LDS Ephesians 2:1-10

[Yodas_Prodigy1]

Could I get a LDS to explain this passage to me?

Ephesians 2

1 And although you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path, according to the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom all of us also formerly lived out our lives in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath even as the rest…

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— 6 and he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 to demonstrate in the coming ages the surpassing wealth of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi @Yodas_Prodigy1, I'm not Mormon, so I won't be answering your OP question, but I see that you are a new member, so WELCOME TO CF

God bless you! (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)

--David

 

[He is the way]

Could I get a LDS to explain this passage to me?

Ephesians 2

1 And although you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path, according to the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom all of us also formerly lived out our lives in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath even as the rest…

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— 6 and he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 to demonstrate in the coming ages the surpassing wealth of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

People who were formerly sinners can be forgiven of their sins through the grace (atonement) of Jesus Christ by faith. Works alone can not save us although we are ordained unto good works (our works can not save us) neither are we saved without works.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Edited - Off topic post

 

[Rescued One]

.

 

[St_Worm2]

Works alone can not save us although we are ordained unto good works (our works can not save us) neither are we saved without works.

One of the LDS articles of faith says:

Articles of Faith 1:3
Pearl of Great Price

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.​

According to this, what Jesus did by dying for us on the Cross makes salvation possible, but that we are actually saved (or lost) by things that we do (or that we fail to do), yes?

While I can see that you have spoken correctly about what your church believes/teaches, the LDS way of salvation is ~not~ by grace (not by the UN-merited favor of God). Rather, the LDS Article of Faith above tells us that Christ's atonement must be earned or merited by us .. by [our] obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel .. if we want to be saved.

So LDS salvation is actually all about our works, isn't it, because in a very real sense it's 'our' works that save us (or the lack thereof that condemns us), yes?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - how do LDS know when they've done enough obedient works to feel assured that they are saved? Is there a checklist of some kind perhaps?

Romans 11
6 If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.​

 

[Rescued One]

Could I get a LDS to explain this passage to me?

Ephesians 2

1 And although you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path, according to the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom all of us also formerly lived out our lives in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath even as the rest…

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— 6 and he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 to demonstrate in the coming ages the surpassing wealth of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

The Mormons who post here are unlikely to go into detail on that. And they don't even discuss it online as far as I can tell.

2 Nephi 25:23
“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

Because Mormons are putting forth a stronger than ever effort to pull Christians in, you really need to read this:

2 Nephi 25:23 – A Distinctive Mormon Passage on Salvation

I BEG CHRISTIANS TO READ THE ARTICLE AT THAT LINK.

 

[Rescued One]

One of your LDS articles of faith says:

Articles of Faith 1:3
Pearl of Great Price

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.​

According to this, what Jesus did by dying on the Cross makes salvation possible, but we are actually saved (or lost) by things that ~we~ do (or that we fail to do), yes?

While I can see that you have spoken correctly about what your church believes/teaches, the LDS way of salvation is ~not~ by grace* (not by the UN-merited favor of God). Rather, the LDS Article of Faith above tells us that Christ's atonement must be earned or merited by us, by [our] obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel, if we want to be saved.

So LDS salvation is actually all about our works, because in a very real sense, it's our works that save us, or the lack thereof that condemns us, yes?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - how do LDS know when they've done enough obedient works to feel assured that they are saved? Is there a checklist of some kind perhaps?

Romans 11
6 If it is by grace*, then it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
.​

They have a conditional assurance if their church deems them worthy of the Second Anointing in the temple. However:

"Caution: Exercise caution while discussing the doctrine of having our calling and election made sure. Avoid speculation. Use only the sources given here and in the student manual. Do not attempt in any way to discuss or answer questions about the second anointing."
Chapter 19: Eternal Life

 

[St_Worm2]

They have a conditional assurance if their church deems them worthy of the Second Annionting in the temple.

"Second Anointing" What's that?

 

[Rescued One]

Those who make their calling and election sure inherit eternal life.
The Second Anointing is given in the temple.

From 2 Nephi 25:23 – A Distinctive Mormon Passage on Salvation :

Under the heading “2 Nephi 25:23—We Are Saved by Grace, after All We Can Do”, the currently used CES manual Book of Mormon Student Study Guide reads,

“We are saved by the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We must, however, come unto Christ on His terms in order to obtain all the blessings that He freely offers us. We come unto Christ by doing “all we can do” to remember Him, keep our covenants with Him, and obey His commandments (see D&C 20:77, 79; see also Abraham 3:25).” (p. 53)

From Doctrine and Covenants 130 :

Doctrine and Covenants 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

My apologies but I have to leave now.

 

[Rescued One]

"Second Anointing" What's that?

Here you go:

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V16N01_12.pdf

 

[He is the way]

One of the LDS articles of faith says:

Articles of Faith 1:3
Pearl of Great Price

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.​

According to this, what Jesus did by dying for us on the Cross makes salvation possible, but that we are actually saved (or lost) by things that we do (or that we fail to do), yes?

While I can see that you have spoken correctly about what your church believes/teaches, the LDS way of salvation is ~not~ by grace (not by the UN-merited favor of God). Rather, the LDS Article of Faith above tells us that Christ's atonement must be earned or merited by us .. by [our] obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel .. if we want to be saved.

So LDS salvation is actually all about our works, isn't it, because in a very real sense it's 'our' works that save us (or the lack thereof that condemns us), yes?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - how do LDS know when they've done enough obedient works to feel assured that they are saved? Is there a checklist of some kind perhaps?

Romans 11
6 If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.​

We believe that salvation is by grace after we show our love for Jesus Christ:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
(New Testament | John 14:21 - 24)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

We believe the commandments are love and based entirely on love. Jesus taught the true way to love our neighbor and who our neighbor is. He taught that it is better to be a sheep than a goat.

There is no list that I know of except the one listed in the Bible:
(New Testament | Matthew 25:34 - 36)

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

 

[Rescued One]

Mormon salvation is rewarded after they've obeyed the laws and ordinances that are required. They could explain this but apparently don't want to --- is it a secret?

"Exaltation(godhood) is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.


"If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children (see D&C 14:7)....

"Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, 'All things are theirs' (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62). WHERE'S THE HOLY GHOST?
2. They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23).
3. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase. (children)
4. They will receive a fulness of joy.
5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation,comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:36; italics in original).

Chapter 47: Exaltation


What blessings await those who live worthy of exaltation? (Godhood, having all things subject to them, having angels subject to them, having all power, living with Jesus.) Point out that just as Jesus Christ was promised all that the Father has, we can also receive all power and dominion, becoming creators of other spirits and other worlds.
“Lesson 29: Exaltation,” Young Women Manual 2, 1993, p. 110

In the Young Women Manual? Mormons don't even know Heavenly Mother's name or how many wives her husband has!

“The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fullness of his kingdom. In other words, we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring.”
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 2, p.48, (also quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, p. 197, copyright 1976, 1992 by Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

 

[Yodas_Prodigy1]

Hi @Yodas_Prodigy1, I'm not Mormon, so I won't be answering your OP question, but I see that you are a new member, so WELCOME TO CF

God bless you! (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)

--David

Thanks... I just needed a change if forums... So, here I am...

 

[Yodas_Prodigy1]

People who were formerly sinners can be forgiven of their sins through the grace (atonement) of Jesus Christ by faith. Works alone can not save us although we are ordained unto good works (our works can not save us) neither are we saved without works.

Thanks. I think you misunderstood my request. Could you explain each individual verse and how they are impacted or inter-related to the other verses. I think verses 1 through 10 are a cohesive message... Let me know what you think about those verses...

 

[Rescued One]

Are Mormon commandments love

Requirements for Exaltation

The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now (see Alma 34:32–34). President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel and all its covenants; and take upon us the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and the understanding of the truth; and ‘live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God’” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His [biblical and many extra-biblical]commandments.

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

1. We must be baptized.
   (into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)
2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4. We must receive the temple endowment.
5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
Chapter 47: Exaltation

...More than TEN MORE are listed, but that is also an incomplete list.

 

[Yodas_Prodigy1]

We believe that salvation is by grace after we show our love for Jesus Christ:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
(New Testament | John 14:21 - 24)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

We believe the commandments are love and based entirely on love. Jesus taught the true way to love our neighbor and who our neighbor is. He taught that it is better to be a sheep than a goat.

There is no list that I know of except the one listed in the Bible:
(New Testament | Matthew 25:34 - 36)

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Could you please define grace?

 

[Peter1000]

Sorry, my mistake

 

[Peter1000]

Could I get a LDS to explain this passage to me?

Ephesians 2

1 And although you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path, according to the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom all of us also formerly lived out our lives in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath even as the rest…

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— 6 and he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 to demonstrate in the coming ages the surpassing wealth of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

The Church of Jesus Christ understands the concept of grace. This is a very good scripture about grace, and we believe it to be true. It stands for itself as read.

All men also need to understand the will of God, and to be engaged in the good works that Christ Jesus prepared beforehand so we may do them.

Here is a question for you: If you do not do the good works that Christ Jesus has prepared beforehand so you may do them, will he offer you his grace?

 

[Peter1000]

Are Mormon commandments love

Requirements for Exaltation

The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now (see Alma 34:32–34). President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel and all its covenants; and take upon us the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and the understanding of the truth; and ‘live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God’” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His [biblical and many extra-biblical]commandments.

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

1. We must be baptized.
   (into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)
2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4. We must receive the temple endowment.
5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
Chapter 47: Exaltation

...More than TEN MORE are listed, but that is also an incomplete list.

That is why the Lord restored his true church, to teach the world what was actually required to be saved. Since the death of the apostles in the first century, the gospel of salvation has been watered down to just about this: believe in Jesus, and the second you believe, you are saved, no matter what you do for the rest of your life. That is not what Jesus taught. That is not what the bible teaches. That is not what the apostles taught.

For instance:
Matthew 6:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If the Father does not forgive you of your sins, because you refuse to forgive all men of their sins against you, you will not be free of sin, and you will not be saved in the kingdom of God. Right?

So how do we reconcile this with by grace are you saved.....?