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Featured Eating dairy

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by treefencecar, Dec 1, 2016.

  1. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Yes, but adopting vegetarianism because it is desirable, beneficial, healthy and may lead to a longer life is not the same as adopting it because God has commanded that it should be this way.

    Yet fish and meat are good sources of protein and people have always eaten them. I know of vegetarians who have died at my age, or even long before. I know of meat eaters who have lived into their 90s, or maybe older.

    But God has not commanded, or even advised, us how to maintain this temple. Like I say, some people, lifelong meat eaters, like a drink, possibly even smoke, or used to, have lived to be over 90. A friend of mine, 6 years younger than me and a vegetarian, died over a decade ago.

    If we weren't supposed, or allowed, to, it would be forbidden.

    Why would I, and who do you think would listen to me? I'm not God, I'm not influential and I can't add to the words of Scripture.

    We don't know.
    The point is that the Bible does not teach, never mind command, vegetarianism - and that God himself ate meat. How often you eat it may be a matter of taste (no pun intended), conscience or something else. But it is not wrong to eat it.

    Depends what you mean by healthy.
    Fish and chicken are healthy; oily fish is very healthy.
    Some nuts are very salty - bad for high blood pressure - and contain fat, or oil.
    Some vegetarian diets may not contain all the proteins and nutrients needed, making them actually quite unhealthy.

    Maybe.
    But like I said, I know Christian, vegetarians and/or healthy eaters who have still died young, and Christian meat eaters who are 90 years young. It may not be the norm - statistics may show otherwise, but it happens. You hear people saying "but he never had a days illness in his life" - before the stroke which killed him. If God wanted to show/teach us, or make the point to us that we should all be vegetarians, a) he would have said so in Scripture and not given the Israelites lamb to eat, and b) it would always be the case that vegetarians live longer than meat eaters.

    And it depends what you mean by "polluting the body". As I see it, it is the ready meals, sauces with added e numbers and the addition of extra sugar/salt/fat which does that. Nothing wrong with chicken, potatoes of some form and vegetables. Or poached/smoked salmon. Or a Sunday roast with lots of vegetables.

    I don't drink alcohol, at all. Yet there are studies which show that red wine is good for you, in moderation.
     
  2. Mountain_Girl406

    Mountain_Girl406 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think if you are vegetarian for ethical reasons, it's consistent to also be vegan, as the abuses and loss of life in the dairy and egg industries are significant as well.
    I can't imagine how what you don't eat could become a deal breaker in a relationship, unless you are maybe involved with someone in the dairy industry.
    I've been vegan for almost a decade, no health issues or nutritional deficiencies.
     
  3. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    You got to sort out issues with the gf if shes an unbeliever dont be unequally yoked. Two cant walk together if they dont agree.

    Read galatians, romans. Seemed to be a deal breaker for jewish and gentile believers who couldnt fellowship at the same table even. Not fun eating alone.

    How do you view the passover lamb? Do you take the Lords supper?

    To this day, kosher jews dont mix meat and dairy together. They wont seethe a kid in its mothers milk...see deuteronomy...which some take literally. So they have two kitchen sinks one for meat and one for dairy. No cheezburgers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  4. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    Veganism is better, such as what is shown of things I said, with there being information to back those up, who is saying God commanded it to be that way? But it was in the perfection of the design for what was provided for humanity in the beginning. When animal product was provided (provisionally), lifespans dropped off the fastest in the following years. God will have a return to that design in the world to come, with the redeemed of humanity, and for eternity.

    Fish and meat are good sources of protein? You get that from sources of slanted information. They have protein that is good, but they have enough other stuff that is not good, so I can question how they are good sources. Foods from plants have protein, and enough. You maybe haven't heard about that. Yes, not all essential amino acids in proteins are found in every fruit and vegetable for us. But those in combination with grains do collectively provide all those essential amino acids in protein, and important vitamins and minerals, along with nutritional fiber. With a plant-based diet we should just pay attention for getting vitamin B12, which is in certain fortified foods, along with being in supplements, they are not really from animals anymore than plants, but are produced from certain bacteria.

    You know certain meat eaters that lived longer than certain vegetarians you know? Really, if you knew those individuals and will make an absolute decision with that anecdote as basis, you are missing a lot of overall evidence showing the trend is the other way, with vegans having the best chance with longevity.

    God though does tell us to take care of our bodies well, it's a basis to not go on smoking, it can apply to eating better, when you know of it.

    God said it. Why not take what God said literally? In fact, why think the Creator doesn't care for other creatures, passages in the Bible show God does care for them.
     
  5. Strong in Him

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    You're clearly passionate about veganism, and you could well be correct that it is better for you and that, overall, vegans live longer.
    But if it was commanded in Scripture, then when God came to earth, in Jesus, he would have adopted that diet. Jesus ate lamb, at the Passover, and fish.
    All living creatures were given as food after the flood. The Israelites ate quail in the wilderness, and were only told what meat was unclean.
    The early church had discussions about unclean food, but the implication is that they ate clean meat - Paul tackled their question about meat sold in the market place that might have been offered to idols.

    If it was forbidden to eat eat at all, then all these people, and God himself, disobeyed Scripture.
     
  6. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and back then the animals were raised and bred at home, not fed a diet of hormones and antibiotics and kept in cramped quarters. They would fatten them up for slaughter, but not by cruel means, just let them eat more. And they were not fed stuff they did not normally eat, they, were free range more and fed according to what they normally would eat in the winter months not all this GMO food they get now.Most people butchered their own. It can be very difficult to kill an animal you have raised from birth.
    there would be butchers, but small business type, not these large scale types. Mistreatment of animals was frowned on. Foie gras, duck liver in France, is obtained by keeping a duck in a cage too small for them to move around much, every few hours a tube comes down and is shoved down their throats and they are force fed. They get obscenely fat. The purpose is to fatten their livers. The birds are sitting there unable to do anything except be forced fed and are so miserable they act as though they are dopped up. They look like they wish they were dead. I cried when I saw this and have never eaten it again. It is beyond cruel. I used to love the stuff.
     
  7. masmpg

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    Here is a great video about how the earth is treated by corporate money mongers. John Robbins is Baskin Robbins son, and although very new age this message is very pointed.

     
  8. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    It is not about whether I am passionate or not, I suspect others are more so about these issues, I just show facts as they are, and saying it is passionate could be a form of being dismissive.

    I also have said this is not about God commanding something, or forbidding, so this doesn't need to be still alleged.

    But there are things that Yahweh permitted, and there is still further beyond that God's perfect will, which is distinct. Yahweh had permitted slaves, marriage of some women to those who had raped them, polygamy, and more things that would seem offensive to some now. The permission for having meat from animals at that unique time was still qualified, which you disregard with the responses.

    With using the incident of quail provided you overlook much of what was involved. The people of Israel did not look for Yahweh's perfect will, they didn't even accept it, for the mannah from Heaven was perfect for what they needed. They were greedy for the kind of stuff they might have while still being used in the land they had been delivered from. And they grumbled, God supplied that meat on that occasion, and as they took it without thanks to Yahweh the provider, God's wrath was aroused, and God struck them with a plague. Numbers 11:18-33

    If you make claims for what Jesus ate, such as lamb, you should be ready with passages showing Jesus did so. One and just one verse speaks of some fish for food to Jesus, and original manuscripts speak of honeycomb. Did Jesus eat both? That actually wasn't said. Was it fish covered in honey? :( Was it fish wrapped in a honeycomb like a taco? It is not clear, but with honeycomb and fish available, most of us would not choose to have it together. The point of that one single passage is not about what Jesus ate, and it certainly doesn't show what he ate through his life in this world, it was proving that after his death he was yet a living being that could still eat.

    That early apostolic council further validated the prohibitions with having meat that were first given with that original permission, you disregard that still.

    God's higher will is with the Creator's unlimited compassion and love still. Meat from animals being used for it is not what happens in Heaven, and where redeemed believers go to be for eternity.
     
  9. Strong in Him

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    Well actually, I think it is.

    The OP said that they had read/been told that Christians should be vegans.
    He is currently vegetarian, and the issue was that his girlfriend would not be happy if he cut out dairy altogether. His question was; does the Bible say anything to support reducing/cutting out dairy products from our diet?

    The answer is, "no; the Bible says nothing about being vegan".
    The conversation has since moved onto asking what the Bible says about vegetarianism. Some say that it was God's will for mankind, and is therefore good and preferable - because it was the diet Adam and Eve had before the fall. Others say that God gave Noah all living things for food - some restrictions, but meat was not forbidden. The same was true in Moses' time; the Israelites were to eat lamb as part of their Passover meal. Unclean meat wasn't allowed, but they were not told they could not eat meat at all.
    So this is debatable. But as to the question in the OP; veganism is not mentioned in Scripture, nor instructions about what/what not to include in our diets.

    ??
    Not quite sure what you're saying here. God gave Noah every living animal for food. The Israelites were later commanded to celebrate Passover which included eating lamb. If you're looking for Scriptural instructions for/examples of people eating meat, then Scripture says that people did.

    So the Israelites asked God for meat and he graciously gave them meat, even though he didn't want them to have it??
    God struck them with a plague because they did not give thanks, forgot God's many blessings to them and continued to grumble against him - not because they eate meant which he himself had provided for them.

    Lamb was the main ingredient in the Passover meal, Exodus 12:1-11. We know that Jesus celebrated one last Passover meal with his friends, Matthew 26:17-30. The Gospels say "while they were eating" and "after the meal", not "they had the Passover, minus the lamb".
    We are not told, but as a Jew, Jesus would have observed the Passover each year. It was one of 3 feasts that adult Jews were expected to keep, and for which they had to travel to Jerusalem. Even if you argued that there is no Scriptural evidence that Jesus kept previous Passovers; he ate one meal before he died.

    Luke says that after the resurrection Jesus ate a piece of fish, to prove that he wasn't a ghost. John says that Jesus cooked them fish on the beach, John 21. There are also passages which say that Jesus ate wit tax collectors and sinners - true, it doesn't say that they ate meat, but neither does it say that they didn't.
    The only issue they had with meat, in those days, was unclean meat. If they had been forbidden to eat any meat/fish whatsoever, there would not be a list in Leviticus stating which meat was unclean - it all would have been.

    I don't know about that.
    Is the word for "honeycomb" the same as the word for "fish"? I'll look it up in my interlinear Greek NT and find out.

    Yes, granted.
    But the implication seemed to be that eating meat is forbidden, by God, in Scripture - and yet he ate it himself.

    No, they told new Christians not to eat meat that still had blood in it, and not to eat meat that had been offered to idols. Why put those restrictions on, if they weren't supposed to eat meat at all?
    Paul later said that an idol meant nothing, so if someone could eat meat offered to an idol without others being led astray by their actions; they could do so.

    How do you know?
    One day we will sit down to a heavenly banquet - the marriage feast of the Lamb. How do you know that meat and fish will be off the menu?

    Do you know what happened after the fall, when Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nakedness? God made them garments from animal skins. True, it's not eating meat, but many vegetarians wouldn't wear anything made from animal skin/fur; yet God used this to make robes for Adam and Eve to wear.

    So if we are going to be vegetarians for all eternity; why not eat meat now?
     
  10. masmpg

    masmpg Well-Known Member

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    God gave mankind the perfect diet. Why not He created us. Man sinned and turned our sinless nature into sinful nature, so God gave mankind animal flesh to eat, which drastically shortened man's lifespan. God told man to present our BODIES a LIVING sacrifice, HOLY and ACCEPTABLE unto God. How do we do this??? By eating things that studies have proven to be harmful to our health? NOPE! By reverting to God's original plan for mankind. A diet of fruit and grains ONLY! Vegetables were added after sin! This is simple logic. Any intellectualization is, well, excuses as far as I'm concerned.
     
  11. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    The Bible doesn't have the word vegan in it, that really doesn't mean it doesn't have anything to say about it. Many points made show that.

    Those statements in the Bible are not being for a debate, there is the distinction between the perfect will of Yahweh and the permission for meat given that are both accounted for. So meat isn't forbidden after Yahweh spoke of it when Noah sacrifices to Yahweh after the global flood that rid the land of the living, after all the generations that didn't have it permitted, but it is not better, the points made show it is better to not have the animal products, it isn't of that perfect design that was provided, many harms come from having such (which tends to still be overlooked unfortunately), there are required things to observe with having meat that is yet being disregarded, and such permission is certainly not meant to last.

    I think it should be clear what requirements there are with permission for meat from animals. Along with discussion about responsibility to life and about murder, there is requirement to have all blood removed from meat to have it. With having meat you still don't have permission for it with not having blood removed from it.

    The instructions from Moses were not requirement for each and every to have meat, when the object of the observation is the blood used from a slaughtered animal for the Passover that happened. Meat that was had was as it was throughout tied to sacrifice being made. So you are wrong with making a doctrinal statement that Jesus ate lamb, that can't be logically inferred, and it isn't shown with Bible passages. And if you don't see honeycomb being mentioned with the last thing that was said for what was available to Jesus for food, look in other translations. The original writing shows it was a choice for him.

    With permission, meat wasn't forbidden if the requirements were meant, but designating some as unclean puts into question how good meat is for any.

    How do I know?
    In Isaiah 11
    “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
    The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
    The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
    And a little child shall lead them.
    The cow and the bear shall graze;
    Their young ones shall lie down together;
    And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
    The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
    And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
    They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
    For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Yahweh
    As the waters cover the sea."

    God made tunics of skin, you add that they were from slain animals to make your point, and that still isn't about having meat.

    Why not have meat now? You have permission, though this is really not meant to last, if you observe the requirements. Still, as is being said, it isn't better, it isn't with respect to health, or the other issues there are, and it isn't closer to God's perfect will, and not had with sincerely wanting God's will as it is in Heaven in this world.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  12. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    I know it doesn't.
    I'm not aware that the Bible says anything about eating eggs, cheese and dairy products; far less forbids it.

    It's a matter of interpretation.
    You say that the perfect diet was given in the Garden of Eden, and that after the fall, meat was allowed. It was not really part of God's perfect, or original, plan, but he allowed it.
    I say that it was slightly more than "allowing" it. The Jews were told, commanded, to eat the Passover; one of their great feats to remember the exodus from Egypt and what God had done for them. How did God tell them to keep this; by saying, "you are my holy people and it is my will that you only eat vegetables with no dairy allowed?" No, he told them to kill and eat a lamb. The issue with the Jews, and the early church, was one of unclean food/meat offered to idols. They would not have needed to debate this if they didn't eat meat at all. And like I say, not eating meat is a vegetarian diet, not vegan.

    This is still all about meat; I thought you said there were many points in the Bible that indicated a vegan diet?
    So where does Scripture specifically say that we shouldn't eat eggs, cheese, yogurt or drink milk?

    No, but vegetarians I know wouldn't wear anything made from animal skins/fur.
    It would be inconsistent, if not hypocritical, to refrain from meat and then wear a real fur coat and carry a leather handbag.

    Scripture does not say, " 'it is my perfect will that you don't eat meat or fish' says the Lord." That has been assumed, or read in, because meat was not eaten before the fall.
    God came to earth as a human being; God ate meat and fish - good enough for me. All of this still does not answer the question of the OP; does the Bible support being vegan, or partially vegan?
     
  13. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    God the Creator cares for the creation and its creatures, with being unlimited in any divine quality. See the account in the first chapter of Genesis and Isaiah 11:6-9, and know Proverbs 12:10 shows this.

    By the time of the people of Israel sacrificing and having meat was already practiced. Relationship with Yahweh their Maker was so important, with it to be seen as being right with God, and whether it was better if they had meat or not wasn't an issue to have interfere with that, which it would have. But God used those practices for the essential faith, for what is fulfilled in Christ, with which that happening no animal has to die for us.

    We should not abandon moral considerations, such as compassion for others, concern for all of God’s creation, feeding those in need, and caring for our God-given bodies, all of which favor a plant-based diet. This is scriptural basis for vegan eating, especially with honestly looking open-eyed at the reality with all the issues in the industry of animal agriculture.

    Remember,
    God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was Very Good.
    Shown from Genesis 1.


    I agree about that use of animal products being an issue.

    Meat was not commanded for each person to eat, that wasn't shown. And it was not inarguably shown that Jesus was eating meat by practice, so this is just being insisted in that argument.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  14. Strong in Him

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    It may be; yes. I can understand that a vegetarian, or vegan, may well say, "we are to honour our bodies as temples of the Holy Spirit; the Bible says this. Meat is poison, was not given to Adam and Eve to eat, so it's not healthy - therefore, the Bible says that we shouldn't eat meat."
    But the Bible doesn't say that.
    If it was a command; what God really wanted for, and expected of, his people, it would be spelt out - and it isn't. The only divine laws about food relate to unclean food and were given to the Israelites in the OT.

    But God did not command us to cut out dairy products and eat nothing but vegetables.

    Jews were commanded to celebrate the Passover; one of God's holy feasts. And at the Passover, Lamb was eaten. As a Jewish man, Jesus celebrated Passover - he wanted to celebrate the Passover one last time with his disciples before he died.
    Many of the disciples were fishermen. I can't prove that they never ate any of the fish that they caught; I think it very likely that they did. And Scripture does say that on one occasion, Jesus ate a piece of fish. Even if you could prove to me that that was the only occasion on which he did so, he still did it. He could have eaten some bread or a carrot, but Scripture says it was fish - which also means the disciples must have been eating fish at the time.

    If God hadn't wanted, or allowed, them to eat meat at all, why differentiate between clean and unclean? Why not say "mean of any kind is forbidden"? But that's not what he said to Noah, nor Moses, re Passover.

    So the answer to the OP is still, "no, the Bible does not say anything about reducing your dairy intake or becoming vegan. You might, yourself, be convinced that doing so is the best way to stay healthy and honour God - but he doesn't command it."
     
  15. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    But this post is still an argument to the OP. If I am quoted it should be in discussion to what I post. Since I deny that it is a commandment to us to not have animal products, arguing that there is no such commandment is a straw-man argument. It wasn't a commandment, Yahweh had permitted taking animals for food, with requirements that were given, whether those are observed or not, and concedes using meat for a time. So with animal sacrifices being done, as the people of Israel continued to do, there was going to be meat had, as there was. Yahweh did not forbid it, and with speaking of unclean meat, and requirements still, as eliminating blood from it before it is cooked for having, there is suggestion still that it is not the best to have for food. Yahweh had importance put on relationship made available between the people of Israel and Yahweh, and for those who would come joined in covenant for it, with essential faith made possible, and sacrifice was used for that and no issue was made over the meat, to interfere with that. In the same way, I can see fewer would become Christian if they had to be vegan to do so, just as less would be baptized believers if baptisms were still done nude, as they were, which has since stopped. But it is shown in discussion already that vegan eating is indeed really better, so no argument is effective to say it isn't. It is indeed shown in the Bible, the original provision, not just before sin but after sin came, for many generations for hundreds and hundreds of years, was all that was provided in what was permitted to humanity. When it changed after the drastic changes with not enough vegetation available, and after sacrifice was made, it was with the restricting requirements given, which those talking of the permission do overlook, and speaking of it in connection to responsibility to life, and about murder. And still having anything of an animal wasn't required, and when Daniel and his friends willingly gave it up and had vegetable food and water, they were certainly more healthy. That this happens is confirmed with what is shown among vegans now. The visions still show there will be return to that, the redeemed will see that, there is future only with that.

    God still shows compassion for creation and the creatures in it. Humanity had communion with other creatures originally, many people care for pets which is a memorial of that. Animals could communicate with people, just as the ass did to Balaam, when enabled. Proverbs 12:10, for one, can still be seen for showing the Creator caring for the creatures, there are other passages for it such as in Psalms.

    I have addressed that Jesus is not known to have been having meat himself from Bible passages, and have said it wasn't requirement for all with Passover. Jews did have meat and fish often enough, so disciples such as the fishermen did too. That Jesus didn't focus on stopping them from that when there were certainly important principles to teach them doesn't show he had meat or that he didn't use his example not eating such. Honeycomb that I mentioned was offered to him was disregarded, to say he definitely had fish then, which isn't definite from that. There are traditions that show that some apostles anyway stopped having meat.

    Permission for animal products does not at all show permission for animals being abused and for disregarding it anyway to have such. Thus along with being healthier to be vegan, there is basis, and with scriptures, to say it is better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  16. Strong in Him

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    1. Well Scripture does clearly say that on one occasion, Jesus ate fish. it may have been the only time he did so, though I don't believe you could prove that, but he still did it.
    2. I doubt that anyone would have celebrated Passover without killing, and eating, a Passover lamb - it was what they were commanded to do, and as lamb was not unclean meat, they would not have had a problem eating it.
    3. I don't understand why you keep talking about honeycomb.
    4. Animal abuse is a whole new issue, which is not covered by Scripture, nor the subject of this thread.
    5. The bottom line is that if you believe Scripture teaches adopting a vegan diet, then that's what you must do. I don't believe Scripture says any such thing, so I don't; and my answer to the OP is, "no, Scripture does not teach this."

    People have talked about the need to be healthy and look after our bodies - agreed. But many nutritionists would say that there is nothing wrong with chicken, oily fish or red meat, in moderation. These are a good source of protein and other nutrients. And, personally, if I was forbidden from eating these things, I would have a very unhealthy diet; I don't eat nuts, pulses make me feel sick and I wouldn't survive very long on the few vegetables that I do eat. I don't have the best diet in the world; agreed - but after over 50 years, I'm not about to change any time soon.

    And I think it IS wrong to take the verse from 1 Corinthians about the body being a temple for the Holy Spirit and using it as proof that Scripture teaches a particular diet.
     
  17. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    1. There is insistence on this point with disregarding what I showed. Since there is repetition of this, I say more about it below.
    2. Passover was in memorial to people of Israel being passed over with blood from a lamb on their doorpost, the meat was to be roasted, any of it remaining the next day was to be burned. So they had meat to eat for that day, but this which was told them did not require all to be eating meat, most chose to eat meat anyway, but one who chose not to wouldn't, in the way Daniel chose not to. This particular thing doesn't prove what Jesus did. Scripture passages conspicuously don't speak of meat at his last supper, the symbolic food that alone is mentioned is the bread and the wine, and bread and wine should still be used in remembrance.
    3. You don't understand because you won't consider the scripture passages that I linked to, and look such up that you suggested you would. After asking if they had food there, Luke 24:42-43, so they gave him a piece of broiled fish and some honeycomb, he took and ate in their presence. That is the scripture, you can look into it. Does it mean he just ate fish? Why not that he just ate from the honeycomb? You can't tell. It doesn't seem likely that he ate both together, who would? You can guess he ate fish, but it just that guess. From what I know from scriptures and what is shown of Jesus, I very much suspect that he didn't have that.
    4. This point really shows the passages I linked to aren't even looked at.
    5. I speak for myself and don't answer for the OP. What I have said does have basis from scriptures, and what you use for your permission still is with you disregarding what is really said for you, and what you don't have permission in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  18. Strong in Him

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    I may answer your post more fully tomorrow, but briefly; I have looked up Luke 24:42-43 in several versions, including my interlinear Greek Bible, and only the King James and NKJ say anything about honeycomb.
    So if this isn't even in the Greek, where does it come from?
     
  19. mmksparbud

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    The first mention of milk I can find in the bible is this

    Gen_18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

    This is what Abraham gave to the 3 "men"---2 angels and God. And they ate milk and butter and the calf with the bread Sarah had made. Throughout the middle east cheese was quite heavily consumed in the form of soft cheeses like cream cheeses, and yogurt---but they were made from milk that comes mostly from sheep and goats, with some from cows. And we must remember, these animals were not raised on antibiotics and hormones and grain fed---they were "free range"---Today, dairy and meat (mostly sheep, goats and cows) consumption is very high with dairy getting higher by at least 6% every year. Vegetables are not high on the list of consumption---it is hard to grow them in the dessert. Meat and dairy are the main food with fruits being what is indigenous to the country. Everything else is imported.

    This is from 2006:
    Jordanians had the lowest overall incidence of cancer, while the United States SEER population and Israeli Jews had substantially higher overall cancer incidence rates than in the other MECC populations. Cypriots, Israeli Arabs, and Egyptians had intermediate cancer incidence rates.
    • While overall lung cancer incidence was much lower in the MECC populations than in the U.S. SEER population, the rates were comparable to U.S. SEER rates in Israeli Arab men younger than 60, who are known to have high tobacco consumption.
    • Israeli Jews had colorectal cancer rates higher than the U.S. SEER population and more than twice as high as the other MECC populations. This finding calls for further investigation of genetic and dietary/environmental factors among these populations.
    • Liver cancer incidence rates in Egyptians were five to seven times as high as those of the other MECC populations, and more than three times the U.S. SEER population. This may be related to the higher prevalence of hepatitis B and C in the population or to contamination of food by aflatoxin, a toxin produced by many species of fungi.
    • Egyptians and Israeli Jews had rates of non-Hodgkin lymphoma higher than in the U.S. SEER population and considerably higher than in the other MECC populations. Further studies of risk factors for this malignancy are needed in this region of the world.
    • Breast cancer incidence was high in Israeli Jews, comparable to the U.S. population. The other MECC countries had much lower rates. The rates of breast cancer among women under 55 years of age were higher in Israeli Jews than in the U.S. population, which may be related to the genetic mutations in the BRCA genes known to be more prevalent among Ashkenazi women.
    • The incidence of esophageal cancer in the MECC countries was among the lowest in the world, which may be related to the relatively low consumption of alcohol in the region. This finding calls for further study, as there is a high prevalence of smoking in most MECC countries, which tends to increase esophageal cancer rates.
    • Childhood cancer (under 15 years) was higher overall in the Cyprus population than in the U.S. SEER population and the other MECC populations. The Cypriots reported high rates of childhood leukemia and central nervous system malignancies, while the incidence of childhood lymphoma was particularly high among Egyptians, compared with the other MECC populations.
    • Rates of urinary bladder cancer were very high among Egyptians and Israeli Jews, higher than the U.S. SEER population. Egypt’s high rate may be partly explained by previously high rates of schistosomiasis, a parasitic disease caused by infection with schistosome blood flukes that damage the bladder, which is a known risk factor for urinary bladder squamous cell carcinoma.NCI Releases Report on Cancer Incidence in Middle East
    Yes, high meat and dairy are biblical---go ahead and have a middle eastern diet---but be prepared to pay the price.
     
  20. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +2,648
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others
    Oh, and I did have more or less a middle eastern diet----my husband is not SDA and so I just stuck to the "clean meats" and fish---I was also heavily addicted to dairy. I had cheese just about every day and sometimes several times a day----On Tues. at 6 am I am scheduled for colon cancer surgery.
     
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