Ellen G White and SoP/ToJ references, for much error prevails ...

[CaptainToad]

You don't know what an assertion is?

Maybe you don't know

 

[CaptainToad]

Hmmm. so you want us to imagine that after Paul saying
1 Thess 4: 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Paul then said
2 Tim 4
6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.


Imagine that after Jonah said "YET FORTY DAYS and Ninevah will be destroyed"...

Jonah then said

Jonah 4: 1 "But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. 3 Therefore now, O Lord, please take my life"

Imagine that after Moses reports that God said " 8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites " Ex 3:8

And then after that we find this
Num 14:
22 because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not heeded My voice, 23 they certainly shall not see the land of which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it

28 Say to them, ‘As I live,’ says the Lord, ‘just as you have spoken in My hearing, so I will do to you: 29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above.

===========================

The very thing that same folks claim - could never happen




Did you find one of those texts "unclear"??

Let me put it this way. In regard to the latest context. I asked you a very simple question and yet you failed to answer. All you provide is a wall of prooftext which doesn't lead anywhere.

 

[BobRyan]

duplicate

 

[BobRyan]

Hmmm. so you want us to imagine that after Paul saying
1 Thess 4: 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Paul then said
2 Tim 4
6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.


Imagine that after Jonah said "YET FORTY DAYS and Ninevah will be destroyed"...

Jonah then said

Jonah 4: 1 "But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. 3 Therefore now, O Lord, please take my life"

Imagine that after Moses reports that God said " 8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites " Ex 3:8

And then after that we find this
Num 14:
22 because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not heeded My voice, 23 they certainly shall not see the land of which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it

28 Say to them, ‘As I live,’ says the Lord, ‘just as you have spoken in My hearing, so I will do to you: 29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above.

===========================

The very thing that same folks claim - could never happen

Did you find one of those texts "unclear"??

I am asking a very simple question ... and yet you failed.

Let me put it this way. In regard to the latest context. I asked you a very simple question and yet you failed .

is scripture a problem for you in this case?

(BTW you have come to an SDA forum so we are not included to just "ignore the Bible and listen to some wild speculation instead" - so you cannot present that as "your solution" as if that sort of thing is compelling)

 

[CaptainToad]

I am asking a very simple question ... and yet you failed.


is scripture a problem for you in this case?

(BTW you have come to an SDA forum so we are not included to just "ignore the Bible and listen to some wild speculation instead" - so you cannot present that as "your solution" as if that sort of thing is compelling)

Scripture isn't a problem for me. I do, however, know that scripture is very often abused. Its often much less about what scripture tries to tell us but more about proving a point of one's own as we can see in the variety of churches and deniminations.

So I am rather very careful when I see people quoting the scriptures and am less susceptible to manipulation, especially by means of prooftexting.

And while I do believe in the scriptures I have learnt to differentiate between everyday faith in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and what a certain passage in the bible might mean or might not mean.

Of course, I know I am in an SDA forum. You know, I used to be an SDA ! I just happened to visit this website after a long absence and this thread caught my attention. Op even specifically mentioned the food for worms prophecy and the so-called ignorant claims. I was curious! It sounded promising. So when I read that article I was rather disappointed and thought I would write a comment.
I don't wanna insult anyone's faith or intelligence here. I was an sda myself and know how people react towards anything that goes against the church and egw and how certain passages of the bible are highlighted as long as it serves the general narrative.

No worries, I am not interestes in becoming a permanent resident of this sub.

 

[BobRyan]

Rev 22: "20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

Phil 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

1 Thess 4: 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
.

Imagine Paul didn't know everything and said what he believed was true but turned out not to.
.

Hmmm. so you want us to imagine that after Paul saying
1 Thess 4: 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Paul then said
2 Tim 4
6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.


Imagine that after Jonah said "YET FORTY DAYS and Ninevah will be destroyed"...

Jonah then said

Jonah 4: 1 "But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. 3 Therefore now, O Lord, please take my life"

Imagine that after Moses reports that God said " 8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites " Ex 3:8

And then after that we find this
Num 14:
22 because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not heeded My voice, 23 they certainly shall not see the land of which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it

28 Say to them, ‘As I live,’ says the Lord, ‘just as you have spoken in My hearing, so I will do to you: 29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above.

===========================

The very thing that same folks claim - could never happen

Again twisting words and showing some prooftexts out of context.

So, am I right in the understanding, you claim Pauls text about remaining alive is the same as egws vision about the conference people remaining alive?

Did you find one of those texts "unclear"??

Scripture isn't a problem for me.

Finally! ok then no need to keep ignoring those texts regarding God's blessings and promises and the conditional nature of prophecy that we see in ... now what was that text again.??

Jer 18
6 “Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. 7 At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. 9 Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. 11 So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you

 

[CaptainToad]

Hmmm. so you want us to imagine that after Paul saying
1 Thess 4: 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Paul then said
2 Tim 4
6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.


Imagine that after Jonah said "YET FORTY DAYS and Ninevah will be destroyed"...

Jonah then said

Jonah 4: 1 "But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. 3 Therefore now, O Lord, please take my life"

Imagine that after Moses reports that God said " 8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites " Ex 3:8

And then after that we find this
Num 14:
22 because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not heeded My voice, 23 they certainly shall not see the land of which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it

28 Say to them, ‘As I live,’ says the Lord, ‘just as you have spoken in My hearing, so I will do to you: 29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above.

===========================

The very thing that same folks claim - could never happen




Did you find one of those texts "unclear"??



Finally! ok then no need to keep ignoring those texts regarding God's blessings and promises and the conditional nature of prophecy that we see in ... now what was that text again.??

Jer 18
6 “Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. 7 At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. 9 Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. 11 So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you

Totally does not fit the context!

 

[mmksparbud]

Scripture isn't a problem for me. I do, however, know that scripture is very often abused. Its often much less about what scripture tries to tell us but more about proving a point of one's own as we can see in the variety of churches and deniminations.

So I am rather very careful when I see people quoting the scriptures and am less susceptible to manipulation, especially by means of prooftexting.

And while I do believe in the scriptures I have learnt to differentiate between everyday faith in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and what a certain passage in the bible might mean or might not mean.

Of course, I know I am in an SDA forum. You know, I used to be an SDA ! I just happened to visit this website after a long absence and this thread caught my attention. Op even specifically mentioned the food for worms prophecy and the so-called ignorant claims. I was curious! It sounded promising. So when I read that article I was rather disappointed and thought I would write a comment.
I don't wanna insult anyone's faith or intelligence here. I was an sda myself and know how people react towards anything that goes against the church and egw and how certain passages of the bible are highlighted as long as it serves the general narrative.

No worries, I am not interestes in becoming a permanent resident of this sub.

Curious. You say you were an SDA---so now what do you believe? Are you a Sunday keeper? Do you now believe that we go to heaven or hell at death? What believes have you thrown away is what I am wondering.

 

[CaptainToad]

Curious. You say you were an SDA---so now what do you believe? Are you a Sunday keeper? Do you now believe that we go to heaven or hell at death? What believes have you thrown away is what I am wondering.

No, I haven't become a sunday keeper, neither do I believe in catholic hell.

I have strong doubts about adventist endtime prophecies, though.

 

[BobRyan]

Totally does not fit the context!

That was one of the more detailed reviews of scripture I have seen from you on this thread. Thanks for that proof.

 

[CaptainToad]

That was one of the more detailed reviews of scripture I have seen from you on this thread. Thanks for that proof.

That is so wholesome!

I have already said, not all prophecies are conditional (do I need to prove that? For real?) Egws worm prophecy was not conditional (the only condition was the 2nd coming; are you implying it might never happen?).

The general problem of your argumentation is conditionality. Let me take a guess, you only use that argument if it fits the general narrative, right?
Do you believe in revelation? Would you say it's conditional?

 

[BobRyan]

That is so wholesome!

I have already said, not all prophecies are conditional

Well we know the second coming will happen, we know the wicked will be destroyed .. that the event will happen is not conditional.

2 Peter 3: 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

But "looking for AND HASTENING" the second coming makes the timing conditional.

It was certain that God would take Israel from Egypt to Canaan and make them a nation - -but the timing was conditional. Moses never preached a message in Egypt of the form "come and die in the wilderness with me". As we all know.

Jeremiah 18 matters.

 

[mmksparbud]

No, I haven't become a sunday keeper, neither do I believe in catholic hell.

I have strong doubts about adventist endtime prophecies, though.

I have a great difficulty with numbers, they drive me nuts, and, unfortunately, God loves them. When numbers start getting thrown about, I loose track! I was raised one (SDA), left it for over 25 years and researched every faith out there including occult (had just gotten my own cards when I came back to God.) After I came back to God, next choice I had to make was what to come back to---and quite simply, for me, nothing else is as biblical as SDA so I've been back over 35 years. My stumbling block to coming back was that very prophecy you've been discussing---nothing else bothered me. I took it as, at the time it was made, the blue laws were all in place, and things did look very much like things were coming to a close. I just saw it as like with Nineveh, the time was not yet and was going to be if everything else had occurred, conditional. I just no longer found it a problem. End times was also a problem for me, esp. the thing about the beast and Sunday --- found it strange that it would be that in this county and I dove into it before I made my mind up of coming back to this church. In the end----well, darn it, nothing else, no other time sequences, no other scenarios added up like this does and I had no choice but to come back. Bummed me out at first as I did not want to come back!! And in those over 35 years, no one has convinced me otherwise. Not about any of it and I grew up hating all of it! Everyone was shocked I came back. What I have realized is this---even if she were to be proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be a false prophet---not one of the church doctrines would change for they are all biblically based. I read every single one of her books growing up--Now I've read them with a different heart and I am at peace with them all. I see no reason to jump ship again as all my questions and doubts and rebellion have been answered and are over. God has proven Himself to me over and over. I have no complaints.

 

[CaptainToad]

I have a great difficulty with numbers, they drive me nuts, and, unfortunately, God loves them. When numbers start getting thrown about, I loose track! I was raised one (SDA), left it for over 25 years and researched every faith out there including occult (had just gotten my own cards when I came back to God.) After I came back to God, next choice I had to make was what to come back to---and quite simply, for me, nothing else is as biblical as SDA so I've been back over 35 years. My stumbling block to coming back was that very prophecy you've been discussing---nothing else bothered me. I took it as, at the time it was made, the blue laws were all in place, and things did look very much like things were coming to a close. I just saw it as like with Nineveh, the time was not yet and was going to be if everything else had occurred, conditional. I just no longer found it a problem. End times was also a problem for me, esp. the thing about the beast and Sunday --- found it strange that it would be that in this county and I dove into it before I made my mind up of coming back to this church. In the end----well, darn it, nothing else, no other time sequences, no other scenarios added up like this does and I had no choice but to come back. Bummed me out at first as I did not want to come back!! And in those over 35 years, no one has convinced me otherwise. Not about any of it and I grew up hating all of it! Everyone was shocked I came back. What I have realized is this---even if she were to be proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be a false prophet---not one of the church doctrines would change for they are all biblically based. I read every single one of her books growing up--Now I've read them with a different heart and I am at peace with them all. I see no reason to jump ship again as all my questions and doubts and rebellion have been answered and are over. God has proven Himself to me over and over. I have no complaints.

I appreciate your testimony!

I am not saying its not possible. Its just hard for me to believe we all are just a byproduct of a delay.

 

[CaptainToad]

Well we know the second coming will happen, we know the wicked will be destroyed .. that the event will happen is not conditional.

2 Peter 3: 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

But "looking for AND HASTENING" the second coming makes the timing conditional.

It was certain that God would take Israel from Egypt to Canaan and make them a nation - -but the timing was conditional. Moses never preached a message in Egypt of the form "come and die in the wilderness with me". As we all know.

Jeremiah 18 matters.

Why would God give the worm prophecy to a bunch of people if He perfectly knew it wouldn't fulfill? It's not like it had an impact on anyone but rather caused confusion. In fact, this whole topic wouldn't exist.

 

[mmksparbud]

I appreciate your testimony!

I am not saying its not possible. Its just hard for me to believe we all are just a byproduct of a delay.

God does not delay---as the song goes, even when He's late---He's right on time. No one but the Father knows, this was not God that told her, it was an angel.

 

[CaptainToad]

God does not delay---as the song goes, even when He's late---He's right on time. No one but the Father knows, this was not God that told her, it was an angel.

Yeah.... an angel does not work on its own behalf I guess. An angel is a messenger, so no!

 

[mmksparbud]

Yeah.... an angel does not work on its own behalf I guess. An angel is a messenger, so no!

Angels are messengers sent from God. The unfallen ones, anyway. Mow---are the end time prophecies and this worm thing the only 2 things that bothered you, or are there more? What denomination are you now? Sorry---my husband used to call me Sherlock due to my curiosity.

 

[BobRyan]

Rev 22: "20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

Phil 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

1 Thess 4: 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
.

Imagine Paul didn't know everything and said what he believed was true but turned out not to.
.

Hmmm. so you want us to imagine that after Paul saying
1 Thess 4: 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Paul then said
2 Tim 4
6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.


Imagine that after Jonah said "YET FORTY DAYS and Ninevah will be destroyed"...

Jonah then said

Jonah 4: 1 "But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. 3 Therefore now, O Lord, please take my life"

Imagine that after Moses reports that God said " 8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites " Ex 3:8

And then after that we find this
Num 14:
22 because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not heeded My voice, 23 they certainly shall not see the land of which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it

28 Say to them, ‘As I live,’ says the Lord, ‘just as you have spoken in My hearing, so I will do to you: 29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above.

===========================

The very thing that same folks claim - could never happen

Again twisting words and showing some prooftexts out of context.

So, am I right in the understanding, you claim Pauls text about remaining alive is the same as egws vision about the conference people remaining alive?

Did you find one of those texts "unclear"??

Scripture isn't a problem for me.

Finally! ok then no need to keep ignoring those texts regarding God's blessings and promises and the conditional nature of prophecy that we see in ... now what was that text again.??

Jer 18
6 “Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. 7 At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. 9 Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. 11 So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you

Why would God give the worm prophecy to a bunch of people if He perfectly knew it wouldn't fulfill?

?? Why would God give the "land flowing with milk and honey" prophecy to Israel when He knew they would die in the desert?

?? why would God give the "40 days and Ninevah will be destroyed" prophecy when He knew that in 40 days they would not be destroyed.

So then you "are" reading the Jer 18 text... or just ignoring it more??

At this point I find your logic illusive.

It's not like it had an impact on anyone

hun?? not having the second coming in the 1800s did not "impact anyone"??

seriously??

Maybe the OP should have included "please be serious in your responses"

 

[Gary K]

Maybe you don't know

Here. I'll help you out.

WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) (wn)
assertion
n 1: a declaration that is made emphatically (as if no
supporting evidence were necessary) [syn: assertion,
averment, asseveration]

Here is your assertion:

Again twisting words and showing some prooftexts out of context.

I once again ask you, where is your scriptural evidence to support your assertion?