El Paso border fence cut crime dramatically

[USincognito]

Yeah, but what's, um, special here is that crime actually increased, not decreased.

Feh, facts. Who needs them when one can have narrative.

 

[childeye 2]

Did construction of a border fence cut down on crime rates in El Paso?
"El Paso used to have one of the highest crime rates in America," Paxton said. "After that fence went up and separated Juarez, which still has an extremely high crime rate, the crime rates in El Paso now are some of the lowest in the country. So we know it works."

Dear sir, the article you posted shows in the statistics provided that the wall did not decrease the crime rates. Was that your intention?

 

[Sparagmos]

First know that I am not a smart man. I don't know politics or anything about money because I have never had enough to worry about anyhow.
However common horse sense tells me that a country fixes it's problems by firstly stopping all outside aid to others... Build that build fence, keep jobs here in America and get this country financially secure and God blessed again,
Then at that point we will be very powerful and will be able to extend aid and help others to get on their feet. No more frede handouts but handups.

Common sense tells me that if your cows are starving, Don't throw their hay over the fence to feed the neighbors cows. Your first priority is your own cows as your neighbor has his responsibilities.

This is my southern fried view of how it should be. IDK, Maybe I should run for President.

But our country is not poor, in fact we are very, very rich. Poverty exists in our country primarily because of greed and exploitation.

 

[Belk]

ad hominem; presumption of innocence hasn't been stricken from our legal system just yet.

This is not a court of law.

 

[Radagast]

From 2006 to 2011 — two years before the fence was built to two years after — the violent crime rate in El Paso increased by 17 percent.

Which, of course, proves zilch, since it's the change after 2008 that's important.

And there was, in fact, a drop in at least the murder rate after 2008.

 

[USincognito]

Which, of course, proves zilch, since it's the change after 2008 that's important.

And there was, in fact, a drop in at least the murder rate after 2008.

Those are some great statistics. They show that the greatest decrease in murders happened long before there was a border fence.

• 80-89 36 515,342 7.0
• 90-99 36 563,662 6.4
• 00-09 16 649,121 2.5
• 10-16 16 681,124 2.3

edit - Actually there was only a drop in the murder rate during 2009 to 2010 after the wall was built. In 2011 it jumped back up to 16 and in 2012 hit the highest number since 1999 at 23. I thought you said the fence caused a drop in the murder rate after 2008 when it increased in 2011 and 2012.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Dear sir, the article you posted shows in the statistics provided that the wall did not decrease the crime rates. Was that your intention?

I should have read further no harm intended my deepest apologies offered.
M-Bob

 

[KCfromNC]

I should have read further no harm intended my deepest apologies offered.
M-Bob

I'm curious - were you attempting to cite this article as support for Trump's wall? If so, now that you know that the fence didn't help, are you reconsidering your support for Trump's attempts to get a wall built?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I'm curious - were you attempting to cite this article as support for Trump's wall? If so, now that you know that the fence didn't help, are you reconsidering your support for Trump's attempts to get a wall built?

No

 

[KCfromNC]

No

To which question?

 

[cow451]

Do the goats understand it is wrong to bleat false witness?

That’s bad even by my standards

 

[cow451]

I should have read further no harm intended my deepest apologies offered.
M-Bob

I, for one, appreciate your willingness to acknowledge an error.

 

[childeye 2]

I should have read further no harm intended my deepest apologies offered.
M-Bob

I believe you when you say you intended no harm. However, I see a great amount of misinformation being presented in support for a wall, and it is deceiving many people and causing great harm.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would try to empathize with my point of view and come to understand why I am not for Donald Trump, nor his wall.

When then candidate Donald Trump began his campaign for the Presidency of the United States, he intimated that the people coming over the border were rapists, drug smugglers, and generally criminal elements intent on doing harm. When I heard this, I knew he was a liar trying to produce fear for the sake of political expediency. Then when he said that he wanted to build a great wall to protect us and that he would get Mexico to pay for it, I knew that he was a thief. I watched his rallies where angry people cheered him on. They plainly were unaware of the psycho semantics occurring in his words.

So you see, that for me to be for the wall would be to accept falsehood as true, and stealing from others as justifiable because of it. To me, Mr. Trump needs his wall only to validate his own prejudice.

So I must take issue with those who support Trump, in pointing out all of the many false arguments that those like yourself have put forth in defense of what I clearly see, for the reasons given above, as a delusional fantasy.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Most of the Border Patrol supports having a wall.

Most of the people I know in San Diego support having a wall.

Thus, we have this house support the wall.

Question does the wall help to keep out some of the bad element?

Good enough.

M-Bob

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I would greatly appreciate it if you would try to empathize with my point of view and come to understand why I am not for Donald Trump, nor his wall.

When then candidate Donald Trump began his campaign for the Presidency of the United States, he intimated that the people coming over the border were rapists, drug smugglers, and generally criminal elements intent on doing harm. When I heard this, I knew he was a liar trying to produce fear for the sake of political expediency. Then when he said that he wanted to build a great wall to protect us and that he would get Mexico to pay for it, I knew that he was a thief. I watched his rallies where angry people cheered him on. They plainly were unaware of the psycho semantics occurring in his words.

So you see, that for me to be for the wall would be to accept falsehood as true, and stealing from others as justifiable because of it. To me, Mr. Trump needs his wall only to validate his own prejudice.

So I must take issue with those who support Trump, in pointing out all of the many false arguments that those like yourself have put forth in defense of what I clearly see, for the reasons given above, as a delusional fantasy.

It is being said that when Trump made his pitch for the wall the other night two-thirds of the American public agree with him. Regarding the wall -- I stand with the majority.
M-Bob

 

[Jamsie]

It is being said that when Trump made his pitch for the wall the other night two-thirds of the American public agree with him. Regarding the wall -- I stand with the majority.
M-Bob

Do you have a source for that? Here is one - Poll: President Trump's speech failed to build support for border wall among California voters

 

[Jamsie]

It is being said that when Trump made his pitch for the wall the other night two-thirds of the American public agree with him. Regarding the wall -- I stand with the majority.
M-Bob

Here is another : Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Do you have a source for that? Here is one - Poll: President Trump's speech failed to build support for border wall among California voters

Well no surprise if you're talking about wacky California where I live. I believe the report that I heard took in all of the states.
Probably called -- to average.
M-Bob

 

[Jamsie]

Well no surprise if you're talking about wacky California where I live. I believe the report that I heard took in all of the states. Probably called -- to average.M-Bob

Source?

Voters blame Trump, Republicans for shutdown in poll | Democrats to probe family separation, detention

Trump's Border Wall Speech Blamed Democrats for the Shutdown. Polls Show Americans Blame Him

A growing number of Americans blame Trump for shutdown: Reuters-Ipsos poll | Reuters

 

[loveofourlord]

ad hominem; presumption of innocence hasn't been stricken from our legal system just yet.

Congrats on using the fallacy fallacy, perhaps you shouldn't attack others while using one yrouself.

 

[childeye 2]

It is being said that when Trump made his pitch for the wall the other night two-thirds of the American public agree with him. Regarding the wall -- I stand with the majority.
M-Bob

Dear M-Bob, I want you to know that I have studied psycho semantics obsessively for most of my life. Please allow me to show you what your words reveal about how your mind is processing this issue.

Please note that I gave you facts to support my reasoning of why it is wrong to support Trump and his wall. In doing so I drew a clear distinction between what is right and wrong according to the great commandment of love others as you would want to be loved. However, your words do not argue against the facts I put forth in search of any moral clarity. Instead you ignore those facts as if it's a matter of opinion as to whether it's right or wrong to slander others and steal from them.

I would like to point out this truth, that even if the majority of people were controlled through believing a lie as true, it still would not make the lie true.