Earth

[JohnR7]

of course it could have been created 6k years ago, and merely made to look like it is 13.7 billion years old, but then it could have been created yesterday too, or five minutes ago, or a nanosecond ago, you just can't tell.

That does not address the issue at all. Something happened 6000 years ago. 6000 years ago is the beginning of written language. That is to say 6000 years ago, recorded history began. I would say that this makes the story of Adam and Eve pretty important.

Or, I suppose that there are people who would claim that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth. But that still makes the story very significant, for two reasons, one it is the first recorded story. Second, even if it is a myth, myths always are a metaphor and have an explaination.

The data is there and can not be refuted. If you do not like our explaination, then perhaps you would like to offer to us your explaination to explain the data or the evidence. Just what do you feel the story of Adam and Eve is evidence of?

 

[JohnR7]

you know a few hundred years ago, people probably thought really silly things like "things fall because God pushes them down" and "the earth is flat because when you see a ship travel really far away it looks like it falls off the edge".

People "probably thought"? What probably? You can not give us the name of the book or the author where this information is recorded? Where did you get this information from?

 

[Siliconaut]

Just what is phyiscs? Does that have something to do with math?

Being nit-picky? Shouldn't that be one of the cardinal sins? I still don't see how your knowledge of physics (whew! Did it! ) could be called "existant".

@W4e:

PhantomLlama, its unbelievable on how mis-informed you are on "so called" religion. And i've never said "creationISM with christianity" or vis vera. I do believe science lets to an intelligent design though, no matter what my "religion" is. And no i feel threatened by this idea, of course not, but i dont see how much discuss can come out of it, but sure, lets discuss it. And how do you know am a christian, why, b.c i believe in creation, lol, its not good to assume my friends

Uhmm... since I am pretty sure this post was a direct reply to mine a page earlier, I'll take it: If you choose to pretend now that you are not a christian, aren't you denying Jesus like Paul did? I do hope you're not playing the hide-and-seek game now...

I am not assuming you are a christian due to your position on creationISM, but because you tell us again and again that you are a christian. I wonder how this is compatible with creationISM, because you make it sound like the already done-and-over-with debunking of creationISM (not creation, mind) interferes with christian belief, which - IMO - it doesn't.

Science, as has been explained and shown repeatedly, does *not* show creationISM is even an option to explain the data, but is instead a closed-minded philosophy of wishful thinking, that ignores evidence in favor of upholding losing positions. Christianity should not want anything to do with these heretics.

Also, your argument "there's creationist that are non religious and vis vera" is bunk - how could a CREATIONIST not be religious?! *gg*

 

[worship4ever]

JohnR7, i do think its important, but way to many people on here think creationist=6000 years. Alot of the points that evolutionist claim is that creationism is impossible b.c the earth isnt 6000 years old. This young/old earth debate is between ourselfs, yet, we all know where we're going when we die reguardless of how much science we think we know. It's a humble thought.

 

[Arikay]

Nope. Its an argument for science as they are using bad facts to pretend the earth is 6000 years old.

Besides, many YEC groups believe that the key to disproving evolution is to show that the earth is 6000 years old, since they believe evolution would break down if it was ever proven. So by showing the earth isnt 6000 years old, it is defending evolution. Also many of the YECs creationist arguments revolve around a Young Earth.

Some evolutionists still 'LOVE GOD" too. You are forgeting that many theistic evolutionists see evolution as Creation.

arikay, if you problem is with young earth creationist, take it up with them. Young/old earth is an argument for CREATION. In evolution its already what, 4.5 billion years, right. The young/old earth debate is for creationist, it has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution gives an age to the earth and life itself. Creationist may debate this young/old earth issue but they all still LOVE GOD.

 

[worship4ever]

Sili, im not denying Christ at all, i dont feel how it is necessary to know in this argument. I believe Jesus is Lord, died on the cross, and rose again on the 3rd day to forgive all, if that makes me a so-call "christian" then fine.

 

[Siliconaut]

That does not address the issue at all. Something happened 6000 years ago. 6000 years ago is the beginning of written language. That is to say 6000 years ago, recorded history began. I would say that this makes the story of Adam and Eve pretty important.

Or, I suppose that there are people who would claim that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth. But that still makes the story very significant, for two reasons, one it is the first recorded story. Second, even if it is a myth, myths always are a metaphor and have an explaination.

The data is there and can not be refuted. If you do not like our explaination, then perhaps you would like to offer to us your explaination to explain the data or the evidence. Just what do you feel the story of Adam and Eve is evidence of?

John, you are spreading falsehoods again. The "written history" of mankind began - depending on interpretation - either 31,000 years ago with cave paintings or, when you only take written letters as proof of language, 8000 years ago in Mesopotamia. There is no way you can dismiss or ignore the 2000 years until the assumed Adam-and-Eve myth took place. And yes, metaphors have meaning, but so do faery tales.

To quote you, "The data ist there" and has yet to be refuted - "6000 years" has suffered a smashing defeat no matter what ad-hoc explanations you try to come up with.

 

[worship4ever]

Arikay, yes, evolutionist still say "I love God", thats awesome. Anyone can love God and have a relationship with Him. My argument is that God said He created male and female on the 6th day, that doesnt say evolution. Your belief in science doesnt stop anyone from having a relationship with God.

 

[Siliconaut]

Sili, im not denying Christ at all, i dont feel how it is necessary to know in this argument. I believe Jesus is Lord, died on the cross, and rose again on the 3rd day to forgive all, if that makes me a so-call "christian" then fine.

Yep, that makes you a so-called "christian". Care trying to win by changing definitions?

Oh, and of course it's irrelevant to the scientific facts that show us why creationISM is falsified, but it IS relevant when it comes to finding out just why you think you need to hold on to a debunked theory instead of accepting that christianity doesn't need ballast like creationISM. Creation istself is wonderfully compatible with evolution, you know?

 

[worship4ever]

definition of what dude. Please explain. Religion is NOTHING at death. If you call me a christian b.c i believe in Jesus then do so. But i better have a relationship with Jesus when i die, reguadless of religion.

 

[Jet Black]

Arikay, yes, evolutionist still say "I love God", thats awesome. Anyone can love God and have a relationship with Him. My argument is that God said He created male and female on the 6th day, that doesnt say evolution. Your belief in science doesnt stop anyone from having a relationship with God.

ok, you explain all the transitional fossils. you explain mitochondrial DNA, you explain why there are entirely different enzymes in different animals that do exactly the same job, you explain why we share so much DNA with chimps, you explain the cosmic microwave background, you explain the geological record, because if what you are saying is true, then you have got me stumped. Why didn't God make it blatantly obvious that the earth is 6000 years old and made in 6 days? is it all just a big cosmic trick to ensure that a disproportionate number of scientists go to measure the thermodynamic properties of hell?

 

[Siliconaut]

@w4e:

definition of what dude. Please explain. Religion is NOTHING at death. If you call me a christian b.c i believe in Jesus then do so. But i better have a relationship with Jesus when i die, reguadless of religion.

It is no import at all - let's just call you a Jesus-believer if it makes you feel better and gives us a common ground to discuss on. Why do you, as a Jesus-believer, feel the urge to defend a debunked theory that flies in the face of god's creation?

 

[worship4ever]

Jet black, lol. I believe all your questions have already been discuss in other threads. As for proving those threads wrong, i dont remember, but science always finds flaws in them. As for, why didnt God make it blatantly obvious that the earth is 6000 years old? I have no idea, i dont enough wanna know what goes thur the Boss's mind, it's not my place to ask, i'll find the answer sooner or later. Personally i dont think God thought it was a big deal, and it really isnt. If you understand the concept of salavation, science isnt that important, lol. Eternity is a LONG time, i hope your right, and if i'm wrong, and theres nothing after death, well, it was still a great JOY to feel this presence called God, i win either way. But if your wrong, bummer.

 

[Arikay]

So even though science has falsified all your holes in evolution. You think you will still be proven right with science?

 

[worship4ever]

I'm sorry arikay, its 2:00 in alaska, im kinda tired, i didnt understand that question, can you rephrase it please?

 

[Arikay]

Only 2 am?

Do you think that science will eventually prove evolution wrong, even though it has falsified your holes in evolution?

I'm sorry arikay, its 2:00 in alaska, im kinda tired, i didnt understand that question, can you rephrase it please?

 

[Siliconaut]

@w4e:

I have no idea, i dont enough wanna know what goes thur the Boss's mind, it's not my place to ask, i'll find the answer sooner or later. Personally i dont think God thought it was a big deal, and it really isnt.

Yes, finding out how god's creation works should be of utmost import, since we have to live in it. Our children and grand-children will have to live with it, so don't believe it matters nothing.

If you do, you may just as well stop eating in order to join your deity more quickly, because then, you propose that our life has no purpose at all.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Jet black, lol. I believe all your questions have already been discuss in other threads. As for proving those threads wrong, i dont remember, but science always finds flaws in them. As for, why didnt God make it blatantly obvious that the earth is 6000 years old? I have no idea, i dont enough wanna know what goes thur the Boss's mind, it's not my place to ask, i'll find the answer sooner or later

Worship4ever,

Maybe you should change your handle to Denyreality4ever. At least you should stop lol'ing about threads that have totally demolished YEC. It seems a bit like a scared child whistling in the dark.

Christian scientists abandoned YEC more than 150 years ago when they found that their observations of the earth showed that the earth was at least millions of years old and that there had never been a global flood. What has been shown here on thread after thread is that there a facts about the world that YECs simply can't explain and that can in no way be fit to the YEC world view.

There is the fossil record
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=42599

I didn't see that you or any other YEC had anything to say in the thread on transistional fossils

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=43227

why would a worldwide flood bury fossils in sequences that look like transitions predicted by evolution?

many observations from geology falsifiy the young earth/worldwide flood

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=41209&page=1
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=36270&page=1

and biogeography falsifies the worldwide flood

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=40474&page=1

Just to name a few falsifications of the YEC worldview that have been presented here and not answered by YECs.

If the earth is only 6000-10,000 years old and a signficant portion of the world's geology and fossil record are the result of a global flood then God is a great trickster and created a world with massive evidence for great age and massive evidence against the worldwide flood he allegedly caused. I suppose you could say that killing off all but a tiny fraction of the world was such a horrible crime that God wanted to cover it up, but that was the case why leave a written record?

The Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[JohnR7]

when you only take written letters as proof of language, 8000 years ago in Mesopotamia. There is no way you can dismiss or ignore the 2000 years until the assumed Adam-and-Eve myth took place. And yes, metaphors have meaning, but so do faery tales.

Present your evidence please for your 8000 year old Mesopotamia "written letters".

 

[goat37]

This is in reference to the first post, since I don't have the time or patience to read all 100+ posts..


worship4ever, you said something about the chances of things being the way they are on earth, nearly impossible. Let's focus on that, nearly impossible... would you say.... oh, i don't know... 1 in a few hundred billion? because that is EXACTLY what happened, if it was 1 in 10, we'd see a helluva lot more life out there. So the statistic was right.

BUT

We are now studying where the water was on mars, and there is a good possibility we will find hints of life that may have lived there. (not little green men, but life, organisms like amoeba or even single celled organisms)

It's people like you that are detrimental to the advancement of society. You blame everything you don't know on God, and hide from the truth because your are either too lazy or ignorant to actually search for it. If people like your ruled the world, we would still think the earth was flat, and the sun revolved around the earth. Get over yourself, get over your convictions, and open your mind. But I can tell that you have no hope of ever doing that.