Ellen White on the Sabbath

[MoreCoffee]

What I believe is that when God writes something down with His own finger on stone that He means it to be permanent. He did that only with the 10--not the others. And I'll let you know something--if EGW said anything different then that, then she would not be of God. To this day, when something is said to be written in stone, it means it's permanent and unchangeable. When something is changeable, they say--well, it isn't written in stone.

Whatever---the way things are going, hurricane Sandy being another example--we won't have too much longer before we all find out what God
is going to do and we get all our questions answered---Like I really have a problem with circumcision!! Why did He pick that body part?? Never could understand that!!

I agree that God means what he says but I am wondering if you think that when God does't write with his own finger what he says then he doesn't mean it to be permanent? What do you make of this, "He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant: Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance" (Psalms 105:8-11) Is that permanent too?

What about, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Command the children of Israel, that they bring unto thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamps to burn continually. Without the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening unto the morning before the LORD continually: it shall be a statute for ever in your generations. He shall order the lamps upon the pure candlestick before the LORD continually. And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake. And thou shalt set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before the LORD. And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant."(Leviticus 24:1-8) Is that permanent too?

I feel a little bit suspicious about what you've written, I am wondering if you really mean that only the ten commandments are permanent because El;len White says so. I know that Jesus said that none of the law would pass away until all was fulfilled; he said that of the whole law, not just the ten commandments, so if you think that the ten commandments haven't passes away then it looks like none of the law has passed away. You'd need to obey the whole law if you want to obey the ten commandments. But I am sure you do not want to obey the whole law. So my suspicion is raised by what you wrote.

Thanks for your comments; and I do understand your perplexity regarding circumcision.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by mmksparbud What I believe is that when God writes something down with His own finger on stone that He means it to be permanent. He did that only with the 10--not the others. And I'll let you know something--if EGW said anything different then that, then she would not be of God. To this day, when something is said to be written in stone, it means it's permanent and unchangeable. When something is changeable, they say--well, it isn't written in stone.

Whatever---the way things are going, hurricane Sandy being another example--we won't have too much longer before we all find out what God
is going to do and we get all our questions answered---Like I really have a problem with circumcision!! Why did He pick that body part?? Never could understand that!!

Thanks for your comments; and I do understand your perplexity regarding circumcision.

What is so perplexing about it?

.

 

[mmksparbud]

I agree that God means what he says but I am wondering if you think that when God does't write with his own finger what he says then he doesn't mean it to be permanent? What do you make of this, "He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant: Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance" (Psalms 105:8-11) Is that permanent too?

What about, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Command the children of Israel, that they bring unto thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamps to burn continually. Without the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening unto the morning before the LORD continually: it shall be a statute for ever in your generations. He shall order the lamps upon the pure candlestick before the LORD continually. And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake. And thou shalt set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before the LORD. And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant."(Leviticus 24:1-8) Is that permanent too?

I feel a little bit suspicious about what you've written, I am wondering if you really mean that only the ten commandments are permanent because El;len White says so. I know that Jesus said that none of the law would pass away until all was fulfilled; he said that of the whole law, not just the ten commandments, so if you think that the ten commandments haven't passes away then it looks like none of the law has passed away. You'd need to obey the whole law if you want to obey the ten commandments. But I am sure you do not want to obey the whole law. So my suspicion is raised by what you wrote.

Thanks for your comments; and I do understand your perplexity regarding circumcision.

I mean that the 10 commandments are permanent because God wrote them down with His own finger. He meant business. And all has not been fulfilled, not till Jesus returns. Then God Himself will say--It is finished and come and get us, which can't come too son for me.
Yes, God said that the oil lamps were to be kept lit forever--He himself put them out when the veil was ripped at the time of Jesus death. So it wasn't forever--and this whole business about us having to stone people who do not keep the sabbath is really foolish. The Jews themselves could not kill anybody when under Roman occupation--They had to take Jesus to the Romans because they could not impose the death sentence anymore.
At the time Jesus died, the whole system of ceramonial laws and animal sacrifices was done away with--Jesus is now the new covenent, His death has been accepted by God as the blood sacrifice required for the forgiving of sins. None of the ceramonies pointing to the death of Jesus needed to continue anymore.
Sorry about your suspicions--Can't help you there! I yam what I yam.

 

[MoreCoffee]

mmksparbud, take a closer look at what Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17-18) Do you see that he says that "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" so if any of the law still applies then the whole law still applies; to say otherwise is to contradict what Jesus says.

 

[Elder 111]

And where is this post located where I said the sabbath is the Lord's Day?

bugkiller

Check post 658.

 

[bugkiller]

I agree that God means what he says but I am wondering if you think that when God does't write with his own finger what he says then he doesn't mean it to be permanent? What do you make of this, "He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant: Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance" (Psalms 105:8-11) Is that permanent too?

What about, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Command the children of Israel, that they bring unto thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamps to burn continually. Without the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening unto the morning before the LORD continually: it shall be a statute for ever in your generations. He shall order the lamps upon the pure candlestick before the LORD continually. And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake. And thou shalt set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before the LORD. And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant."(Leviticus 24:1-8) Is that permanent too?

I feel a little bit suspicious about what you've written, I am wondering if you really mean that only the ten commandments are permanent because El;len White says so. I know that Jesus said that none of the law would pass away until all was fulfilled; he said that of the whole law, not just the ten commandments, so if you think that the ten commandments haven't passes away then it looks like none of the law has passed away. You'd need to obey the whole law if you want to obey the ten commandments. But I am sure you do not want to obey the whole law. So my suspicion is raised by what you wrote.

Thanks for your comments; and I do understand your perplexity regarding circumcision.

What I want them to show is is how those things you mentioned are against us.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I mean that the 10 commandments are permanent because God wrote them down with His own finger. He meant business. And all has not been fulfilled, not till Jesus returns. Then God Himself will say--It is finished and come and get us, which can't come too son for me.
Yes, God said that the oil lamps were to be kept lit forever--He himself put them out when the veil was ripped at the time of Jesus death. So it wasn't forever--and this whole business about us having to stone people who do not keep the sabbath is really foolish. The Jews themselves could not kill anybody when under Roman occupation--They had to take Jesus to the Romans because they could not impose the death sentence anymore.
At the time Jesus died, the whole system of ceramonial laws and animal sacrifices was done away with--Jesus is now the new covenent, His death has been accepted by God as the blood sacrifice required for the forgiving of sins. None of the ceramonies pointing to the death of Jesus needed to continue anymore.
Sorry about your suspicions--Can't help you there! I yam what I yam.

Where are the stone tablets? Produce them for us. If they are in heaven show us where and when the went there.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Check post 658.

Well it was not in post 658 since it is your post. I was not even quoted in it.

bugkiller

 

[MamaZ]

I mean that the 10 commandments are permanent because God wrote them down with His own finger. He meant business. And all has not been fulfilled, not till Jesus returns. Then God Himself will say--It is finished and come and get us, which can't come too son for me.
Yes, God said that the oil lamps were to be kept lit forever--He himself put them out when the veil was ripped at the time of Jesus death. So it wasn't forever--and this whole business about us having to stone people who do not keep the sabbath is really foolish. The Jews themselves could not kill anybody when under Roman occupation--They had to take Jesus to the Romans because they could not impose the death sentence anymore.
At the time Jesus died, the whole system of ceramonial laws and animal sacrifices was done away with--Jesus is now the new covenent, His death has been accepted by God as the blood sacrifice required for the forgiving of sins. None of the ceramonies pointing to the death of Jesus needed to continue anymore.
Sorry about your suspicions--Can't help you there! I yam what I yam.

What we have been trying to show you is that the law was fulfilled. Jesus spoke it is finished. Therefore He fulfilled the law. Then He took upon Himself Our sins. The law which was written by the Finger of God was indeed fulfilled by His only begotton Son.

 

[dollarsbill]

What I believe is that when God writes something down with His own finger on stone that He means it to be permanent. He did that only with the 10--not the others. And I'll let you know something--if EGW said anything different then that, then she would not be of God. To this day, when something is said to be written in stone, it means it's permanent and unchangeable. When something is changeable, they say--well, it isn't written in stone.
Whatever---the way things are going, hurricane Sandy being another example--we won't have too much longer before we all find out what God
is going to do and we get all our questions answered---Like I really have a problem with circumcision!! Why did He pick that body part?? Never could understand that!!

He could have written the entire Bible on stone, but they didn't have a crane.

 

[mmksparbud]

What is so perplexing about it?

.

It's just that I find it bothersome to go around cutting on that particular body part---I'm sure He has a good reason for it, but I'm just curious as to why. It's not like it keeps me awake at nights, just wonder, that's all.

 

[mmksparbud]

mmksparbud, take a closer look at what Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17-18) Do you see that he says that "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" so if any of the law still applies then the whole law still applies; to say otherwise is to contradict what Jesus says.

That is funny--those are the verses that we usually use. Again, the only laws written by God Himself are the 10--and He was pretty adament about it--He wrote them twice as Moses broke the 1st set.
Now, I'm getting suspecious of you.

The 1st covenant required the sacrifice of animals and their blood sprinkled over the things of the earthly sanctuary, which were made in accordance to the pattern of the heavenly things--and the earthly High Priest went into the most holy place every year which contained the table of stone, the budded Aaron's rod, and the golden pot of manna. And the high priest "sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle,and all the vessels of the ministry. For almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission." Heb:9:21,22--That was for the "pattern
of the things in heaven." "but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these."
Heb 9:24 "For Christ is not entered in to the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but unto heaven itself, Now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest entered into the place with blood of others. For then must He often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed unto men, once to die and then the judgement: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many..."
"The said He, Lo, I come to do thy will O God. He taketh away the 1st that
He may establish the 2nd. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb 9:8-10.
The earthly sanctuary now of no use, since Christ went into the heavenly, --then Christ writes His law into our hearts,and into our minds, our bodies being His temples also.

 

[MoreCoffee]

mmksparbud, I see that you've forgotten that "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". But I do agree with you that the jots and tittles of the sacrifices have passed from the law so I think that we'd both have to agree that all has been fulfilled. And if all has been fulfilled then the whole law is passed away. I think you're doing that cafeteria thing again. You've decided you like having the ten commandments around so you said that not everything has been fulfilled and now you want to say everything has been fulfilled because you want to say that the sacrifices are a thing of the past. You can't really have it both ways. But I guess you have your reasons, perhaps Ellen White said so?

 

[Elder 111]

Where are the stone tablets? Produce them for us. If they are in heaven show us where and when the went there.

bugkiller

There were always there.

 

[Elder 111]

Well it was not in post 658 since it is your post. I was not even quoted in it.

bugkiller

Nice way to avoid it. You know what you have said and 658 is reply to that. Unless you are going to deny that you have said that the Sabbath was made for Jesus.

 

[bugkiller]

That is funny--those are the verses that we usually use. Again, the only laws written by God Himself are the 10--and He was pretty adament about it--He wrote them twice as Moses broke the 1st set.
Now, I'm getting suspecious of you.

The 1st covenant required the sacrifice of animals and their blood sprinkled over the things of the earthly sanctuary, which were made in accordance to the pattern of the heavenly things--and the earthly High Priest went into the most holy place every year which contained the table of stone, the budded Aaron's rod, and the golden pot of manna. And the high priest "sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle,and all the vessels of the ministry. For almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission." Heb:9:21,22--That was for the "pattern
of the things in heaven." "but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these."
Heb 9:24 "For Christ is not entered in to the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but unto heaven itself, Now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest entered into the place with blood of others. For then must He often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed unto men, once to die and then the judgement: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many..."
"The said He, Lo, I come to do thy will O God. He taketh away the 1st that
He may establish the 2nd. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb 9:8-10.
The earthly sanctuary now of no use, since Christ went into the heavenly, --then Christ writes His law into our hearts,and into our minds, our bodies being His temples also.

What law did you say was writen in our hearts and minds?

Did I read that correctly? or did you mean something the words do not say? I read Christ's law and not the law including the 10 Cs.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

There were always there.

And your proof to that clam is.....

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Nice way to avoid it. You know what you have said and 658 is reply to that. Unless you are going to deny that you have said that the Sabbath was made for Jesus.

I avoided nothing. I sad nothing even by quote in post 658. I responded to Lysimachus's post 554 about the word "the" with a discussion. And yes for the record I will state the sabbath was not made for all mankind. That would be calling Moses a liar which I will not do. Now please identify the man of MK 2:27. The implies a single specific entity and not one of many. If the word the was not there I would not have posed this question.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by mmksparbud That is funny--those are the verses that we usually use. Again, the only laws written by God Himself are the 10--and He was pretty adament about it--He wrote them twice as Moses broke the 1st set.
Now, I'm getting suspecious of you.

What law did you say was writen in our hearts and minds?

Did I read that correctly? or did you mean something the words do not say? I read Christ's law and not the law including the 10 Cs.

bugkiller

So do I

..

 

[MoreCoffee]

Never fear brothers bug killer & LittleLambOfJesus, sister mmksparbud means the ten commandments because Ellen White says so and because there are bible verses that mention the ten commandments in positive and special ways - like being written by the 'finger of God' on stone.

But when it comes to what Jesus said, the Lord who created everything and who sustains everything says, well then sister mmksparbud can be very flexible. That's why "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" somehow means that the sacrifices of the law are ended because they were fulfilled but the ten commandments do not end even if they are fulfilled.

I do wish our dear sister would explain why those words do not apply to the ten commandments since those commandments are, without any question, part of the law.

My bible has a good comment in its footnotes on those verses from Matthew 5. It says:

Matthew 5:17-20: This statement of Jesus’ position concerning the Mosaic law is composed of traditional material from Matthew’s sermon documentation (see note on Mt 5:1–7:29), other Q material (cf. Mt 18; Lk 16:17), and the evangelist’s own editorial touches. To fulfill the law appears at first to mean a literal enforcement of the law in the least detail: until heaven and earth pass away nothing of the law will pass (Mt 5:18). Yet the “passing away” of heaven and earth is not necessarily the end of the world understood, as in much apocalyptic literature, as the dissolution of the existing universe. The “turning of the ages” comes with the apocalyptic event of Jesus’ death and resurrection, and those to whom this gospel is addressed are living in the new and final age, prophesied by Isaiah as the time of “new heavens and a new earth” (Is 65:17; 66:22). Meanwhile, during Jesus’ ministry when the kingdom is already breaking in, his mission remains within the framework of the law, though with significant anticipation of the age to come, as the following antitheses (Mt 5:21–48) show.​