end of the world dreams

[blessedmomof5]

I keep having dreams about the end of time and christs return, but i am left behind to deal with the consqenses. they are never the same dream but always along those lines? are they visons or just dreams

 

[Bobinator]

I believe they're just dreams. No one will be left behind. We will all be present on earth and go through tribulations.

 

[Peterthepebble]

I agree, I believe that true Believers of Jesus Christ will go through tribulations and a period of the Great Tribulation. I say this because it says in matthew 24:12-13 "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

 

[Wade Smith]

Just a nightmare.

The pretrib rapture theory is just a false eschatology.

I Have been a christian literally all of my life, and until about 3 years ago, I also believed in the pre-trib rapture.

But if you study the Bible very closely, you will discover that there is no such thing.

The last trump of 1 corinthians 15 cannot come before the 7th trump of revelation.

In matthew 24, the "Abomination of Desolation" is set up in verse 15, and this passage is sequencial based on words such as "then", "after" "next", etc. You can also see this in Mark 13: 14-27. Once again, no saints are leaving in a secret rapture. The Angels and Jesus are coming back for everyone at the end of the tribulation.

Well, the "elect" are not gathered together until verse 31 of Matthew, with the sound of a trumpet. Since Paul says that the dead in Christ rise first, at the "Last Trump" in Corinthians, then we know that the Trump Jesus speaks of must also be the last trump. Once again, the "last trump" cannot happen before the "seventh trump".


There is only one resurrection. In Revelation, it is called the "First Resurrection", and happens at the very end of the tribulation, after the Beast and false prophet are already done away with, and not the beginning.

 

[Laffy4Christ]

yeah those are dreams I have those some times my self I have had 2 of those kinds of dreams so far and I was left behind or almost left behind by myself lol scary but Just remember that all dreams come from God to give us warnings it say so in Job 33:15-18

 

[blessedmomof5]

yeah those are dreams I have those some times my self I have had 2 of those kinds of dreams so far and I was left behind or almost left behind by myself lol scary but Just remember that all dreams come from God to give us warnings it say so in Job 33:15-18

hmmm, now you have me thinking

thanks everyone for your replies

 

[Bobinator]

"All dreams coming from God" is a very untrue statement. Job 33:15-16 does not say all dreams are from God. It simply implies that God speaks to people in dreams.

Job 33:15-16- In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;[16] Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,..."

The devil can give people dreams too, and so can pizza .

 

[heron]

What a nice passage though...similar to how God gave John the Revelation that people still use to plan for more dangerous days ahead. Here's the passage with links to definitions of the Hebrew words.

In a dream, a vision of the night, When sound sleep falls on men, While they slumber in their beds, Then He opens the ears of men, And seals their instruction, That He may turnman aside from his conduct, And keep man from pride; He keeps back his soul from the pit, And his life from passing over into Sheol.​

 

[blessedmomof5]

Quite honestly now i am thinking it is a message from God. i have not been reading the bible as much as i could and or going to church as often either, my excuses are its summer and we go to the beach we'll go back when school starts. so i do believe He is trying to tell me something

 

[heron]

Well then, use whatever falls into your lap, whether it was from Him or not. Ultimately He doesn't want you to perish, so He could be making sure you don't!

(You should invite Him to the beach.)


Just make sure that you recognize harassment as a tactic of the enemy... guilting you into thinking God hates you or will leave you behind. God tells us things directly, often in subtle hints or more blatant messages... the enemy gnaws away at us and drags us down.

 

[blessedmomof5]

thank you for the reminder

Well then, use whatever falls into your lap, whether it was from Him or not. Ultimately He doesn't want you to perish, so He could be making sure you don't!

(You should invite Him to the beach.)


Just make sure that you recognize harassment as a tactic of the enemy... guilting you into thinking God hates you or will leave you behind. God tells us things directly, often in subtle hints or more blatant messages... the enemy gnaws away at us and drags us down.

 

[george]

I believe they're just dreams. No one will be left behind. We will all be present on earth and go through tribulations.

Hey Bob...I wanted you to check out this link and tell me what you think in accordance to what you said about believers going through tribulations. this is not meant as a disagreement to your response. just wanted some clarification concerning your response. cause I always believed in a pre-rapture. http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-Rapture-Second-Coming.html

 

[george]

I keep having dreams about the end of time and christs return, but i am left behind to deal with the consqenses. they are never the same dream but always along those lines? are they visons or just dreams

blessedmomo...I know how you feel. when I was young in my christian faith. I too dreamed of the rapture. in the dream I remeber being in bed and hearing a loud bang. for some reason. I sense it was the rapture. and immmedely got out of bed and ran to the kitchen and looked out the window. I didn't really see anyone going up. and wonder to myself. if this is the rapture? why am I not going up? it can be a scary.but I knew something was wrong. cause I knew I was a believer.

 

[EternalMoment]

Are you saved? ask yourself this, and study upon it.

 

[blessedmomof5]

Are you saved? ask yourself this, and study upon it.

i always thought i was, oh i am so confused,now.why do i have to be having these dreams

 

[Bobinator]

Hey Bob...I wanted you to check out this link and tell me what you think in accordance to what you said about believers going through tribulations. this is not meant as a disagreement to your response. just wanted some clarification concerning your response. cause I always believed in a pre-rapture. http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-Rapture-Second-Coming.html

George-

The writer is basically attempting to bend scripture to fit his belief in the rapture, rather than reading the scriptures at face value before coming to a conclusion. Below are the main points as he writes in his article. My responses are in red:


(1) At the Rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the Second Coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

There will be a rapture of sorts, but the biggest question is when? 1Thess. 4:17 does not say when it will happen. It simply states that something WILL happen Therefore, we must rely on other scripture that provide a direct statement for this answer. We know that the saints who are raptured will meet the Lord at his coming. The Lord returns in Revelations 19, which is distinctly AFTER tribulations. Further, Verse 17 says, “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

The “we which are alive and remain” strongly implies there will be others that perish. We also find evidence of this in Revelations 6:10-11 where the martyrs of God are crying out for vengeance, saying- “[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?[11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Second, these saints shall meet the Lord in the air. The saints meet the Lord while He’s on his way to the earth. As simple as that.

Third, these saints will be caught up in the clouds. Jesus left this way and said he would return likewise in the Book of Acts. So, it makes sense that the saints will meet him this way.

1Corin.15 says the following- “[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.[24] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.[25] For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

In other words, Christ will not return until his church puts the enemy under his feet. We are the body of Christ. Christ is the head and is in heaven. It is our job to persevere and defeat the enemy on earth. The last enemy we defeat is death. Defeating death means staying alive until Christ returns.

(2) The Second Coming occurs after the great and terrible Tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The Rapture occurs before the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

The first point is true. The 2nd coming is after tribulations.

The second point is not true and has no scripture to support this statement. The authors uses 1 Thess.5:9 which says- “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”

The author is taking this scripture out of context. If you read verse 10, it says- [10] Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.”

The wrath Paul is referring to is the punishment of Hell, because he mentions us not being subject to wrath whether we be alive or dead. How can the wrath be referring to experiencing death if Paul is also addressing those who die? Secondly, try explaining the author’s use of this verse to the millions of Christians who were slaughtered even to this day.

The author also references Revelations 3:10 which says, “[10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The Author is also using this scripture out of context. Tribulations will not last 1 hour. It will last 7 years. Some say 3 and 1/2 years. The hour of temptation most likely being referred to is that time in which people will have to make a choice between accepting the mark of the beast or getting their head cut off. It could very well mean giving the saints enough strength to say “no” and accept the inevitable. This was also true during the Spanish Inquisition or persecution from the Roman Empire. There are many testimonies of Christians enduring horrific deaths instead of denying Christ. Revelations 3:10 could also be directly referring to the woman in the wilderness, or the man-child who are protected by God during tribulations. Let's hope we're all in either one of these groups.

If the author’s use of this scripture is correct, then he’s also implying that only members of the Church of Sardis will be raptured. That leaves out everyone else.

(3) The Rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1Thessalonians 4:13-17; 5:9). The Second Coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

This is truth mixed with untruth. It is an act of deliverance only for “those which are alive and remain”. Just before the end, the Lord pulls out his people before bringing utter destruction and judgment on the earth by his coming with his armies, but not before the 7 trumps that bring great tribulation, or the vials of God’s wrath that are poured upon the earth, or the persecution and slaughter of Christians as spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, Matthew 24, Ezekiel 8 and 9, and Revelations 6 and 12:17.

Furthermore, Matthew 24:22 says, And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

The elect are those who made it through to the end. Why would God rapture ordinary Christians, but leave the elect to suffer all the way to the end? The elect are the cream of the crop.

Also, Wade also pointed out Matthew 24:13- "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." This scripture directly challenges the rapture theory.

(4) The Rapture will be “secret” and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The Second Coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

There is no scripture that says 1Corin. 15:50-54 will be a secret. It’ll happen suddenly, yes. But the return of Jesus will be evident for all to see. There are scriptures that say the ungodly will run for fear and dread when the Lord returns. The return of Christ and the saints meeting him in the air happen simultaneously, or one right after the other. The people that do meet him in the air may also be part of the armies that Christ returns with to bring destruction upon the earth. After all, they fought the devil and death to survive the tribulations. I will also add that understanding spiritual warfare and being very skilled at it will be a requirement for survival in these last days.

1Corin. 15:51-54 says this- “[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The key word here is “the last trump.” If the Lord returns at the last trump, then it must be AFTER the 7 trumps the angels sound to bring great tribulation on the earth. The remaining parts of these scriptures apply to all those who, again, “are alive and remain.” There will be people that make it to the end, but it’s going to be a whole lot less than you think. Those who make it to the end will be changed to be like Jesus. They will defeat death and live body and soul.

Case in point- Jesus said to his disciples that not all of them would die. All of Jesus’ disciples died horrible deaths, except John. There is no record of John’s death. Most born-again scholars believe John was taken to heaven as Elijah was- body and soul. 1 out of 12 is not a good ratio for the church if you want to make this comparison.

According to Revelations 12, the only Christians that will make it to the end are the people that comprise of the woman that flees into the wilderness, or the man-child that she births and is caught up to the throne of God. Everyone else dies. The woman is the bride of Christ, which is God’s perfect church that is formed during tribulations. The 12 stars above her head represent the 12 spiritual tribes of Israel. Under her feet is the moon, which represents the demonic kingdom. God’s perfect church knows how to defeat the enemy. Out of this church is birthed an elite group called the man-child that reaches full spiritual maturity and attain sGod’s highest calling. This man-child is the army spoken of in Joel Chapter 2. Note that in Revelations 19, Jesus returns with his armies (plural). I believe that at least 1 army is the man-child that was redeemed from the earth, and the other is the army of angels from heaven.

(5) The Second Coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The Rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

My comments above should have addressed this one already, and Titus 2 doesn’t provide any information to address the timing of the Lord's return.

Thanks for sharing this article and allowing me an opportunity to comment.

 

[george]

George-

The writer is basically attempting to bend scripture to fit his belief in the rapture, rather than reading the scriptures at face value before coming to a conclusion. Below are the main points as he writes in his article. My responses are in red:


(1) At the Rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the Second Coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

There will be a rapture of sorts, but the biggest question is when? 1Thess. 4:17 does not say when it will happen. It simply states that something WILL happen Therefore, we must rely on other scripture that provide a direct statement for this answer. We know that the saints who are raptured will meet the Lord at his coming. The Lord returns in Revelations 19, which is distinctly AFTER tribulations. Further, Verse 17 says, “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

The “we which are alive and remain” strongly implies there will be others that perish. We also find evidence of this in Revelations 6:10-11 where the martyrs of God are crying out for vengeance, saying- “[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?[11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Second, these saints shall meet the Lord in the air. The saints meet the Lord while He’s on his way to the earth. As simple as that.

Third, these saints will be caught up in the clouds. Jesus left this way and said he would return likewise in the Book of Acts. So, it makes sense that the saints will meet him this way.

1Corin.15 says the following- “[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.[24] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.[25] For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

In other words, Christ will not return until his church puts the enemy under his feet. We are the body of Christ. Christ is the head and is in heaven. It is our job to persevere and defeat the enemy on earth. The last enemy we defeat is death. Defeating death means staying alive until Christ returns.

(2) The Second Coming occurs after the great and terrible Tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The Rapture occurs before the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

The first point is true. The 2nd coming is after tribulations.

The second point is not true and has no scripture to support this statement. The authors uses 1 Thess.5:9 which says- “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”

The author is taking this scripture out of context. If you read verse 10, it says- [10] Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.”

The wrath Paul is referring to is the punishment of Hell, because he mentions us not being subject to wrath whether we be alive or dead. How can the wrath be referring to experiencing death if Paul is also addressing those who die? Secondly, try explaining the author’s use of this verse to the millions of Christians who were slaughtered even to this day.

The author also references Revelations 3:10 which says, “[10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The Author is also using this scripture out of context. Tribulations will not last 1 hour. It will last 7 years. Some say 3 and 1/2 years. The hour of temptation most likely being referred to is that time in which people will have to make a choice between accepting the mark of the beast or getting their head cut off. It could very well mean giving the saints enough strength to say “no” and accept the inevitable. This was also true during the Spanish Inquisition or persecution from the Roman Empire. There are many testimonies of Christians enduring horrific deaths instead of denying Christ. Revelations 3:10 could also be directly referring to the woman in the wilderness, or the man-child who are protected by God during tribulations. Let's hope we're all in either one of these groups.

If the author’s use of this scripture is correct, then he’s also implying that only members of the Church of Sardis will be raptured. That leaves out everyone else.

(3) The Rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1Thessalonians 4:13-17; 5:9). The Second Coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

This is truth mixed with untruth. It is an act of deliverance only for “those which are alive and remain”. Just before the end, the Lord pulls out his people before bringing utter destruction and judgment on the earth by his coming with his armies, but not before the 7 trumps that bring great tribulation, or the vials of God’s wrath that are poured upon the earth, or the persecution and slaughter of Christians as spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, Matthew 24, Ezekiel 8 and 9, and Revelations 6 and 12:17.

Furthermore, Matthew 24:22 says, And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

The elect are those who made it through to the end. Why would God rapture ordinary Christians, but leave the elect to suffer all the way to the end? The elect are the cream of the crop.

Also, Wade also pointed out Matthew 24:13- "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." This scripture directly challenges the rapture theory.

(4) The Rapture will be “secret” and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The Second Coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

There is no scripture that says 1Corin. 15:50-54 will be a secret. It’ll happen suddenly, yes. But the return of Jesus will be evident for all to see. There are scriptures that say the ungodly will run for fear and dread when the Lord returns. The return of Christ and the saints meeting him in the air happen simultaneously, or one right after the other. The people that do meet him in the air may also be part of the armies that Christ returns with to bring destruction upon the earth. After all, they fought the devil and death to survive the tribulations. I will also add that understanding spiritual warfare and being very skilled at it will be a requirement for survival in these last days.

1Corin. 15:51-54 says this- “[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The key word here is “the last trump.” If the Lord returns at the last trump, then it must be AFTER the 7 trumps the angels sound to bring great tribulation on the earth. The remaining parts of these scriptures apply to all those who, again, “are alive and remain.” There will be people that make it to the end, but it’s going to be a whole lot less than you think. Those who make it to the end will be changed to be like Jesus. They will defeat death and live body and soul.

Case in point- Jesus said to his disciples that not all of them would die. All of Jesus’ disciples died horrible deaths, except John. There is no record of John’s death. Most born-again scholars believe John was taken to heaven as Elijah was- body and soul. 1 out of 12 is not a good ratio for the church if you want to make this comparison.

According to Revelations 12, the only Christians that will make it to the end are the people that comprise of the woman that flees into the wilderness, or the man-child that she births and is caught up to the throne of God. Everyone else dies. The woman is the bride of Christ, which is God’s perfect church that is formed during tribulations. The 12 stars above her head represent the 12 spiritual tribes of Israel. Under her feet is the moon, which represents the demonic kingdom. God’s perfect church knows how to defeat the enemy. Out of this church is birthed an elite group called the man-child that reaches full spiritual maturity and attain sGod’s highest calling. This man-child is the army spoken of in Joel Chapter 2. Note that in Revelations 19, Jesus returns with his armies (plural). I believe that at least 1 army is the man-child that was redeemed from the earth, and the other is the army of angels from heaven.

(5) The Second Coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The Rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

My comments above should have addressed this one already, and Titus 2 doesn’t provide any information to address the timing of the Lord's return.

Thanks for sharing this article and allowing me an opportunity to comment.

Bob...thanks so much for your gracious comments. I'm still trying to learn all this. all I really know for sure and what really matters is that Jesus is coming soon and his people will live with him forever.

 

[Cfuller2k8]

New comer and first post ... or reply . I have had several dreams or visions involving the end times . Some I was left , and some i was called to god . It appears to be a common place thing among aspiring followers of the true faith .