Earth is Flat

[faroukfarouk]

Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth"

Noteworthy verse there, indeed...

 

[Joy]

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[Shrewd Manager]

My Navigation teacher in Ships Class always used Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth" to prove that the earth is round,

Hello, no the word there means round, could be like a pizza not like a ball. Isaiah uses the word for ball - a different Hebrew word - a little earlier on:
He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country. (Isa 22:18)

So you can convey to your old teacher that at most Isa 40:22 is ambiguous on the point. And that's it, the best and only scriptural shot in support of the wacky spinning waterball in space.

And since you cannot "sail over the edge" with your ship, that makes plenty sense?

Sailing off the edge means you have to go there first. There seem to be an awful lack of polar circumnavigations, and the few that are claimed are unverifiable and questionable. Still, be nice if someone could find earth's curvature, by any physical or optical experiment. Many have tried. No curve, no globe.

Also how on "earth" would a cow patty suspended in the Universe not totally get blown abouts?

That's funny, but the Bible describes a flat earth enclosed by a firmament or dome, a big snowglobe. You don't have to like it, it's only the word of God after all.

Don't we need the center of gravity (oh another point I guess) and all that.

Gravity eh. I'd have thought gravity would work better on a flat surface when stuff falls down in the same direction. Unless we're talking Einsteinian gravity, the bending of space-time. You're a true believer, space-time wow?

And what of the oceans, as the sea-bed is spinning underneath at 1,000mph? Is the water velcroed to the ground, or the air we breathe - by what physical process does it move at the same rate as the earth, and translate that motion to the air particles above it? See, things are interconnected.

Everything is in such delicate balance - why would all planets be beautiful orbs and we would be a Pancake?

Why are lights in your kitchen round but the table is flat? These are imponderables.

So many amazing ancient scientists have figured this out so long ago, with scientific proof that I find it baffling that there is still ANY debate on this.

It's strange, because every flat earther begins by saying this, including engineers, pilots, physicists, astronomers, surveyors, navigators, long distance ballistics operators, and just everyday ppl like you and me.

So it's good to go in with all these objections, but don't let them prevent you from actually trying to disprove the science.

Plus all the pictures we have of earth and all that stuff...

I have pictures of Santa Claus. And real estate on the moon for sale.

Y'all the devil is a liar but even he isn't that powerful. I mean he will lie to you personally but he can't make anything different from what God established in the beginning of time

Well, the Bible does teach that the devil runs the world. Many think this means he spends his time writing Democrat party speeches and by-lines for smut sites. But maybe his project is a little more subtle and advanced, and he's oh so happy when ppl underestimate his influence. Worth considering?

 

[solid_core]

Au contraire, God is true, scientism is tribal.

No. Science is verifiable and the Old Tesetament was written by ancient tribe with mythological ideas about the universe which you accept as scientific and true.

You are confused about inspiration.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

No. Science is verifiable and the Old Tesetament was written by ancient tribe with mythological ideas about the universe which you accept as scientific and true.

You are confused about inspiration.

When you point the finger, how many are pointing back atcha?

First, it's spelled 'testament', and that means 'to testify' or 'to witness'. Like we have 'witnesses' in court, who give 'evidence'. For example 'opinion evidence' which is generally 'inadmissible' as evidence. Now, there's a limited exception in this area for experts who can present 'opinion'.

'Experts' such as Neil deGrasse Tyson, renowned physicist, who states, in reference to dark matter and dark energy, 'We're 95% stupid', conceding the cosmological model is almost totally unproven.

'Experts' such as Michiu Kaku, renowned theoretical physicist, who tells us that the gap between theory and observation in cosmology is 10^120, 'the largest mismatch ever'.

'Experts' such as Einstein, famous physicist, who along with many others, admits the motion of the earth cannot be detected. This is strange, given that it's allegedly moving in 4 directions simultaneously at a combined tempo of some 1 million mph. You'd think...well, this is just scratching the surface.

So what does all this 'testimony of expert conclave' add up to? A whole pile of donut, sir. Goose-egg plus nada times zip.

Thank you, but you can keep your myths, I'll stick with the faithful and true teachings of the HS as set forth in God's holy Bible.

 

[46AND2]

When you point the finger, how many are pointing back atcha?

First, it's spelled 'testament', and that means 'to testify' or 'to witness'. Like we have 'witnesses' in court, who give 'evidence'. For example 'opinion evidence' which is generally 'inadmissible' as evidence. Now, there's a limited exception in this area for experts who can present 'opinion'.

'Experts' such as Neil deGrasse Tyson, renowned physicist, who states, in reference to dark matter and dark energy, 'We're 95% stupid', conceding the cosmological model is almost totally unproven.

'Experts' such as Michiu Kaku, renowned theoretical physicist, who tells us that the gap between theory and observation in cosmology is 10^120, 'the largest mismatch ever'.

'Experts' such as Einstein, famous physicist, who along with many others, admits the motion of the earth cannot be detected. This is strange, given that it's allegedly moving in 4 directions simultaneously at a combined tempo of some 1 million mph. You'd think...well, this is just scratching the surface.

So what does all this 'testimony of expert conclave' add up to? A whole pile of donut, sir. Goose-egg plus nada times zip.

Thank you, but you can keep your myths, I'll stick with the faithful and true teachings of the HS as set forth in God's holy Bible.

A map, dude. FE can't even come up with a map that works.

 

[pitabread]

Flat earth believers are the ones that have been indoctrinated and sown lies. Fed untruths and unscientific information. They are extremely gullible and naive.

Ever watched the Flat Earth documentary "Behind the Curve"? It actually made out the Flat Earthers to be people that are looking for something to belong to. They just happened to find community in the FE fringe.

 

[pitabread]

A map, dude. FE can't even come up with a map that works.

Exactly.

If traditional cartography were as wrong as Flat Earthers say it is, then Flat Earthers would be sitting on a multi-billion dollar opportunity.

If only they could agree on a map.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Sailing off the edge means you have to go there first.

So you charter a boat with other flat earthers and set sail towards the periphery.

Who exactly do you think will come to stop you ?

Same guys who sabotaged Mad Mike’s rocket ?

 

[Kinable]

Hm My Navigation teacher in Ships Class always used Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth" to prove that the earth is round, And since you cannot "sail over the edge" with your ship, that makes plenty sense?

All the models of flat earth I have shown are both circles and round.

Circle ≠ Sphere

I wonder what you are trying to achieve with all these strange "theories"?
I don't remember being saved and then immediately jumping to all these hair splitting, weird conspiracies.

I actually became a flat earther before becoming Christian. Flat earth both strengthened my belief in Christianity being the truth and in turn increased my belief in Flat Earth.

 

[Strathos]

Here's the one big problem (well, one of the many big problems) with the whole 'Satanic conspiracy' argument:

There are over 2 billion Christians in the world today, and easily over 99% of them don't have any problem with accepting that the earth is round. Not a very effective 'conspiracy'.

If I was the leader of a global conspiracy with unlimited resources, and my mission was to convince people to abandon Christianity, my course of action would be obvious.

Step 1: Forge ancient Roman documents saying that Jesus was crucified and never resurrected. Write something about His followers claiming that He returned to life, but say it was all a lie.

Step 2: Create a fake tomb, matching the description in the NT. Place a body in there dating from the correct time, and place documents/records identifying it as Jesus Christ.

Step 3: Have archaeologists 'discover' the tomb, complete with the corpse of 'Jesus', and announce it to the world.

Step 4: Get all historians and experts worldwide to 'confirm' that it was the body of Jesus Christ.

No resurrection, no Christianity. Simple.

This would be trivially easy to do for an organization with the power and resources attributed by flat earthers to the 'round earth conspiracy'.

Yet apparently the 2500+ year old, omnipotent conspiracy has never even thought of this obvious idea. Go figure.

 

[renniks]

Kind of a sequel to my "Hell is not Eternal" thread I thought I'd tackle another major topic that Christians are divided on and that's the shape of the Earth. Flat Earth is biblical but after centuries of of indoctrination the majority of the world population including most Christians believe Earth is a spinning ball floating in space orbiting the Sun orbiting a black hole.

First of all, why lie?
If people knew what Earth really was then they would know that our existence isn't a coincidence and we have a creator. The Big Bang theory model of the universe makes earth and humanity seem insignificant and that there is a possibility of life on other "planets". Alien life means the bible is false and humans aren't special enough to be made in God's image because we evolved from apes. Think about it, why would God make all these other planets and suns with life and only focus on one? That's highly inefficient.

So what is Earth?
Earth is not a "planet", there's no such thing. They just added the letter "t" to the word plane which is what we are living on. Using the Hebrew model of the Earth shown below we can see a rough view of what we are living on.

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." - Genisis 1:2

The waters God saw are what we know as space or the 2nd Heaven. It is the area between Heaven (3rd Heaven, God's Domain) and the dry land which is Earth.

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day." - Genisis 1:6-8

The firmament is the indestructible dome God created that separates the 1st and 2nd heaven. It is what is preventing the waters God saw in the beginning from pouring over us, I'll explain later what the stars and planets are below.

"And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good." - Genisis 1:9-10

After God separated the first two heavens with the firmament, the dry land appeared which is what we are currently standing on. He left some water which is what we know as the ocean and the seas. This should give you a clear image of what Earth is now, you can see that it is not a "planet" but a flat plane that could span forever for all we know.

What are the stars and planets?

Stars are created in the waters above the firmament though a phenomenon called Sonoluminescence. To avoid making this thread bigger than it already is I'll just leave it at that. I'm still not entirely sure what planets like Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are so your guess is as good as mine.

What is the Sun and Moon?

The sun and moon hover and rotate above the earth and below the firmament and are the same size. The sun provides light during the day and the moon during the night. Both are required to create days as they revolve in a circle around earth. The moon is actually transparent and you can see stars through it if you look for them.

 

[renniks]

Please...Nooooo...

 

[Duke of Stratford]

If I can provide a somewhat different counterpoint: for myself and many other Christians, scientific discovery about the complexity of the universe actually strengthens our faith in God and the Bible. When we see the incredible vastness of the universe, of how deliberate, complex, and particular everything is, we see that there HAS to be an all-powerful Creator for any of this to exist. Our relative smallness in comparison to everything God created in space doesn't make us insignificant. In seeing how small we are compared to God's power of creation, His love for us becomes even more incredible!

If the idea that the earth is round is truly a Satanic lie, I don't see how it's effective at tearing people away from Christ. It doesn't change God's creative power, His love for us, or Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection. As previously stated, scientific discovery about earth, the universe, space, etc. often strengthen belief in God as sovereign Creator as opposed to weakening it. If a round earth is the devil's deception, it's far from his best work.

 

[Petros2015]

The moon is actually transparent and you can see stars through it if you look for them.

Just out of curiosity, how many stars have you seen looking through the moon?

 

[Kinable]

Just out of curiosity, how many stars have you seen looking through the moon?

I remember once as a kid seeing something like this except with less stars, I believe it was 2, one large one small. I found it strange seeing as how there shouldn't be stars there since the moon is supposed to be solid.

Another time in the day, probably around sunset I saw a star in the "shaded" area of the moon which I also found strange. I didn't think much of it but it made me question the moon landing. These two events fueled my curiosity of flat earth when I first got into it.

 

[Strathos]

If I can provide a somewhat different counterpoint: for myself and many other Christians, scientific discovery about the complexity of the universe actually strengthens our faith in God and the Bible. When we see the incredible vastness of the universe, of how deliberate, complex, and particular everything is, we see that there HAS to be an all-powerful Creator for any of this to exist. Our relative smallness in comparison to everything God created in space doesn't make us insignificant. In seeing how small we are compared to God's power of creation, His love for us becomes even more incredible!

If the idea that the earth is round is truly a Satanic lie, I don't see how it's effective at tearing people away from Christ. It doesn't change God's creative power, His love for us, or Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection. As previously stated, scientific discovery about earth, the universe, space, etc. often strengthen belief in God as sovereign Creator as opposed to weakening it. If a round earth is the devil's deception, it's far from his best work.

Exactly. No flat earther has ever even attempted to refute the argument I outlined in my previous post.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

I remember once as a kid seeing something like this except with less stars, I believe it was 2, one large one small. I found it strange seeing as how there shouldn't be stars there since the moon is supposed to be solid.

What did you do after you woke up ?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I remember once as a kid seeing something like this except with less stars, I believe it was 2, one large one small. I found it strange seeing as how there shouldn't be stars there since the moon is supposed to be solid.

Another time in the day, probably around sunset I saw a star in the "shaded" area of the moon which I also found strange. I didn't think much of it but it made me question the moon landing. These two events fueled my curiosity of flat earth when I first got into it.

Photos without any sources are of no use in a debate these days. Your daylight Moon photo could be just an odd unknown effect. A high flying plane might even be the source of the dot. It could be photo shop. It could be due to a bad sensor in the camera. There are all sorts of explanations which is why it is of no use.

What one needs is reliable repeatable data. Not a few cherry picked examples that cannot be done at will.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Want more proof that Globe Earth is a deception from Satan?

Globe Earth's tilt is 23.4°
90° - 23.4° = 66.6°



Globe Earth's Curvature Formula is 18in per mile squared
If 8in per mile squared then
1 mile = .666ft

Orbit speed = 18.5 mps (miles per second)
18.5mps = 66,600 mph

Don't believe me? Do the math. What are the odds? Are you sure God would create Earth with the mark of the beast all over? I think not.

A lot of your numbers are cherry picked or inaccurate. For example orbital speed varies a bit. Our orbit is not a perfect circle. Your formula for the curvature is only a rough approximation. And your number using that formula does not make any sense as written. Lastly switch to the metric system and all of your coincidences go away.