Ellen White on the Sabbath

[bugkiller]

You and all others condemn yourselves with your own words. You tell me "no law" and then tell me no stealing. Get it right. What is meant, if I may venture to do so, is that there is law but we don't want #4.

Is stealing only evil (sin) because of the law? or is now chargable as evil (sin) under the law?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I'm not sure my poor brain can follow this--are you saying that Jesus Christ, when He made the sabbath and sanctified and hallowed it--He sanctified it for Himself, because when Jesus Christ on earth said that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath He again meant Himself?? The greek says "the" man, not just man?--I don't have a Greek bible. So, assuming that you are correct and it says "The" it can only mean that it was made exclusively for Jesus only??----Why?---Jesus is both man and God when He was born. He had both natures. So the sabbath was made for his human nature, and His divine nature? Or it was made just for His human nature?--So Christ, when He made the sabbath, knowing He would one day be human and divine set aside a day of rest for His human side? But then, if that is true, He still set it aside for all men as He was setting a day of rest that He knew man would be needing--even Himself, for His human nature left Him weak, tired, sleepy, hungry, and in need of rest from from the everyday struggles and needed to have a day to spend with The Father as all men need.
Interesting idea.

I do not have one either so I use an interlinear. This is a c&p form biblos.com

2532 [e]
27 kai
27 καὶ
27 And
27 Conj3004 [e]
elegen
ἔλεγεν
he said
V-IIA-3S846 [e]
autois
αὐτοῖς ,
to them
PPro-DM3P3588 [e]
To
Τὸ
The
Art-NNS4521 [e]
sabbaton
σάββατον
Sabbath
N-NNS1223 [e]
dia
διὰ
on account of
Prep3588 [e]
ton
τὸν
the
Art-AMS444 [e]
anthrōpon
ἄνθρωπον
man
N-AMS1096 [e]
egeneto
ἐγένετο ,
was made
V-AIM-3S2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj3756 [e]
ouch
οὐχ
not
Adv3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
the
Art-NMS444 [e]
anthrōpos
ἄνθρωπος
man
N-NMS1223 [e]
dia
διὰ
on account of
Prep3588 [e]
to
τὸ
the
Art-ANS4521 [e]
sabbaton
σάββατον .
Sabbath
N-ANS
One wants to pay attention to the 3588 words the. No excuse now.

bugkiller

 

[mmksparbud]

Probably as many times as we must say and prove that Jesus and Moses had no conversation at Mt Sinai.


But I do have a question for you - What does Revelation say about creation and Who is responsible and gets credit for it?

bugkiller

In the end---God gets credit for everything--period. John says in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.All things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made. And He goes on to say that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say--Jesus is the creator of all, and He said He could do nothing without The Father. To tell you the truth, I have a tendency to use them interchangeably--I say God, even though the bible says it was Christ, yet Christ said it is all through Father God, and if you've seen Christ, then you've seen God---My brain can't wrap itself around all this, including the Holy Spirit and anybody who can--well, they either have a great intellect, are lying, or self-delusional.
I mean, who can really grasp something like this???--It will take the 2nd coming and Christ sitting down with me, one to one, to get me to fully comprehend it all---maybe.

 

[bugkiller]

I'm not sure my poor brain can follow this--are you saying that Jesus Christ, when He made the sabbath and sanctified and hallowed it--He sanctified it for Himself, because when Jesus Christ on earth said that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath He again meant Himself?? The greek says "the" man, not just man?--I don't have a Greek bible. So, assuming that you are correct and it says "The" it can only mean that it was made exclusively for Jesus only??----Why?---Jesus is both man and God when He was born. He had both natures. So the sabbath was made for his human nature, and His divine nature? Or it was made just for His human nature?--So Christ, when He made the sabbath, knowing He would one day be human and divine set aside a day of rest for His human side? But then, if that is true, He still set it aside for all men as He was setting a day of rest that He knew man would be needing--even Himself, for His human nature left Him weak, tired, sleepy, hungry, and in need of rest from from the everyday struggles and needed to have a day to spend with The Father as all men need.
Interesting idea.

Go to Mark 2:27 Biblos Interlinear Bible

2532 [e]
27 kai
27 καὶ
27 And
27 Conj3004 [e]
elegen
ἔλεγεν
he said
V-IIA-3S846 [e]
autois
αὐτοῖς ,
to them
PPro-DM3P3588 [e]
To
Τὸ
The
Art-NNS4521 [e]
sabbaton
σάββατον
Sabbath
N-NNS1223 [e]
dia
διὰ
on account of
Prep3588 [e]
ton
τὸν
the
Art-AMS444 [e]
anthrōpon
ἄνθρωπον
man
N-AMS1096 [e]
egeneto
ἐγένετο ,
was made
V-AIM-3S2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj3756 [e]
ouch
οὐχ
not
Adv3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
the
Art-NMS444 [e]
anthrōpos
ἄνθρωπος
man
N-NMS1223 [e]
dia
διὰ
on account of
Prep3588 [e]
to
τὸ
the
Art-ANS4521 [e]
sabbaton
σάββατον .
Sabbath
N-ANS

Pay attention to the 3588 word - the. This was taken from biblos linked above. No excuses.

bugkiller

 

[mmksparbud]

I do not have one either so I use an interlinear. This is a c&p form biblos.com

2532 [e]
27 kai
27 καὶ
27 And
27 Conj3004 [e]
elegen
ἔλεγεν
he said
V-IIA-3S846 [e]
autois
αὐτοῖς ,
to them
PPro-DM3P3588 [e]
To
Τὸ
The
Art-NNS4521 [e]
sabbaton
σάββατον
Sabbath
N-NNS1223 [e]
dia
διὰ
on account of
Prep3588 [e]
ton
τὸν
the
Art-AMS444 [e]
anthrōpon
ἄνθρωπον
man
N-AMS1096 [e]
egeneto
ἐγένετο ,
was made
V-AIM-3S2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj3756 [e]
ouch
οὐχ
not
Adv3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
the
Art-NMS444 [e]
anthrōpos
ἄνθρωπος
man
N-NMS1223 [e]
dia
διὰ
on account of
Prep3588 [e]
to
τὸ
the
Art-ANS4521 [e]
sabbaton
σάββατον .
Sabbath
N-ANS
One wants to pay attention to the 3588 words the. No excuse now.

bugkiller

Huh????

 

[bugkiller]

In the end---God gets credit for everything--period. John says in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.All things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made. And He goes on to say that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say--Jesus is the creator of all, and He said He could do nothing without The Father. To tell you the truth, I have a tendency to use them interchangeably--I say God, even though the bible says it was Christ, yet Christ said it is all through Father God, and if you've seen Christ, then you've seen God---My brain can't wrap itself around all this, including the Holy Spirit and anybody who can--well, they either have a great intellect, are lying, or self-delusional.
I mean, who can really grasp something like this???--It will take the 2nd coming and Christ sitting down with me, one to one, to get me to fully comprehend it all---maybe.

Yes ma'am, and that is part of the problem. The Book of the Law ( Ex 33:20) plainly states - And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Yet thousands saw Jesus face to face. Is Moses lying? He wrote the above.

bugkiller

 

[mmksparbud]

Oh--OK---
and he said to them the sabbath on account of the man was made and not the man on account of the sabbath


Ok--? Now what???

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes mam, and that is part of the problem. The Book of the Law ( Ex 33:20) plainly states - And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Yet thousands saw Jesus face to face. Is Moses lying? He wrote the above.

bugkiller

Call me mam once more and I will reach through this computer and slap you silly---

Yet thousands saw Jesus face to face--when??---and was that Jesus before or after His human birth??

 

[bugkiller]

Huh????

So what is the problem? You could not see the word the under the 3588 [e] entry? Use the provided link. It might make more sense. The c&p does not look like the same format here.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Call me mam once more and I will reach through this computer and slap you silly---

Yet thousands saw Jesus face to face--when??---and was that Jesus before or after His human birth??

Whatever you say madam. Please do not tell me you have not even read the gospels. Beginning to wonder about you. Jesus fed 5,000 men besides women and children with a little boys lunch of loves and fishes. Surely these people saw Jesus face to face. Who did Jesus preach to on the mount? No one saw Jesus at the wedding? Uncle!!!

bugkiller

 

[mmksparbud]

Whatever you say madam. Please do not tell me you have not even read the gospels. Beginning to wonder about you. Jesus fed 5,000 men besides women and children with a little boys lunch of loves and fishes. Surely these people saw Jesus face to face. Who did Jesus preach to on the mount? No one saw Jesus at the wedding? Uncle!!!

bugkiller

Right, all after His human birth--sonny--- So what was He like when He dwelt with His Father in heaven---if Moses had to be vieled because He had been in the presence of God--wouldn't Jesus have reflected that same unbearable light??

 

[MamaZ]

Highlighted for you. We, God's people can ignore what God has sanctified and be without sin? Moses could not even walk on holy ground with his shoes on but we can trample on holy sanctified and blessed time with great disregard? Is that what God expects, requires desires?

So God rested. Now we enter into the sabbath of God by resting from all our works if we are true believers in Christ. Unbelief keeps some from entering in scripture teaches us. Therefore it is not by works of the law that any man is justified. We are not declared just through Christ alone and by no workings of the law such as keeping a day and demanding it is the only way. Christ is the only way. We are at complete rest in Him and His work and death on the Cross and His complete ressurection.. Believers are now a sanctified and Holy People. God declares us this way.

 

[MamaZ]

Wait a minute! If we rest on Sabbath it is of works but if you keep Sunday it is not works? We don't do anything but seek to worship God and it is works? You seek to worship God on Sunday and it is not works? Come on.
That is folly.

Keep Sunday? I don't keep any day above the rest. Sundays is just like a monday to me. My worship of the Lord is a daily worship and a continual walk in His presence. So the folly is I don't believe in uplifting a day over another. For every day is the Day of the Lord.

 

[Elder 111]

Saz who?

bugkiller

You and Jesus Himself.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yea gads---how many times must we say that the keeping of the law will not save anyone?????-----Love for God and others is what Christ said--and He also said "On these 2 commandments, hang all the law and the prophets."---All the commandments hang on those 2. And Christ said that the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath--and who made the 4th commandment???---it was Christ, He was the one that created everything and made the sabbath from the very beginning at creation week for man.
He should know!!

The light that shone on the 4th commandment that EGW saw was because that is the one commandment that has been rejected and trampled on the most.

We are sons and daughters of God, always have been--but yes, as Christ came to serve and not be served, so are we to serve others--But we were made as His children, adopted by God, and when we love Him, we automatically do what that love for Him says. The commandments show how we are to love God and others.

Romans 5:14--"Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses even over them that had not sinned after the similitute of Adam's transgresion who is the figure of him that was to come."----After the similitute of Adam's transgresion--His transgresion was different from all others--He disobeyed God's command to not eat of the fruit of the tree--no other has commited that sin. Adam and Eve had a special commandment, Don't eat the fruit of that one tree.

mmksparbud, You're right that the Lord made everything. So he who made the world and everything in it also made the 7th day and the sabbath and he gave the third commandment along with the other nine commandments at mount Sinai. I agree with you. So what else did the Lord make and what other commands did he give at mount Sinai? My question is not entirely rhetorical, it may not seem obvious to you that the same Lord who gave the ten commandments also gave all the law in all of its details at mount Sinai. So if you believe that because the Lord gave the ten commandments and that because the Lord created everything you are therefore obligated to keep the ten commandments then why are you not obligated to keep the whole law? Why are you not obligated to keep the rules about how the sabbath was to be observed? Remember the passages in the law about what to do when a man or a woman violated the sabbath, what did those rules say and why don't you follow them? Do you keep the sabbaths that the Lord commanded for the holy convocations of Israel?

I guess you don't. I wonder why you think sabbath keeping is so important then if you do not keep it according to the Lord's commands? I guess I am being rhetorical now. I know you have some reason for what you do and why you do it and also why you don't do all the rules for sabbath keeping. I just asked because it looks kind of cafeteria style to me.

And I am still wondering why SDAs argue for the sabbath being given to Adam and his children as some kind of commandment when Paul does make it very clear that the law was not there from Adam to Moses. But I guess you have a reason for what you say, even if it somehow manages to contradict Paul.

Is the reason this: Ellen White said so and quoted verses that you accept as teaching the ten commandments were obligations on Adam and his progeny until Moses' time?

Anyway, thanks for your comments.

 

[bugkiller]

Right, all after His human birth--sonny--- So what was He like when He dwelt with His Father in heaven---if Moses had to be vieled because He had been in the presence of God--wouldn't Jesus have reflected that same unbearable light??

No ma'am. Jesus was in human form earth during His brief sojourn among us. God the Father is and was not. Jesus is not God the Father unless He is His own son. The Gospels prove this is not the case or Jesus is a deciever provable at His baptism.

bugkiller

 

[dollarsbill]

Did Jesus say to execute those who work on the Sabbath or to have mercy on them?

 

[bugkiller]

You and Jesus Himself.

And where is this post located where I said the sabbath is the Lord's Day?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

mmksparbud, You're right that the Lord made everything. So he who made the world and everything in it also made the 7th day and the sabbath and he gave the third commandment along with the other nine commandments at mount Sinai. I agree with you. So what else did the Lord make and what other commands did he give at mount Sinai? My question is not entirely rhetorical, it may not seem obvious to you that the same Lord who gave the ten commandments also gave all the law in all of its details at mount Sinai. So if you believe that because the Lord gave the ten commandments and that because the Lord created everything you are therefore obligated to keep the ten commandments then why are you not obligated to keep the whole law? Why are you not obligated to keep the rules about how the sabbath was to be observed? Remember the passages in the law about what to do when a man or a woman violated the sabbath, what did those rules say and why don't you follow them? Do you keep the sabbaths that the Lord commanded for the holy convocations of Israel?

I guess you don't. I wonder why you think sabbath keeping is so important then if you do not keep it according to the Lord's commands? I guess I am being rhetorical now. I know you have some reason for what you do and why you do it and also why you don't do all the rules for sabbath keeping. I just asked because it looks kind of cafeteria style to me.

And I am still wondering why SDAs argue for the sabbath being given to Adam and his children as some kind of commandment when Paul does make it very clear that the law was not there from Adam to Moses. But I guess you have a reason for what you say, even if it somehow manages to contradict Paul.

Is the reason this: Ellen White said so and quoted verses that you accept as teaching the ten commandments were obligations on Adam and his progeny until Moses' time?

Anyway, thanks for your comments.

I think you have a dead center hit on the target.

bugkiller

 

[mmksparbud]

mmksparbud, You're right that the Lord made everything. So he who made the world and everything in it also made the 7th day and the sabbath and he gave the third commandment along with the other nine commandments at mount Sinai. I agree with you. So what else did the Lord make and what other commands did he give at mount Sinai? My question is not entirely rhetorical, it may not seem obvious to you that the same Lord who gave the ten commandments also gave all the law in all of its details at mount Sinai. So if you believe that because the Lord gave the ten commandments and that because the Lord created everything you are therefore obligated to keep the ten commandments then why are you not obligated to keep the whole law? Why are you not obligated to keep the rules about how the sabbath was to be observed? Remember the passages in the law about what to do when a man or a woman violated the sabbath, what did those rules say and why don't you follow them? Do you keep the sabbaths that the Lord commanded for the holy convocations of Israel?

I guess you don't. I wonder why you think sabbath keeping is so important then if you do not keep it according to the Lord's commands? I guess I am being rhetorical now. I know you have some reason for what you do and why you do it and also why you don't do all the rules for sabbath keeping. I just asked because it looks kind of cafeteria style to me.

And I am still wondering why SDAs argue for the sabbath being given to Adam and his children as some kind of commandment when Paul does make it very clear that the law was not there from Adam to Moses. But I guess you have a reason for what you say, even if it somehow manages to contradict Paul.

Is the reason this: Ellen White said so and quoted verses that you accept as teaching the ten commandments were obligations on Adam and his progeny until Moses' time?

Anyway, thanks for your comments.

What I believe is that when God writes something down with His own finger on stone that He means it to be permanent. He did that only with the 10--not the others. And I'll let you know something--if EGW said anything different then that, then she would not be of God. To this day, when something is said to be written in stone, it means it's permanent and unchangeable. When something is changeable, they say--well, it isn't written in stone.
Whatever---the way things are going, hurricane Sandy being another example--we won't have too much longer before we all find out what God
is going to do and we get all our questions answered---Like I really have a problem with circumcision!! Why did He pick that body part?? Never could understand that!!