Enoch and Elijah

[benedictaoo]

...Yeeeessss... but what's that got to do with Communist Russia?

Sigh.. If you are familiar, then you already know. I'm not going to play games okay? If you don't know, then say so and then go look it up.

 

[MikeK]

She also was a contempletive. Very prayerful and her motto was "something beautiful for God" that's what our work is to accomplish, we are to transform ourselves into something beautiful for God. I don't know what exactly you're debating. Surely you haven't become a humanist? You must not fall into the devil's snare of the false dichotomy we either work for the temporal needs or we work for the spiritual. We must do both and the whole entire point of this whole discussion is to understand that if we only seek to care for the temporal needs and wants of our neighbor and neglect the spiritual by gaining them earthly comforts at the expense of apostatizing God, we are hastening, actually causing the end of the ages. This is why any kind of government that apostatizes faith can never be a choice in any nation. We can not have a secularized government making God forsaken laws just because "not everyone believes like us". That's the point, their unbelief is what will pave the way of the anti Christ.

This is a very strange reply. What makes you think I'm advocating for humanism or apostasy? We must work to help the less fortunate and we must serve our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Armoured]

Sigh.. If you are familiar, then you already know. I'm not going to play games okay? If you don't know, then say so and then go look it up.

I'm not playing games. I'm asking what the link between two things that seem utterly unrelated are. I welcome anyone asking clarification of me if they don't understand what I say, so I'm not sure what the problem is?

 

[benedictaoo]

If you can come up with a secular argument for it, me three.

Shakes head in disbelief... That's the whole point, secularism is turning from God. It all, all of it, socialism, secularism, it all springs from Communism, that's the error Russia spread. No, we can not continue to offend Godwith secularism, he's already offended too much. laws and culture need tombe based God's law and principals. No one is forced to be Christian, they can be what ever they want, freedom to practice what ever they want but our culture must be based on godly principles.

 

[MikeK]

What are you even talking about? You seem to be claiming secularized government around the world is of no consequence, that it all rides on the shoulders of the individual??? Did you read Benedict's Lenten reflection of 2013 that I posted? Are you disagreeing with him? That for the individual secularized government makes living a God centered holy life difficult indeed? That Christ only in the private sector is not enough? Giving him lip service is not enough. In this God forsaken society, people, even those raised Christian find it impossible to not be influenced by these God forsaken laws. I think you may have been influenced if you're debating this. You're kidding me right? Hollywood is brainwashing, even cartoons are a bad influence. ABC's "family" programing geared towards preteen and young teens indoctrinating them, normalizing same sex relationships, one show was dad becoming mom. It's ridiculous. Public schools are normalizing this garbage as well. Rot in, rot out, you know this. How extremely difficult indeed is it to raise children in this secularism. So, yeah Christian marriage is difficult to be faithful even. Too many temptations given to us, too many God forsaken laws designed by the enemy to attack the individual. I have no idea what you are disagreeing with. It's simple really, we need to stop offending God in the public sector, He is already much to much offended.

What are you arguing with? This is your response to my statement that we need to show the world how beautiful traditional Christian marriage is. What we have is far better, both spiritually and in the short term Earthly sense than what fornicators and adulterers and people in same-sex marriages have. Let us display the deep happiness and satisfaction that comes from serving the Lord and others will be drawn to explore what we have. I am not disagreeing with Pope Benedict's reflections at all and I'm not sure what specific bits you imagine I take issue with.

 

[Armoured]

Shakes head in disbelief... That's the whole point, secularism is turning from God. It all, all of it, socialism, secularism, it all springs from Communism, that's the error Russia spread. No, we can not continue to offend Godwith secularism, he's already offended too much. laws and culture need tombe based God's law and principals. No one is forced to be Christian, they can be what ever they want, freedom to practice what ever they want but our culture must be based on godly principles.

"It all springs from communism"? Establishment clause?

How can you say "people must be free to practice whatever they want" and then "culture must be based on godly principles " straight after? They're inherently contradictory.

E.g. if someone is free to be gay,they're not godly, but if they're not allowed to be gay, they're not free, are they?

 

[MikeK]

Shakes head in disbelief... That's the whole point, secularism is turning from God. It all, all of it, socialism, secularism, it all springs from Communism, that's the error Russia spread. No, we can not continue to offend Godwith secularism, he's already offended too much. laws and culture need tombe based God's law and principals. No one is forced to be Christian, they can be what ever they want, freedom to practice what ever they want but our culture must be based on godly principles.

I agree that secularism is a problem (but it has its roots in something far older than communism). There is much work to do, and our Bishops' Conference has steadfastly advocated for laws that will please Christ. These issues all deserve our support and we are blessed not to have to pick and choose between them.

 

[benedictaoo]

This is a very strange reply. What makes you think I'm advocating for humanism or apostasy? We must work to help the less fortunate and we must serve our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Mike, we all here are gleening the same thing from reading your replays. I'm sorry but it seems to be what is written between the lines because your debating everything. What exactly are you disagreeing with? If I'm mistaken, help me understand.

 

[MikeK]

There are two sides in this thread. One side says, "Here's what Jesus and the Church says."

And the other side responds, "Here's what I say."

Absolutely. I have time and time again mentioned what Jesus said about the primary two commands we are to live by. Thanks for noticing.

 

[benedictaoo]

Armchair persecution, like I said.

You don't get to define it. You can however, think, feel, and believe what ever you want. You will anyway.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Christian: "Here's what Jesus and the Church say about it..."
Secular humanist: "But here's what I say about it..."

 

[MikeK]

Mike, we all here are gleening the same thing from reading your replays. I'm sorry but it seems to be what is written between the lines because your debating everything. What exactly are you disagreeing with? If I'm mistaken, help me understand.

You are mistaken. There is nothing that I have said that suggests that I support apostasy or secularism in spite of your recent accusations. I have consistently repeated the call for us to do more for Christ and to demonstrate just how wonderful the gift we've been given is. I don't know how you misinterpret that, and I don't understand what all the angst and smh-ing is over.

 

[pdudgeon]

...Yeeeessss... but what's that got to do with Communist Russia?

if you don't know what Fatima has to do with Communist Russia, then you need to do more study of the messages that were given to the children.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Here's what Jesus and the Church say:

"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." - Jesus (Jn 15:19)

"The foe and enemy of the Church despises and passes by those whom he has alienated from the Church, and led without as captives and conquered; he goes on to harass those in whom he sees Christ dwell." - St. Cyprian, Epistle 56

 

[pdudgeon]

"It all springs from communism"? Establishment clause?

How can you say "people must be free to practice whatever they want" and then "culture must be based on godly principles " straight after? They're inherently contradictory.

E.g. if someone is free to be gay,they're not godly, but if they're not allowed to be gay, they're not free, are they?

i think you've got that last mixed up.
a person is free to choose to be gay, but in doing so they are opposing the freedom and goodness of what God wants for them,
and choosing instead to be chained in slavery to a practice and an identity that God hates, and one which will only end in depravity and death.

that's why culture must be based on Godly principles. To base it on anything else is destructive.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

“Truly, truly, I say to you, every one who commits sin is a slave to sin.”- Jesus (Jn 8:34)

 

[pdudgeon]

Absolutely. I have time and time again mentioned what Jesus said about the primary two commands we are to live by. Thanks for noticing.

yes....and it's the how and why that those two commands are carried out that we differ on.

once again, it's the same difference between Mary and her sister Martha.
Both made good choices, but it was the difference in their motivation that distinguished between them,
and caused Jesus to say that Mary had chosen the better part.

once again, both are good choices but it's the motivation that makes all the difference.
we can do good works by ourselves, or we can do good works with Jesus.
want to know the difference? John 6:1-13.

 

[Michie]

Whatever happened to Enoch and Elijah? These threads always turn into the same debate.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Whatever happened to Enoch and Elijah? These threads always turn into the same debate.

Here's an explanation of what happened:

“At the heart of all temptations…is the act of pushing God aside because we perceive him as secondary, if not actually superfluous and annoying, in comparison with all the apparently far more urgent matters that fill our lives. Constructing a world by our own lights, without reference to God, building on our own foundation; refusing to acknowledge the reality of anything beyond the political and material, while setting God aside as an illusion—that is the temptation that threatens us in many varied forms.

“Moral posturing is part and parcel of temptation. It does not invite us directly to do evil—no, that would be far too blatant. It pretends to show us a better way, where we finally abandon our illusions and throw ourselves into the work of actually making the world a better place. It claims, moreover, to speak for true realism: What’s real is what is right there in front of us—power and bread. By comparison, the things of God fade into unreality, into a secondary world that no one really needs....When God is regarded as a secondary matter that can be set aside temporarily or permanently on account of more important things, it is precisely these supposedly more important things that come to nothing.”

— Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), Jesus of Nazareth - Vol I (pp. 28-29; 33)

 

[benedictaoo]

I agree. Here's what the Church says about it (added emphasis):

"Among the alarming developments of these years has been the widespread increase of pornography and wanton violence in the media. Books and magazines, recordings, the cinema, the theatre, television, videocassettes, advertising displays and even telecommunications frequently offer a representation of violent behaviour or of permissiveness in sexual activity that reaches the point of being openly pornographic and morally offensive. As reflections of the dark side of a human nature marred by sin, pornography and the exaltation of violence are age-old realities of the human condition. In the past quarter century, however, they have taken on new dimensions and have become serious social problems. At a time of widespread and unfortunate confusion about moral norms, the communications media have made pornography and violence accessible to a vastly expanded audience, including young people and even children, and a problem which at one time was confined mainly to wealthy countries has now begun, via the communications media, to corrupt moral values in developing nations." - Pontifical Council for Social Communications (1989)
​

We should care about helping the needy. But caring for our neighbor means, above all, caring about their soul. The temptation of the devil is for man to live on bread alone. And that is exactly what secular humanism is about.
.

Yep... And that was in 1989. How far have we come and not in a good way. Easy way to know the sheep from the goats. One would say, shouting with glee, yes, how far (away from God) we have come! And the other, somber with tears, beating their breast, how far (away from God) we have come! One will think it a blessing, the other a curse. Reminds me of Moses. Not hard to know the sheep from the goats. The elect from the reprobate. Esau and Jacob.