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When was the year of the Cross?


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keras

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Have you ever built a house? You start with the foundations - not after the foundations! sheesh! :doh:
I have actually built about 20 houses. Asking such a question is irrelevant.

We cannot prove when the 46 years started; that Herod took to build the 2nd Temple.
I contend that it was in early 19 BC, within Herod's 18th year.
And what’s this “plus 2” nonsense when counting from BC to AD? Every historian counts 1 year. JGR gave you the link and you totally ignored it.
I have studied this issue of the BC/AD break very carefully. There is plenty of opinion out there, mostly quite confusing and none seem to get it right. Adding one does not account for the fact that the years are numbered from their commencement; both ways.
Keep in mind that this issue only arises when we try to calculate a given time period over this break.

I am aware of your stake in this, as your 490 year timeline, a very well presented and elegant work, is thrown into error with a 29 AD date for Jesus baptism.
Both you and jgr avoid any discussion on my timeline posted on this thread; #26. Why?
 
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Christian Gedge

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We can also work out the year of the cross if we date the conversion of St. Paul on the Damascus road. This was late AD 32, which is of course, before the late date crucifixion theory of AD 33. It is another reason why I conclude the crucifixion had to be AD 30 just like all the other evidence shows.

The time of Paul’s conversion is calculated from his account to the Galatians and by cross-referencing it to the record in Acts. Paul relates:

"When it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace ... I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days ... Afterward I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia and I was unknown by face to the churches of Judea which were in Christ ... Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me." (Galatians 1:15 - 2:1)

Thus AD 32 plus three plus fourteen equals AD 49, which is another known anchor date. In this year, AD 49, St. Paul took part in the great Jerusalem Council as recorded in Acts 15. Therefore, his conversion is pinpointed and likewise the cross is nailed. There is a consistent pattern of evidence that our Lord was crucified on Passover, April 7th AD 30.
 
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keras

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Galatians 1:17 does not refer to Pauls conversion.
It says he returned to Damascus; in another visit to there.

I reject any attempt to place Jesus baptism at any time other than 29.5 AD.
There is no doubt that God does set exact time periods for the pivotal events of human history. It was exactly 2000 years from Adam until Abraham departed from Ur, in response the God's command. In our calendar year - 1970.5 BC
Then exactly 2000 years later; Jesus commenced His earthly Ministry. In 29.5 AD

We look for His glorious Return in exactly 2000 years from then.
He will reign as King over the world for the final 1000 years, which will be the Sabbath "Day' for God's Creation.
 
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jgr

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586 BCE + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5 AD, the date of Jesus’ baptism. Luke 3:1 Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.

Our system names years by their commencements, but counts years by their durations.

2BC-----1BC-----AD1-----AD2

Thus the duration from any point commencing at the year named 1BC (but ending before the year named AD1), to the same point commencing at the year named AD1 (but ending before the year named AD2), is one year, not two.
 
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keras

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Our system names years by their commencements, but counts years by their durations.

2BC-----1BC-----AD1-----AD2

Thus the duration from any point commencing at the year named 1BC (but ending before the year named AD1), to the same point commencing at the year named AD1 (but ending before the year named AD2), is one year, not two.
This reply is the same as what many so called experts say on this BC/AD issue. They are so dense, it makes your head spin.

I'll try again: When Dionysus wrote the Gregorian calendar, his start point was BC1 and AD1. Therefore; at BC2 and AD2; ONLY 2 YEARS HAD PASSED, NOT 4.
This system is what we have now, proved by how the world celebrated 2000 years, when only 1999 had elapsed.
So, any attempt to fit a known time period from a known BC date, must have 2 added, in order to cover the total elapsed years.

I am used to people disbelieving what I post, so your opposition is normal. The ancient Israelites disbelieved the prophets then, so my promoting of their Words gets the same treatment.
But I am curious; Why do you object to the 29.5 AD date?
 
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jgr

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Dionysus wrote the Gregorian calendar, his start point was BC1 and AD1

That is an inherent self-contradiction; how can a single "start point" be two start points?

Provide a quote from an authoritative source which claims that "his start point was BC1 and AD1".
 
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keras

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That is an inherent self-contradiction; how can a single "start point" be two start points?
BC goes backward and AD goes forward; from the one start point. That is 1 BC and 1 AD.
Provide a quote from an authoritative source which claims that "his start point was BC1 and AD1".
I don't need to. The fact that every year, either way, is counted at its commencement, proves the calendar started at the point designated as year one.

Aren't you just a tad embarrassed by how you look in your failed attempts to disprove me?
You still avoid my question- Why?
 
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keras

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I don't need to.
No; it is you and CG, who need to explain your beliefs in this issue.
Rejecting my explanations and making a joke of it, shows the lack of any proof for your stance.

Your tactics here are evident to all; but without anyone else participating here; it is best for me, you and CG, to now leave it and time will decide who is right.
 
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Christian Gedge

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OK. I'll just close off with evidence from early church historian, Eusebius, bishop of Caesarea. He mentions the destruction of the temple in AD 70 happened forty years after Christ’s death. So, AD 70 minus 40 years = AD 30. This may be found in 'Works of Eusebius', Book 3, Chapter 7.

To anyone wishing to see my full chronology from Jacob to Christ, please get my book, 'The Atonement Clock.'

Thanks for sharing in this Easter poll.
 
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mkgal1

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This thread is over a year old? I missed it a year ago.......but thanks, @Christian Gedge for pointing me towards it.

Definitely time/dates matter or else God's messengers wouldn't have been given timelines (like Gabriel gave to Daniel).

Futurists will use this line to argue against timelines revealed in the Bible and to suggest our ways of keeping time mean nothing to God (and I completely disagree with that argument):

"A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day"​
 
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mkgal1

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OK. I'll just close off with evidence from early church historian, Eusebius, bishop of Caesarea. He mentions the destruction of the temple in AD 70 happened forty years after Christ’s death. So, AD 70 minus 40 years = AD 30. This may be found in 'Works of Eusebius', Book 3, Chapter 7.

To anyone wishing to see my full chronology from Jacob to Christ, please get my book, 'The Atonement Clock.'

Thanks for sharing in this Easter poll.
You're probably the best person to ask: did King David die 960 years prior to the Cross? I heard someone say that the other day and that the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD would complete the 1000 year reign of King David and then Jesus took that throne as Son of David. That was their explanation of the 1000 year reign that's mentioned.
 
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sovereigngrace

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This thread is over a year old? I missed it a year ago.......but thanks, @Christian Gedge for pointing me towards it.

Definitely time/dates matter or else God's messengers wouldn't have been given timelines (like Gabriel gave to Daniel).

Futurists will use this line to argue against timelines revealed in the Bible and to suggest our ways of keeping time mean nothing to God (and I completely disagree with that argument):

"A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day"​

Not just Futurists. Idealists and many Historists also see the promises of Christ’s return as being given from an eternal perspective.
 
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Timtofly

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So 30 AD would put his birth in 4 BC.
... and it's really the year 2023?
No. Jesus does not have to be born at 0. Does Jesus have to be 30 or 33.5 years old at the Cross? Was Adam 30 when he disobeyed God? Was Jesus 30 when He was baptized, in obedience to God?
 
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Timtofly

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Dionysius Exigius (aka Dennis the Short), a monk from Russia who died about 544, was asked by Pope John I to set out the dates for Easter from the years 527 to 626. It seems that the Pope was keen to produce some order in the celebration of Easter. Dionysius decided to begin with what he considered to be the year of Jesus' birth. He chose the year in which Rome had been founded and determined, from the evidence known to him, that Jesus had been born 753 years later. He did have an error in that because one emperor changed his name during his reign, Dionysius counted him twice.


He was almost certainly acquainted with a suggestion by Hippolytus (170–236) that the date of Jesus' birth was December 25, but the trouble was that Hippolytus had not backed up this claim with sound arguments. Dionysius, however, had just the argument: His contemporaries claimed that God created the earth on March 25. It was inconceivable that the son of God could have been in any way imperfect. Therefore Jesus must have been conceived on March 25. This meant that he must have been born nine months later—December 25. Dionysius also concluded that, as a perfect being, Jesus could not have lived an incomplete life so he must have died on March 25 as well!


December 25 was an auspicious choice. In 274, in Rome, the Emperor Aurelian declared December 25 a civic holiday in celebration of the birth of Mithras, the sun god. By 336, in that same city, Christians countered by celebrating the birth of Jesus, the son of God, on December 25. Christians in Antioch in 375 celebrated the birth of Jesus on January 6. Christians in Alexandria did not begin to celebrate Christmas at all until 430. So until Dionysius came along there was confusion over dates, and debates raged, even over the usefulness of celebrating the birth of Jesus at all. What had been universally important for all Christians—the pre-eminent event—was the celebration of Easter.


When, in 527, he formalized the date of Jesus' birth, Dionysius put Christmas on the map. Jesus was born, he declared, on December 25 in the Roman year 753. Dionysius then suspended time for a few days, declaring January 1, 754—New Year's day in Rome—as the first year in a new era of world history.


With a stroke of ingenuity Dionysius had managed to shift the attention of the church from Easter to Christmas. From this point in time it seemed only logical to celebrate the birth of Jesus before his death. If Jesus' death by crucifixion had made possible salvation for all people everywhere, so the argument went, then his birth was the sign that God was identifying with human kind by taking human form.


But Dionysius made a mistake in his calculations. Perhaps he had never read the gospel account of the birth of Jesus. In Matthew Jesus is said to have been born while Herod was still King (2:1). That would translate into 4 BC (or even earlier) according to the calculations of Dionysius. As a consequence, for Christians the year 2000 is not two thousand years after the birth of Jesus, but more like 2004.


That was not his only mistake. Dionysius followed the convention of his times and, as the Roman calendar moved from the year 753 to 754, he called the latter "year one" of the New World order—anno domini, the year of our Lord. The concept of naught (zero) didn't come into Europe from Arabia and India until about two hundred years later. As a result, centuries end with naught and begin with the digit one. So for us the year 2000 was the end of one millennium but it was not the beginning of the next: that occurred in 2001.


Later, when Pope Gregory tidied up the calendar on 24 February 1582, the calendar lost eleven days. To synchronise the calendar of Dionysius with the movement of the sun, October 4 became October 15, and to avoid having to make further adjustments a leap year was introduced. Pope Gregory must also have known of the mistakes made by Dionysius but all he did was to confirm them, perhaps hoping that no one would notice.


There is one other problem. Bishop Ussher (1581–1656) worked out the precise year of creation as 4004 BC (he knew about Dionysisus getting the date of Jesus birth wrong). But he also advanced the view that the earth had a total life span of six thousand years. In order to come up with this conclusion he based his calculations on all the generations mentioned in the Bible.


In reality we do not know when Jesus was born—neither the year, the month, nor the day. The chronology of our western calendar is based on mythology masquerading as theology. We do well to treat it all with the humour it deserves.
Bishop Usshur did not include the first Lord's Day of Genesis 2 that Moses and the children of Israel were supposed to Remember. Adam was in the Garden for 30 years after he was already on earth for 1000 years. Seth was born 100 years after the fall. The reason being is the curse in Isaiah 65. Puberty was around 100 based on the 1000 year life spans. As sin became more pronounced they had children at a younger age. God would also shorten the time span of life to only 120 years.

God lifted the curse on Adam after 100 years and blessed them with a son in Adam's image, no longer were humans born in the image of God from Adam and Eve. Cain and Abel were born before Adam disobeyed God during the 30 years in the Garden. Adam was placed in the Garden 4000 BC. Adam disobeyed God 3970 BC. So the Cross was 4000 years after sin entered the world. Sin will not be over until 2030. 2000 years after the Cross, 6000 years after the fall.


Why does the countdown start 10.5 years early? Do we even need the last 3.5 years? If Satan gets 3.5 years, that is added to the final 7 years so many think has to happen. Satan does not get the last 3.5 years. The same seems to happen at the first coming. Jesus was 3.5 years early despite all the mix up of time and calendars. Yet Jesus only had a 3.5 year ministry, not 7 years. The 14th of Nissan was on a Wednesday in 30AD. The only year we can get 3.5 days which is evening to the next evening as 1 day. He was 3 evenings and 3 mornings in the tomb. Not 2 evenings and 1 morning making 1.5 day. The 2 witnesses will lay dead for exactly 3.5 days as well. Thursday to early Sunday morning. Another week, the week of the 7th Trumpet cut in half. The 3.5 year ministry of Jesus Christ also cut in half. The rest of the 3.5 years should begin in Oct. of 2019 to April of 2023 when the 14th of Nissan is once again on a Wednesday. This is 10.5 years from April of 2030. The Millennium will be 3.5 years early, 2000 years from the baptism of Jesus Christ. It may be 7 years early if Satan does not get his 3.5 years and the week of the 7th Trumpet is not cut in half. Daniel 9:27 prophecies a week is cut in half by the Desolation of a Temple. Was that only Antiochus Epiphanies? John witnessed the worse case scenario, but it has not happened yet for us.

If the church today, repents, humbles herself, and seeks God's face and turns from her wickedness, then God will hear and will heal all nations and the harvest will be golden. Otherwise God is soon going to show His face, and it will be the end of the church, ready or not.

Don't take my word about seeking God's face if you disagree with me. 2 Chronicles 7:14

14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

We are to seek the face of the One sitting on the throne. Revelation 6:16, is too late to seek God's face.

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

Time is not getting any longer, but shorter. We are to be praying to see His face not hide from God's face.

Can God extend punishment? Does the church want God to extend punishment? Seems like that is what all are preparing for these days to endure and keep on enduring so we can enjoy sin that much longer in the flesh.
 
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Timtofly

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Whatever you do, do not read about the fall of Jerusalem and what happened in those weeks and months surrounding it. Will Blow your Theory out of the water as well as it being the most horrible account of Events that happened to any people anywhere or time in human history.
I have read Josephus, and it is not earth shattering. Anything else other than his eye witness account is just fictional drama. Josephus was writing for the Romans, and they were brutal no doubt. Even the rebel Jews were killing themselves, which is very brutal. There have been worse wars since then. No one detonated a nuclear bomb on Jerusalem in 70AD. Should we be looking for that now to show up as historical fact? You know something that is worse than surviving that kind of torment of the body?
 
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mkgal1

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Not just Futurists. Idealists and many Historists also see the promises of Christ’s return as being given from an eternal perspective.
Ray Vander Laan identifies as a historicist.....and I've learned a lot from his timelines. That doesn't dismiss the eternal aspect of many of God's promises.
 
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Timtofly

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I have actually built about 20 houses. Asking such a question is irrelevant.

We cannot prove when the 46 years started; that Herod took to build the 2nd Temple.
I contend that it was in early 19 BC, within Herod's 18th year.

I have studied this issue of the BC/AD break very carefully. There is plenty of opinion out there, mostly quite confusing and none seem to get it right. Adding one does not account for the fact that the years are numbered from their commencement; both ways.
Keep in mind that this issue only arises when we try to calculate a given time period over this break.

I am aware of your stake in this, as your 490 year timeline, a very well presented and elegant work, is thrown into error with a 29 AD date for Jesus baptism.
Both you and jgr avoid any discussion on my timeline posted on this thread; #26. Why?
The Bible does not give any dates based on BC. Why are you adding those years in to adjust for the Bible? That is only if you adjust for a BC date. Are you saying we should add 2 years to Jesus' age so instead of being born in 4 BC it should be 6 BC? The 14th of Nisan only falls on certain days in a 7 year period. The only time it falls on Wednesday is in 30AD. The only time it falls on Friday is 33AD. One year it falls on a Saturday, the rest of the years it lands on Mondays. That is the only reason why some pick 33AD and call it good Friday. It was in 30AD on a Good Wednesday. 34AD was a Saturday. Any other year and it would have been on a Monday. The 15th of Nisan was never on a Friday ever, during those years. It was either Saturday, Sunday, or Tuesday, except 30AD. That year it was on a Thursday. So the preparation for Passover that year was on Wednesday. Then the high Sabbath on Thursday. Then a day of preparation Friday for the weekly Sabbath. They had to have the body buried before 6pm Wednesday evening (by start of Thursday). It was in the tomb Thursday evening and morning. Friday evening and morning. Saturday evening and morning, 3 days. Sunday morning 6am was the half day, evening. Putting the body in the tomb by 6pm Saturday evening, was only 36 hours, evening and morning of Saturday, and 12 hours on Sunday. 24 + 12 = 36 hours, and is not 3.5 days. 3.5 days is 3 × 24 = 72 + 12 = 84 hours.

In Egypt, the lamb was slain on the 14th, so the blood would be applied the whole 15th of the Passover.

Also on Friday, the Jews remembered about the 3.5 day prophecy and had Pilate seal the tomb on Friday. They did not have the tomb sealed on Sunday. That would have been too late. They did nothing on Thursday. They did nothing on Saturday. What was done was on Wednesday and Friday. Wednesday was the crucifixion, and on Friday the tomb was sealed.
 
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