End islamic female mutilation

[Gene2memE]

Can someone link gradyll the data from my post here:
End islamic female mutilation

He seems to have blocked me (or is ignoring me). However, I'm faintly hopeful that if enough people hit him with the data enough times, it might transfer into his mind via some kind of concussive effect.

 

[createdtoworship]

Look guys we have conflicting Wikipedia reports. The one in the OP suggests that Christians who do practice are being recommended not to by clergy, we all know how culture affects religion negatively. But the clerics in Islam are not recommending them to stop. This is why the link in op says it's mainly a Muslim thing. Now other reports have come.out on Wikipedia suggesting the percentage of religion in each state, but logically how can they know that? Did they go out and interview each and every tribe on horseback, for years. Then by the time it's done, it changed all over again. I suggest to toss out the state studies and.country studies due to this flaw of accuracy.

 

[Gene2memE]

Look guys we have conflicting Wikipedia reports. The one in the OP suggests that Christians who do practice are being recommended not to by clergy, we all know how culture affects religion negatively. But the clerics in Islam are not recommending them to stop. This is why the link in op says it's mainly a Muslim thing. Now other reports have come.out on Wikipedia suggesting the percentage of religion in each state, but logically how can they know that? Did they go out and interview each and every tribe on horseback, for years. Then by the time it's done, it changed all over again. I suggest to toss out the state studies and.country studies due to this flaw of accuracy.

Right...

So, the data disagrees with your presupposed conclusion. Therefore, we should ignore then data.

Logical debater indeed...

 

[createdtoworship]

Right...

So, the data disagrees with your presupposed conclusion. Therefore, we should ignore then data.

Logical debater indeed...

if you knew more in depth how the study was conducted then perhaps we could accept it as valid.

 

[Gene2memE]

if you knew more in depth how the study was conducted then perhaps we could accept it as valid.

Sure.

The 2013 UNICEF data study is based on nationally representative surveys from all 29 countries where FGM/C is concentrated, including 17 new surveys undertaken in the last three years. It also includes data from more than 70 other nationally representative surveys conducted over a 20-year period.

The the 2013 UNICEF data study builds on a number of reports that UNICEF has conducted on FGM/C since 2005.

The nationally representative data on FGM/C are mainly available from two sources: Demographic and Health Surveys (DHS) and Multiple Indicator Cluster Surveys (MICS).

Since 1984, DHS have been carried out about once every five years with technical support from ICF International (formerly Macro International) and funding from USAID. The surveys cover a range of
demographic and health issues in Africa, Asia and Latin America, among other regions, providing relatively comparable data on fertility, family planning, child health, morbidity, mortality and HIV/AIDS.
A module on FGM/C was developed for the first time for the 1989-1990 survey in the northern part of what was then known as Sudan. After a few years, the module was modified and has been included in DHS for 23 countries to date.

Since 1995, MICS have been conducted approximately every five years, resulting in more than 200 surveys in about 130 countries. The first module on FGM/C was included in the 2000 MICS in the Central African Republic, Chad and Sudan. The last two rounds of MICS (mainly conducted in 2005-2006 and again in 2009-2011) generated updated FGM/C data from 16 countries, including seven with no prior data (Djibouti, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Iraq, Sierra Leone, Somalia and Togo).

Still question the validity?

 

[createdtoworship]

Right...

So, the data disagrees with your presupposed conclusion. Therefore, we should ignore then data.

Logical debater indeed...

this is why you were blocked, ad hominem flames.

 

[createdtoworship]

again UCICEF is untrustworthy, there is no way to look down everyone's pants and tell if they were genitally mutilated. IF so, that would be rape. But you would have to actually eye witness it to be sure. Word of mouth is only hearsay. So, untrustworthy.

 

[Gene2memE]

Got information that is MORE trustworthy and reliable than UNICEF data then? I'd love to see it.

 

[Gene2memE]

More information on Christian practices of FGM/C:

From the African Journal of Urology:

Yet, as has already been mentioned before, FGM is practiced among Christian groups, e.g. in Egypt, Nigeria, Tanzania and Kenya. Although FGM is not prescribed by religious law, many of those practicing it may consider it a religious obligation, as female sexual purity plays an important role, not only in Christianity, but in all monotheistic religions.

As described above, FGM cannot be justified by any of the three monotheistic religions. The reasons for FGM are various and are clearly a mixture of cultural, social and religious factors. In societies, where FGM is practiced, the social pressure on the families is very high and the necessity to conform to what is considered right may be reason enough to continue the practice. But whatever reason there may be, the fact is that FGM represents a violation of human rights which has to be fought until it has been totally eliminated.

 

[football5680]

Try again sir, you refute nothing. That I can tell anyway. Cheers!

Could you provide a single verse in the Quran or statement from Muhammad that would support this. If you can't then you have been thoroughly refuted.

 

[Dave-W]

Look. The accuracy of the surveys is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that this practice is still in existence in several different parts of the world - AND NEEDS TO STOP. NOW.

On that point I think we can all agree.

 

[createdtoworship]

Could you provide a single verse in the Quran or statement from Muhammad that would support this. If you can't then you have been thoroughly refuted.

Remind me later, I can quote many violent passages is Quran to kill those who are christian or homosexual. As far as circumcision, neither male nor female circumcision is found in quran, yet msle circumcision Is a very important part of Islamic tradition. This report mentions specifically a rebuttal of FGM in Islamic culture. Why refute something that does not exist, note the PhD of the author. ISLAM AND FEMALE CIRCUMCISION - Minaret of Freedom Institute. It didn't post but you can find the title.

 

[football5680]

Remind me later, I can quote many violent passages is Quran to kill those who are christian or homosexual. As far as circumcision, neither male nor female circumcision is found in quran, yet msle circumcision Is a very important part of Islamic tradition. This report mentions specifically a rebuttal of FGM in Islamic culture. Why refute something that does not exist, note the PhD of the author. ISLAM AND FEMALE CIRCUMCISION - Minaret of Freedom Institute. It didn't post but you can find the title.

This is getting tiring. I already said I could provide you with the hundreds of violent verses in the Quran that support all sorts of evil. We are not even debating this fact. We are speaking about this single issue which you have not provided any real evidence for because it does not exist. The only way to make an argument about the real evils of Islam is to remain consistent which you are not being. I can provide evidence for male circumcision in Islam because it is something which Muhammad supported, but the same cannot be said when it comes to females. If you continue to push this false narrative, nobody is going to believe you when you actually speak about the true evils which are found in Islam, just like the boy who cried wolf.

If this was even debatable, then I wouldn't have commented in the first place but it is so easy for a Muslim to refute, by doing exactly what I have done to you. I ask for simple proof from the Quran or a statement of Muhammad and you have been unable to do this (Because it doesn't exist).

 

[createdtoworship]

This is getting tiring. I already said I could provide you with the hundreds of violent verses in the Quran that support all sorts of evil. We are not even debating this fact. We are speaking about this single issue which you have not provided any real evidence for because it does not exist. The only way to make an argument about the real evils of Islam is to remain consistent which you are not being. I can provide evidence for male circumcision in Islam because it is something which Muhammad supported, but the same cannot be said when it comes to females. If you continue to push this false narrative, nobody is going to believe you when you actually speak about the true evils which are found in Islam, just like the boy who cried wolf.

If this was even debatable, then I wouldn't have commented in the first place but it is so easy for a Muslim to refute, by doing exactly what I have done to you. I ask for simple proof from the Quran or a statement of Muhammad and you have been unable to do this (Because it doesn't exist).

but how do you know the trusted words of muhammed, if not found in the quran. If not in the quran, then why not? I mean are they too evil to be in the quran? My whole point is that neither male nor female circumcision is found in the quran. So your point is meaningless since we cannot grade the words of muhammed by any standard of canonicity.

 

[football5680]

but how do you know the trusted words of muhammed, if not found in the quran. If not in the quran, then why not? I mean are they too evil to be in the quran? My whole point is that neither male nor female circumcision is found in the quran. So your point is meaningless since we cannot grade the words of muhammed by any standard of canonicity.

The Quran is not viewed by Muslims as the words of Muhammad, it is the words of God alone and Muhammad was simply the messenger. Muhammad's words can be found in the Hadith collections which record his words and deeds. The word Sunni, comes from the word Sunnah which is a reference to these books. The Kutub al-Sittah, meaning 6 books are the most trusted sources which Sunni Muslims use. A lot of stuff is not found in the Quran, but the Quran also says that Muslims must obey and emulate Muhammad and these books are necessary to obey this Quranic command. So my point is meaningful because I understand how Islamic theology works. The difference between Sunni and Shia Muslims is what books they use because the Shia do not trust some of the people who the Sunni's do.

 

[createdtoworship]

The Quran is not viewed by Muslims as the words of Muhammad, it is the words of God alone and Muhammad was simply the messenger. Muhammad's words can be found in the Hadith collections which record his words and deeds. The word Sunni, comes from the word Sunnah which is a reference to these books. The Kutub al-Sittah, meaning 6 books are the most trusted sources which Sunni Muslims use. A lot of stuff is not found in the Quran, but the Quran also says that Muslims must obey and emulate Muhammad and these books are necessary to obey this Quranic command. So my point is meaningful because I understand how Islamic theology works. The difference between Sunni and Shia Muslims is what books they use because the Shia do not trust some of the people who the Sunni's do.

So have you searched the hadith for female circumsision?

 

[football5680]

So have you searched the hadith for female circumsision?

Yes. Male circumcision is found within them but not female circumcision. The practice would have been extremely uncommon in Arabia so it was neither prescribed or prohibited. The fact that is was not prohibited is what allowed it to develop within the Muslim community and over the centuries, some clerics supported it and others forbid it.

 

[createdtoworship]

Yes. Male circumcision is found within them but not female circumcision. The practice would have been extremely uncommon in Arabia so it was neither prescribed or prohibited. The fact that is was not prohibited is what allowed it to develop within the Muslim community and over the centuries, some clerics supported it and others forbid it.

do you have a digital copy where you can search it for female circumcision or are you trusting your own opinion, or others opinions.

 

[football5680]

do you have a digital copy where you can search it for female circumcision or are you trusting your own opinion, or others opinions.

There are digital copies online that are searchable. I found only 1 reference to female circumcision but the chain of narration is broken and does not go back to Muhammad. Most of the Hadith were compiled in the 9th century and the way they judged the authenticity was by the chain of narration. If the chain of narration did not reach back to Muhammad through people who were considered trustworthy, it would still be recorded but would be classified as weak, meaning Islamic law should not be based upon it. The one reference I found had both a broken chain of narration and an obscure person who not much was known about.

 

[createdtoworship]

What is the quote from it, I am curious.