Enoch and Elijah

[LivingWordUnity]

Because they doubted the prophecies, the Pharisees and Sadducees could not see the signs of the times of the First Coming. They kept demanding for more signs when the signs had already been given.

And the Pharisees and Sad′ducees came, and to test him they asked him to show them a sign from heaven. He answered them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather; for the sky is red.’ And in the morning, ‘It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed. - Matt 16:1-4​

 

[pdudgeon]

That is a false statement.

not so.

 

[MikeK]

And the Pharisees and Sad′ducees came, and to test him they asked him to show them a sign from heaven. He answered them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather; for the sky is red.’ And in the morning, ‘It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed. - Matt 16:1-4

Yes, like I said, maybe our Popes just can't see these signs, or maybe try can and they're keeping it a big secret because reasons. These are possibilities.

 

[MikeK]

not so.

I have become convinced of many things when reasonable, trustworthy people brought truths to my attention. I can't think of any statement made by either Pope Benedict or Pope Francis that I don't agree with in its entire context. You can speculate on my personal likelihood to ascent to a teaching from a legitimate authority if you think it's a good use of your time and that it's what Christ desires from you, but I dare say that I know me better than you do.

 

[pdudgeon]

Yes, I think you're right. Both men busy themselves with service to Christ and probably don't see constant speculation as a good use of their limited time.

so in spite of the quotes posted here of both men warning of the times we live in, you will reject their statements out of hand because they don't agree with your views on the subject of prophecy?
Both men did and do busy themselves with service to the church, (you really should study Ps. 23 sometime) but part of that service for any good shepherd is that of protecting the flock from the snares of satan.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

That is a false statement.

If you don't believe it coming from Pope St. Pius X why would you believe it coming from Pope Benedict XVI? Plus, you already said that you don't think that Pope Benedict XVI is a very good biblical scholar. So if he would have said it as directly as St. Pius X did, you would simply say that he is wrong.

 

[pdudgeon]

Yes, like I said, maybe our Popes just can't see these signs, or maybe try can and they're keeping it a big secret because reasons. These are possibilities.

no one keeps the end times a secret, and only once in biblical history, and once in recent history (fatima) was such a move ever directed by God.
Even that biblical direction to Daniel was for a limited time only--until the end times themselves, and the same with Fatima--for a limited time only.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Satan knows that his time is short, and he hates being reminded of it.

"Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!” - Rev 12:12

 

[MikeK]

so in spite of the quotes posted here of both men warning of the times we live in, you will reject their statements out of hand because they don't agree with your views on the subject of prophecy?
Both men did and do busy themselves with service to the church, (you really should study Ps. 23 sometime) but part of that service for any good shepherd is that of protecting the flock from the snares of satan.

I haven't rejected any of their statements, you are falsely accusing me. I agree with what they said and I note also what they did not say.

 

[pdudgeon]

Because they doubted the prophecies, the Pharisees and Sadducees could not see the signs of the times of the First Coming.

And the Pharisees and Sad′ducees came, and to test him they asked him to show them a sign from heaven. He answered them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather; for the sky is red.’ And in the morning, ‘It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed. - Matt 16:1-4​

BINGO! see, that's what happens when men reject the signs of the times that would warn them of things to come. With Jesus standing right in front of them, they still
didn't see, and refused to acknowledge their own salvation when it was within a hand's reach--soooo close!
All that prophesy of all the ages happening right there in front of them--Jesus fulfilling prophecy that they should have known--and they were too pigheaded and puffed
up in themselves to see the beauty and the glory in front of them.

poor sad men. such unbelieveable glory they missed out on. it's literally a crying shame.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Added emphasis for the following quote from the Vatican:

"Among the alarming developments of these years has been the widespread increase of pornography and wanton violence in the media. Books and magazines, recordings, the cinema, the theatre, television, videocassettes, advertising displays and even telecommunications frequently offer a representation of violent behaviour or of permissiveness in sexual activity that reaches the point of being openly pornographic and morally offensive. As reflections of the dark side of a human nature marred by sin, pornography and the exaltation of violence are age-old realities of the human condition. In the past quarter century, however, they have taken on new dimensions and have become serious social problems. At a time of widespread and unfortunate confusion about moral norms, the communications media have made pornography and violence accessible to a vastly expanded audience, including young people and even children, and a problem which at one time was confined mainly to wealthy countries has now begun, via the communications media, to corrupt moral values in developing nations." - Pontifical Council for Social Communications (1989)​

There was always sin, but it was not always like this.

 

[pdudgeon]

Satan knows that his time is short, and he hates being reminded of it.

"Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!” - Rev 12:12

then he's really gonna hate this thread!

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Here's something that Pope Francis said about our times:

"Therefore today we pray especially for the Christians who are discriminated against on account of the witness they bear to Christ and to the Gospel. Let us remain close to these brothers and sisters who, like St Stephen, are unjustly accused and made the objects of various kinds of violence. Unfortunately, I am sure they are more numerous today than in the early days of the Church. There are so many! This occurs especially where religious freedom is still not guaranteed or fully realized. However, it also happens in countries and areas where on paper freedom and human rights are protected, but where in fact believers, and especially Christians, face restrictions and discrimination." - Pope Francis

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Before he became Pope, here's what St. John Paul II said:

"We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has ever experienced. I do not think that the wide circle of the American Society, or the whole wide circle of the Christian Community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-church, between the gospel and the anti-gospel, between Christ and the antichrist. The confrontation lies within the plans of Divine Providence. It is, therefore, in God’s Plan, and it must be a trial which the Church must take up, and face courageously…"

- Cardinal Karol Wojtyla (future Pope St. John Paul II)

Source:
Catholic Exchange

 

[MikeK]

If you don't believe it coming from Pope St. Pius X why would you believe it coming from Pope Benedict XVI? Plus, you already said that you don't think that Pope Benedict XVI is a very good biblical scholar. So if he would have said it as directly as St. Pius X did, you would simply say that he is wrong.

You should not lie. I did not say that I don't think Pope Benedict was a very good Biblican scholar. I don't disagree with St. Pius X's statement. I disagree with people who claim to be Christians but preoccupy themselves with guessing when the end is and who they antichrist is (without even having the gall to share their beliefs) to an extent that outpaces the service that they are called to. I'm not saying you do that of course, it is possible that you devote much of your time to service of your neighbors.

 

[MikeK]

Before he became Pope, here's what St. John Paul II said:

"We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has ever experienced. I do not think that the wide circle of the American Society, or the whole wide circle of the Christian Community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-church, between the gospel and the anti-gospel, between Christ and the antichrist. The confrontation lies within the plans of Divine Providence. It is, therefore, in God’s Plan, and it must be a trial which the Church must take up, and face courageously…"

- Cardinal Karol Wojtyla (future Pope St. John Paul II)

Source:
Catholic Exchange

Heh. What was Cardinal Wojtyla referencing?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Added emphasis in the following quotes:

"Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." - 2 Thess 2:3-4

"Is it difficult for us to see clearly reflected here the spirit of the modern rebellion against God and God's law? The leaving behind of everything we once depended on and the will to a freedom without limits?" - Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), Jesus of Nazareth - Vol I (p. 204)

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Here's something else that Pope Benedict XVI wrote in one of his books:

"If we open our eyes, isn't what is said in the parable [of the wicked tenants] actually a description of our present world? Isn't this precisely the logic of the modern age, of our age? Let us declare that God is dead, then we ourselves will be God. At last we no longer belong to anyone else; rather, we are simply the owners of ourselves and of the world. At last we can do what we please. We get rid of God; there is no measuring rod above us; we ourselves are our only measure. The 'vineyard' belongs to us. What happens to man and the world next? We are already beginning to see it..." - Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), Jesus of Nazareth - Vol I, p. 257

"Who could fail to see here a description of our world as well, in which the Christian is threatened by an anonymous atmosphere, by 'something in the air' that wants to make the faith seem ludicrous and absurd to him? And who could fail to see the poisoning of the spiritual climate all over the world that threatens the dignity of man, indeed his very existence? The individual human being, and even communities of human beings, seem to be hopelessly at the mercy of such powers." - Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), Jesus of Nazareth - Vol I, p. 175

 

[MikeK]

Yes, of course, any rebellion that a Pope recognizes must be /the/ Rebellion. Have an Pope's ever talked about other times of Rebellion, or other ideas or practices that were previously unknown and issued similar statements, or are such statements without precedent? For instance, were similar statements ever made regarding Protestantism, or the Crusades, or the great schism? I don't expect you to sincerely research that, of course, I'm just talking

 

[pdudgeon]

You should not lie. I did not say that I don't think Pope Benedict was a very good Biblican scholar. I don't disagree with St. Pius X's statement. I disagree with people who claim to be Christians but preoccupy themselves with guessing when the end is and who they antichrist is (without even having the gall to share their beliefs) to an extent that outpaces the service that they are called to. I'm not saying you do that of course, it is possible that you devote much of your time to service of your neighbors.

Ah, then you would also disagree with the disciples and their actions in asking Christ when the end would come,
what the signs would be, and when He was coming back???

as for the rest of that quote above,^^ we here do not hold positions in the church that would warrant our publishing the identity of the anti-christ.
do not try to suck us into responsibilities that have not been given to us by God.