the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

I am sure that God's family organization is in the highest kingdom of the celestial kingdom. I am also sure God can and does go where He pleases, which I believe includes the lower kingdoms of the Celestial Kingdom.

 

[mmksparbud]

No I am not making up my own religion:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 131:1 - 4)

1 IN the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

I am sure that God's family organization is in the highest kingdom of the celestial kingdom. I am also sure God can and does go where He pleases, which includes I believe includes the lower kingdoms of the Celestial Kingdom.

This teaching is totally from the imagination of JS. There is no such teaching in the bible. God does not partially save. I have asked before---please state one verse anywhere in the bible that states God partially saves. You are either saved or lost--there is no grey area in between, there are no levels of salvation. In or out of His presence---that is it.

 

[Rescued One]

No I am not making up my own religion:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 131:1 - 4)

1 IN the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

I am sure that God's family organization is in the highest kingdom of the celestial kingdom. I am also sure God can and does go where He pleases, which I believe includes the lower kingdoms of the Celestial Kingdom.

“Half obedience will be rejected as readily as full violation, and maybe quicker, for half rejection and half acceptance is but a sham, an admission of lack of character, a lack of love for Him. It is actually an effort to live on both sides of the line.”
Mark E. Petersen, in Conference Report, Apr. 1982, 21; or Ensign, May 1982, 16

D&C 1
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

D&C 132
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 395

You love quoting verses about keeping commandments and now you try to say that your god will allow you to disobey the commandment to become part of his eternal family! Sure, you're even allowed to become a son of perdition, but what kind of Mormon doesn't love their god enough to obey this commandment?

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, "To enter the celestial and obtain exaltation it is necessary that the whole law be kept...Do you desire to enter the celestial Kingdom and receive eternal life? Then be willing to keep all of the commandments." (The Way to Perfection

"There is no ordinance connected with the gospel of Jesus Christ of greater importance, of more solemn and sacred nature, and more necessary to the eternal joy of man, than marriage."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:58

"Who desires to enter the eternal world and be a servant, when the promise is held out that we may be sons and daughters of God?"
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:64

 

[Rescued One]

No I am not making up my own religion:
I am also sure God can and does go where He pleases, which I believe includes the lower kingdoms of the Celestial Kingdom.

You have no scripture that says he will tolerate the presence of individuals who were disobedient.

 

[He is the way]

“Half obedience will be rejected as readily as full violation, and maybe quicker, for half rejection and half acceptance is but a sham, an admission of lack of character, a lack of love for Him. It is actually an effort to live on both sides of the line.”
Mark E. Petersen, in Conference Report, Apr. 1982, 21; or Ensign, May 1982, 16

D&C 1
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

D&C 132
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

View attachment 254971
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 395

You love quoting verses about keeping commandments and now you try to say that your god will allow you to disobey the commandment to become part of his eternal family! Sure, you're even allowed to become a son of perdition, but what kind of Mormon doesn't love their god enough to obey this commandment?

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, "To enter the celestial and obtain exaltation it is necessary that the whole law be kept...Do you desire to enter the celestial Kingdom and receive eternal life? Then be willing to keep all of the commandments." (The Way to Perfection

"There is no ordinance connected with the gospel of Jesus Christ of greater importance, of more solemn and sacred nature, and more necessary to the eternal joy of man, than marriage."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:58

"Who desires to enter the eternal world and be a servant, when the promise is held out that we may be sons and daughters of God?"
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:64

You said:"You love quoting verses about keeping commandments and now you try to say that your god will allow you to disobey the commandment to become part of his eternal family! Sure, you're even allowed to become a son of perdition, but what kind of Mormon doesn't love their god enough to obey this commandment? " We are not Mormons, we are members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. Every religion has a diversity of people, some willing to keep the commandments and some not willing to keep them. However, God wants EVERYONE to keep His commandments. It really doesn't matter who a person is or what group they belong to those who reject the commandments are rejecting God's word. In doing so they are also rejecting the blessings they might have had if they would have kept the commandments.

 

[Rescued One]

You said:"You love quoting verses about keeping commandments and now you try to say that your god will allow you to disobey the commandment to become part of his eternal family! Sure, you're even allowed to become a son of perdition, but what kind of Mormon doesn't love their god enough to obey this commandment? " We are not Mormons, we are members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. Every religion has a diversity of people, some willing to keep the commandments and some not willing to keep them. However, God wants EVERYONE to keep His commandments. It really doesn't matter who a person is or what group they belong to those who reject the commandments are rejecting God's word. In doing so they are also rejecting the blessings they might have had if they would have kept the commandments.

"Half obedience" in that quote refers to the LDS/Mormon who rejects the commandment to be married for eternity. They cannot be sons and daughters in the Church of the Firstborn. This is about Mormonism not some other group. Other religions don't even have the New Testament unless that religion is Christianity.

 

[Rescued One]

“Half obedience will be rejected as readily as full violation, and maybe quicker, for half rejection and half acceptance is but a sham, an admission of lack of character, a lack of love for Him. It is actually an effort to live on both sides of the line.”
Mark E. Petersen, in Conference Report, Apr. 1982, 21; or Ensign, May 1982, ....

You love quoting verses about keeping commandments and now you try to say that your god will allow you to disobey the commandment to become part of his eternal family! Sure, you're even allowed to become a son of perdition, but what kind of Mormon doesn't love their god enough to obey this commandment?

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, "To enter the celestial and obtain exaltation it is necessary that the whole law be kept...Do you desire to enter the celestial Kingdom and receive eternal life? Then be willing to keep all of the commandments." (The Way to Perfection

"There is no ordinance connected with the gospel of Jesus Christ of greater importance, of more solemn and sacred nature, and more necessary to the eternal joy of man, than marriage."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:58

"Who desires to enter the eternal world and be a servant, when the promise is held out that we may be sons and daughters of God?"
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:64

Not addressed by He is the way.

 

[mmksparbud]

You said:"You love quoting verses about keeping commandments and now you try to say that your god will allow you to disobey the commandment to become part of his eternal family! Sure, you're even allowed to become a son of perdition, but what kind of Mormon doesn't love their god enough to obey this commandment? " We are not Mormons, we are members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. Every religion has a diversity of people, some willing to keep the commandments and some not willing to keep them. However, God wants EVERYONE to keep His commandments. It really doesn't matter who a person is or what group they belong to those who reject the commandments are rejecting God's word. In doing so they are also rejecting the blessings they might have had if they would have kept the commandments.

No unclean thing can be in the presence of God. You truly do not know who God is. Fallen angels saved?!! Totally unbiblical. They, with anyone who is an unrepentant sinner will be thrown into the lake of fire. Do you not understand what that fire is???

Exo_24:17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
Isa_29:6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
Isa_30:27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
Isa_30:30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
Isa_33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
sa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

To be in the presence of God without His protection is to be in the midst of a devouring fire. As in the burning bush, as in the fire with Daniels' companions--you must stand in His flame or die in it---0-0there is no getting around. No hiding from Him, no partial protection.

sa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Psa 139:11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

There are no levels of salvation--it is lost or saved. It is in His protective presence or out of it--without His covering you---nothing can live in His presence, and nothing can live outside His protection, even the angels have the covering cherubs--Lucifer was once one. No one will, be in some corner of heaven where Gold is not present.

 

[BigDaddy4]

What do you mean, they went to the wrong place to gather information, they went to Palmyra instead of Manchester which is where the Smiths lived at the time. Do you actually think they could get the right information from the wrong place?

You still haven't presented any evidence on what information was gathered "in the wrong place". Manchester is only about 7 miles from Palmyra. Is it your belief that all the "correct" information (whatever that is...) is contained solely in Manchester? Please start making some sense...

 

[BigDaddy4]

Their own writings. They are full of stupid errors, and stupid lies. Let's you and I sit down and read a section together and I will tell you what is true and what is a stupid lie. Or what is half true, or 3/4 true, or 1/8 true.

Again, no evidence provided to support your obviously biased position.

 

[He is the way]

"Half obedience" in that quote refers to the LDS/Mormon who rejects the commandment to be married for eternity. They cannot be sons and daughters in the Church of the Firstborn. This is about Mormonism not some other group. Other religions don't even have the New Testament unless that religion is Christianity.

I will not post all of the article as it is a long article, but here is some of it:

Did He not command us to seek perfection, even as our Father which is in heaven is perfect? (See Matt. 5:48.) He means it. These are His laws. They are not mental exercises. They are commandments, and He will hold us personally accountable for our obedience or disobedience.

If we receive these commandments with a doubtful heart and obey them with slothfulness, we can expect only condemnation. (See D&C 58:29.)

We must take a positive approach to our religion and literally make it a way of life, a plan of daily action. We must reform ourselves day by day along gospel lines, for this is the time of our probation and it is now that we must prepare to meet our God. (See Alma 34:32.)

This was told often in the Book of Mormon, you recall, but most of us have just read that as a matter of rhetoric. But, brothers and sisters, today is the day of our probation, just as it was for them in their day; and today is the time when we must prepare to meet our God. Who knows whether we will be alive today or tomorrow or the day after? When will we face almighty God?

Do we suppose that we can enter His presence if we are offensive to Him? And what will make us offensive? It will be our own stubbornness which has kept us from following His plan. It will be our own refusal to put Him first in our lives. It will be because we love darkness better than light.

Why do we suppose that He asks us to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness? (See Matt. 6:33.) Would He do this if He did not mean it? Half obedience will be rejected as readily as full violation, and maybe quicker, for half rejection and half acceptance is but a sham, an admission of lack of character, a lack of love for Him. It is actually an effort to live on both sides of the line.

We need not suppose that we can serve two masters. If we try, we may be sure of one thing—that our master will not be the Christ, for He will not accept us on those terms.

I just don't see how this contradicts what I said

 

[Rescued One]

No unclean thing can be in the presence of God. You truly do not know who God is. Fallen angels saved?!! Totally unbiblical. They, with anyone who is an unrepentant sinner will be thrown into the lake of fire. Do you not understand what that fire is???

D&C 1
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels* did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

*former humans who refused to be married for eternity (the good guys become gods and goddesses)

 

[Rescued One]

I will not post all of the article as it is a long article, but here is some of it:

Did He not command us to seek perfection, even as our Father which is in heaven is perfect? (See Matt. 5:48.) He means it. These are His laws. They are not mental exercises. They are commandments, and He will hold us personally accountable for our obedience or disobedience.

If we receive these commandments with a doubtful heart and obey them with slothfulness, we can expect only condemnation. (See D&C 58:29.)

We must take a positive approach to our religion and literally make it a way of life, a plan of daily action. We must reform ourselves day by day along gospel lines, for this is the time of our probation and it is now that we must prepare to meet our God. (See Alma 34:32.)

This was told often in the Book of Mormon, you recall, but most of us have just read that as a matter of rhetoric. But, brothers and sisters, today is the day of our probation, just as it was for them in their day; and today is the time when we must prepare to meet our God. Who knows whether we will be alive today or tomorrow or the day after? When will we face almighty God?

Do we suppose that we can enter His presence if we are offensive to Him? And what will make us offensive? It will be our own stubbornness which has kept us from following His plan. It will be our own refusal to put Him first in our lives. It will be because we love darkness better than light.

Why do we suppose that He asks us to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness? (See Matt. 6:33.) Would He do this if He did not mean it? Half obedience will be rejected as readily as full violation, and maybe quicker, for half rejection and half acceptance is but a sham, an admission of lack of character, a lack of love for Him. It is actually an effort to live on both sides of the line.

We need not suppose that we can serve two masters. If we try, we may be sure of one thing—that our master will not be the Christ, for He will not accept us on those terms.

I just don't see how this contradicts what I said

The Book of Mormon never says you will spend eternity with the Father if you disobey the commandment of eternal marriage.

 

[He is the way]

No unclean thing can be in the presence of God. You truly do not know who God is. Fallen angels saved?!! Totally unbiblical. They, with anyone who is an unrepentant sinner will be thrown into the lake of fire. Do you not understand what that fire is???

Exo_24:17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
Isa_29:6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
Isa_30:27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
Isa_30:30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
Isa_33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
sa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

To be in the presence of God without His protection is to be in the midst of a devouring fire. As in the burning bush, as in the fire with Daniels' companions--you must stand in His flame or die in it---0-0there is no getting around. No hiding from Him, no partial protection.

sa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Psa 139:11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

There are no levels of salvation--it is lost or saved. It is in His protective presence or out of it--without His covering you---nothing can live in His presence, and nothing can live outside His protection, even the angels have the covering cherubs--Lucifer was once one. No one will, be in some corner of heaven where Gold is not present.

I agree with much of what you said

You said: "Fallen angels saved?!! Totally unbiblical. " Perhaps some will be.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 12:2)

You said: "There are no levels of salvation"

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

 

[He is the way]

The Book of Mormon never says you will spend eternity with the Father if you disobey the commandment of eternal marriage.

Did I say "eternity with the Father"? I believe I said "A divine commandment differs from the other commandments and is not needed to enter the two lower degrees of the celestial heavens where God resides."
God does reside in the celestial heavens but I didn't mean that He resides in the two lower kingdoms of the celestial heavens, although He can go there.

 

[mmksparbud]

I agree with much of what you said

You said: "Fallen angels saved?!! Totally unbiblical. " Perhaps some will be.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 12:2)

You said: "There are no levels of salvation"

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Heavens---that is what is called the firmament---the sky above. Then there is the 3rd heaven---which is where God dwells---in between is outer space. This does not say there are 3 levels of salvation--there is only one level---saved.
There is no perhaps some fallen angels will be saved.

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Their judgement is sealed.