LDS Ephesians 2:1-10

[Rescued One]

There is probably 1,000 Christian variations as to how the second coming will take place and as many variations as to how the resurrection will take place and who will be resurrected when and what will happen to the righteous, and what will happen to the wicked.

Again, I have to ask, we all read the bible, but we have 1,000 variations as to what is going to happen. Interesting, don't you think?

We are not clones. Therefore we don't think alike. Some are following the Shepherd; some are not!

 

[Peter1000]

We are not clones. Therefore we don't think alike. Some are following the Shepherd; some are not!

So which churches are following the Shepherd, and which churches are not?

Which churches are telling the truth about what is going to happen during and after the resurrection? Which churches are not?

 

[Peter1000]

^^^ These you mention are actual positions held by a church, pastor or theologian ... or are you including lay-speculators?

If you include the later (lay-speculators) how many Mormon views are there on Heavenly Mom?

Go to a Christian book store and see the many books on the subject, all based on the bible.

Do not the church, pastor or theologian speculate on these end day activities. Get 100 pastors and theologians in a room, and see how the consensus goes. Very difficult to come to consensus.

 

[Rescued One]

So which churches are following the Shepherd, and which churches are not?

Which churches are telling the truth about what is going to happen during and after the resurrection? Which churches are not?

Man looks on the outward appearance; God looks on the heart. Christians read their Bibles.

 

[Rescued One]

Go to a Christian book store and see the many books on the subject, all based on the bible.

Do not the church, pastor or theologian speculate on these end day activities. Get 100 pastors and theologians in a room, and see how the consensus goes. Very difficult to come to consensus.

I read my Bible and I have the Holy Spirit.

 

[Peter1000]

I read my Bible and I have the Holy Spirit.

That is wonderful. Keep it up.

 

[Peter1000]

Man looks on the outward appearance; God looks on the heart. Christians read their Bibles.

Well, from reading the bible, I hope you are ready for the second coming of Christ, it may be in our lifetime.

 

[mmksparbud]

Well, from reading the bible, I hope you are ready for the second coming of Christ, it may be in our lifetime.

I pray it will be so!!

 

[Peter1000]

I pray it will be so!!

me too.

 

[ViaCrucis]

We believe that salvation is by grace after we show our love for Jesus Christ:

Interesting, we Lutherans believe that salvation is by grace alone because God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were yet still sinners Christ died for us, because even though we were God's enemies, God loved us and redeemed us out of nothing but His kindness toward sinners. After all, as St. John says, we love because He first loved us.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[He is the way]

Interesting, we Lutherans believe that salvation is by grace alone because God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were yet still sinners Christ died for us, because even though we were God's enemies, God loved us and redeemed us out of nothing but His kindness toward sinners. After all, as St. John says, we love because He first loved us.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes He does love us all, but who loves Him?:
(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes He does love us all, but who loves Him?:
(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

I thought we were talking about salvation. I mean if you want to change the topic to the importance of a life of obedience we can do that, but it has absolutely nothing to do with our salvation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[He is the way]

I thought we were talking about salvation. I mean if you want to change the topic to the importance of a life of obedience we can do that, but it has absolutely nothing to do with our salvation.

-CryptoLutheran

I suppose it depends on what you believe salvation to be. Everyone will be resurrected:
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:22)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

However we know that the goats do not go where the sheep go:
(New Testament | Matthew 25:31 - 46)

31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I suppose it depends on what you believe salvation to be. Everyone will be resurrected:

Sure, that's a huge topic. But if I had to reduce it to a particular bite, I'd probably quote Romans 5:1, with the phrase "peace with God". Words like "reconciliation" feed directly into that, and then we can get deeper into the substance of it by speaking about the depth of the concept of shalom. To share in God's shalom is to share in the hospitality of God, the invitation of God, the giving of God; to be invited into and dwell in the house of God, to be seated at the table of God, to be granted the favor and protection of God.

God's peace does not merely mean the end of hostilities, though it certainly does mean that; it also means the hand of friendship and family, but more than that, it means the grace of family and adoption. To come and have koinonia with God; and this koinonial intimacy which we have with God, in Christ, by the Spirit builds us up as a koinonia people. This peace of God does not simply join us to Him, it joins us to one another, and comes to include the whole of creation. Hence the ancient and great vision of the Prophets, that the lion shall eat straw like an ox, that the wolf shall lay down with the lamb, that a child shall play near the viper's den without fear. For ultimately, "the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea." (Habakkuk 2:14) "And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken." (Isaiah 40:5)

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Peter1000]

Sure, that's a huge topic. But if I had to reduce it to a particular bite, I'd probably quote Romans 5:1, with the phrase "peace with God". Words like "reconciliation" feed directly into that, and then we can get deeper into the substance of it by speaking about the depth of the concept of shalom. To share in God's shalom is to share in the hospitality of God, the invitation of God, the giving of God; to be invited into and dwell in the house of God, to be seated at the table of God, to be granted the favor and protection of God.

God's peace does not merely mean the end of hostilities, though it certainly does mean that; it also means the hand of friendship and family, but more than that, it means the grace of family and adoption. To come and have koinonia with God; and this koinonial intimacy which we have with God, in Christ, by the Spirit builds us up as a koinonia people. This peace of God does not simply join us to Him, it joins us to one another, and comes to include the whole of creation. Hence the ancient and great vision of the Prophets, that the lion shall eat straw like an ox, that the wolf shall lay down with the lamb, that a child shall play near the viper's den without fear. For ultimately, "the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea." (Habakkuk 2:14) "And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken." (Isaiah 40:5)

-CryptoLutheran

If I had to reduce it to a particular bite , I'd choose and quote John 14:15
John 14:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If we asked each person on the forum to reduce their belief in salvation to a particular bite, then lay them together row after row, we would get a real good look at what salvation looks like.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If I had to reduce it to a particular bite , I'd choose and quote John 14:15
John 14:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If we asked each person on the forum to reduce their belief in salvation to a particular bite, then lay them together row after row, we would get a real good look at what salvation looks like.

Why would you reduce the concept of salvation to something that has nothing to do with salvation though? I mean you wouldn't reduce the idea of language down to the phases of the moon would you? I mean it wouldn't make a lick of sense.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Peter1000]

Why would you reduce the concept of salvation to something that has nothing to do with salvation though? I mean you wouldn't reduce the idea of language down to the phases of the moon would you? I mean it wouldn't make a lick of sense.

-CryptoLutheran

You reduced your concept of salvation to a particular bite, so did I, so could everyone.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You reduced your concept of salvation to a particular bite, so did I, so could everyone.

Yeah, but yours has literally nothing to do with salvation. Are you perhaps confused about what the topic of conversation is?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Peter1000]

Yeah, but yours has literally nothing to do with salvation. Are you perhaps confused about what the topic of conversation is?

-CryptoLutheran

No, I am not confused. My view of salvation is different than yours. My view has a lot more to it than just believing, and the second I believe I am saved. I do not believe in OSAS. I believe you must keep the commandments and endure to the end, then the grace of Jesus Christ can lift you up unto eternal life.

Thats why I said, the combination of particular bites may engulf the totality of salvation.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No, I am not confused. My view of salvation is different than yours. My view has a lot more to it than just believing, and the second I believe I am saved. I do not believe in OSAS. I believe you must keep the commandments and endure to the end, then the grace of Jesus Christ can lift you up unto eternal life.

Thats why I said, the combination of particular bites may engulf the totality of salvation.

I don't believe in OSAS either.

I also don't believe that salvation is about scoring brownie points.

I believe in God's kindness toward sinners.

-CrpytoLutheran