Enoch and Elijah

[LivingWordUnity]

your post reminds me of the time that Jesus visited the house of Mary and Martha, and their bother, Lazarus.
Martha was so busy running around doing things and serving everyone. She saw Mary sitting at the feet of Jesus, listening
to him and she became irate. She complained about this to Jesus, and He was the one who set Martha straight.

Loving God is the first thing that we have to do. Our service to others then is born from that love, and is natural result and expression of that love.
If we try and reverse the process--serving first and loving last--then we are serving from our own strength and for our own glory.

service to others runs the same way a car does.
you have to fill the tank with gas first, before the car will go anywhere.
Cars are designed to run on gas, just as we are designed to run on the love of God.

Actually, Martha was not anything like MikeK.

Martha was humble and did not doubt the prophecies of Sacred Scripture.

"Martha said to him, 'I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.' Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?' She said to him, 'Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world.'” - Jn 11:24-27

 

[pdudgeon]

Actually, Martha was not anything like MikeK.

Martha was humble and did not doubt the prophecies of Sacred Scripture.

"Martha said to him, 'I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.' Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?' She said to him, 'Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world.'” - Jn 11:24-27

 

[mark46]

You have been told already via direct quotes of the Popes which have been posted in this forum.
There are also the prophets of the OT, the words of Jesus in the Gospels, and the book of Revelation.
Do you reject these as well?

I reject only your interpretations.

You use a translation where the pope uses the word "tribulation". You conclude that we are in the end times and the world can end at any time. There have been thousands of such analyses, associated with every part of history including the times of the apostles themselves.

Pope Benedict was the best theologian in a century. I'm sure that he would have told the people if he thought that we were in the end times. I believe the same about all of our pope since Vatican II.
======
Since the popes have not had this clear discussion (perhaps an encyclical on this important subject), you are left with your personal interpretation of Scripture, and perhaps the idea that the popes are keeping this very important information from the people.

You stand where so many have stood since biblical times. You have your personal interpretation of the Scriptures, And you accuse anyone who disagrees of ignoring Scripture.

 

[MikeK]

I reject only your interpretations.

You use a translation where the pope uses the word "tribulation". You conclude that we are in the end times and the world can end at any time. There have been thousands of such analyses, associated with every part of history including the times of the apostles themselves.

Pope Benedict was the best theologian in a century. I'm sure that he would have told the people if he thought that we were in the end times. I believe the same about all of our pope since Vatican II.
======
Since the popes have not had this clear discussion (perhaps an encyclical on this important subject), you are left with your personal interpretation of Scripture, and perhaps the idea that the popes are keeping this very important information from the people.

You stand where so many have stood since biblical times. You have your personal interpretation of the Scriptures, And you accuse anyone who disagrees of ignoring Scripture.

Maybe Pope Benedict wasn't as good a Biblical scholar as some of our members here are. I agree with you that if he sincerely believed that the end was very near, he would sound the alarm very clearly.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I reject only your interpretations.

You use a translation where the pope uses the word "tribulation". You conclude that we are in the end times and the world can end at any time. There have been thousands of such analyses, associated with every part of history including the times of the apostles themselves.

Pope Benedict was the best theologian in a century. I'm sure that he would have told the people if he thought that we were in the end times. I believe the same about all of our pope since Vatican II.
======
Since the popes have not had this clear discussion (perhaps an encyclical on this important subject), you are left with your personal interpretation of Scripture, and perhaps the idea that the popes are keeping this very important information from the people.

You stand where so many have stood since biblical times. You have your personal interpretation of the Scriptures, And you accuse anyone who disagrees of ignoring Scripture.

The OP did not include a single word of my commentary on eschatology. The belief that Elijah will return before the last day has always been a standard belief in Catholicism. But it was immediately rejected by MikeK. As far as my belief that we are getting close, Pope St. Pius X suggested that we are. So I'm in good company. As I have already shown by quotes from Popes and even from Vatican II, the Church does not hold to your view that the modern age is no different than the times before it. The Church views the modern age as being morally and spiritually dominated by evil. How else can someone interpret St. John Paul II calling western culture "a culture of death" and Pope Benedict XVI calling it a "dictatorship of relativism"?

 

[MikeK]

I didn't reject anything except the idea that more time should be spent in speculation about the end times than in discussion about how we can better love our Lord and serve our neighbor.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I didn't reject anything.

You belittled the prophecy by calling it "vague". There's nothing vague about the belief that Elijah will return before the last day.

 

[seekingsolace]

I didn't reject anything except the idea that more time should be spent in speculation about the end times than in discussion about how we can better love our Lord and serve our neighbor.

"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."

 

[MikeK]

You belittled the prophecy by calling it "vague" when there's nothing vague about the belief that Elijah will return before the last day.

I thought you said I rejected it? Now it's belittled? Okay then. If you believe that calling the prophesies in question vague, I am guilty as charged. They are vague. Were they not vague, people would not have misunderstood them for centuries.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I thought you said I rejected it? Now it's belittled? Okay then. If you believe that calling the prophesies in question vague, I am guilty as charged. They are vague. Were they not vague, people would not have misunderstood them for centuries.

Again, you are the one being vague. And you are using faulty logic. Just because some people don't understand something doesn't mean that it's vague. For example, I don't understand Math, but does that mean that Math is not understandable?

 

[MikeK]

Again, you are the one being vague. And you are using faulty logic. Just because some people don't understand something doesn't mean that it's vague. For example, I don't understand Math, but does that mean that Math is not understandable?

Of course not, I even suggested as much when I wondered aloud if maybe Pope Benedict just isn't a good enough Biblical scholar to understand these prophesies.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Of course not, I even suggested as much when I wondered aloud if maybe Pope Benedict just isn't a good enough Biblical scholar to understand these prophesies.

He's a better and more reliable biblical scholar than you or me. That's why I trust his opinion more than I trust yours. And that's why I point people to what the Popes, saints, and doctors of the Church have said instead of shooting off opinions out of thin air.

 

[seekingsolace]

Of course not, I even suggested as much when I wondered aloud if maybe Pope Benedict just isn't a good enough Biblical scholar to understand these prophesies.

Really?

 

[MikeK]

Really?

Really. Maybe there really is sufficient evidence to show that the apocalypse is nearly upon us and he just missed the signs and failed to warn us as directly and I wryly as he could. I don't think that's the case, I think that it is about as likely as unicorns being discovered on the Moon, but it is a possibility. Similarily, we have posters on this forum who believe with 99.9% certainty that they know who the antichrist is. Maybe they really do and Popes Benedict and Fancis either aren't as clever or just elected not to call him out. That's a possibility. Not a very strong one.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Really. Maybe there really is sufficient evidence to show that the apocalypse is nearly upon us and he just missed the signs and failed to warn us as directly and I wryly as he could.

There is nothing he could have said that would have convinced you of it.

 

[pdudgeon]

Of course not, I even suggested as much when I wondered aloud if maybe Pope Benedict just isn't a good enough Biblical scholar to understand these prophesies.

adding insult on top of injury.
do you really think that the Holy Spirit would choose someone in the last days who didn't understand prophecy?

 

[pdudgeon]

Really. Maybe there really is sufficient evidence to show that the apocalypse is nearly upon us and he just missed the signs and failed to warn us as directly and I wryly as he could. I don't think that's the case, I think that it is about as likely as unicorns being discovered on the Moon, but it is a possibility. Similarily, we have posters on this forum who believe with 99.9% certainty that they know who the antichrist is. Maybe they really do and Popes Benedict and Fancis either aren't as clever or just elected not to call him out. That's a possibility. Not a very strong one.

or maybe Popes Benedict and Francis have a church to run, and are trusting God to take care of the anti-Christ? ya think??

 

[MikeK]

There is nothing he could have said that would have convinced you of it.

That is a false statement.

 

[MikeK]

or maybe Popes Benedict and Francis have a church to run, and are trusting God to take care of the anti-Christ? ya think??

Yes, I think you're right. Both men busy themselves with service to Christ and probably don't see constant speculation as a good use of their limited time.

 

[MikeK]

O

adding insult on top of injury.
do you really think that the Holy Spirit would choose someone in the last days who didn't understand prophecy?

Nope, not at all. That's rather my point.