Earth is Flat

[Subduction Zone]

Oh my, you don't understand the importance of scale. Such a pity.

 

[Kinable]

Not from a flat earth website by the way, laws of physics still apply the same here regardless of scale.

 

[topher694]

Because your theoretical picture has curvature way more than 8 inches per mile squared. It is not even remotely the same scale as reality. Whoever created the image is deliberately falsifying his data.

Exactly, deceptive.

What I have observed about the "science" of FE (when actual science is invoked vs made-up catch phrases), is that one small sliver of a scientific principle is invoked as proof while other related ones are completely ignored... if this is pointed out it is usually ignored, subject changed, or intelligence of the challenger is questioned (ie meaningless, unrelated Simpsons memes).

In this case reflection is used as the "proof", but diffraction - a directly connected principle - is ignored. Along with amount of curvature, relative distances and a number of other directly connected scientific concepts.

All that, ironically, leads to fruit that is inconsistent with biblical ideals.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not from a flat earth website by the way, laws of physics still apply the same here regardless of scale.

Your picture does not match your illustration. That is a gross failure on your part. You have the observer thousands of miles in space in your illustration and yet you use a land based picture.

 

[Kinable]

Your picture does not match your illustration. That is a gross failure on your part. You have the observer thousands of miles in space in your illustration and yet you use a land based picture.

I edited in a video, is that height high enough for ya? Still the same line of light that is impossible on a curved surface aka globe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I edited in a video, is that height high enough for ya? Still the same line of light that is impossible on a curved surface aka globe.

You don't understand. Your proposed model does not match what you are trying to test. That is why your pictures fail. At very low angles, as in your pictures, waves make the surface uneven and even you admitted than an uneven surface reflects in all directions. You refuted yourself when you use your illustrations correctly. This is an example of not fully understanding the scientific method. You are just playing and failing badly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And one more point on the photographs that @Kinable wants for his experiment. If you look at what he expects to see from a spherical Earth model and what he actually sees there is a reason that you will never see that photograph. It would be an extremely bad photograph and any photographer would throw it away. You show the Sun directly reflecting off the ocean and into the lens of the camera. On the rare occasions when the ocean is flat enough to do that all that you would see in such a photo is Sun glare. There would be no details at all. Don't trust me? Try it with a mirror on the ground and shoot the Sun through the mirror. You will not see a thing besides glare.


Another reason that his "experiment" fails. You are depending upon saved photographs and any photographer that took a shot into the Sun, whether directly or indirectly through a reflection, would be thrown away. So not seeing what you demand is expected and the experiment fails for that reason.

 

[Freodin]

And I'm still waiting for an excuse on why objects of greater mass don't attract objects of smaller mass that isn't because "Earth is too big".

Do you really want to know, to understand? Not so that you are "forced" to agree... just so that you can understand... and thus be certain you get the correct thing to reject?

Please bear with me. Please do me the same courtesy that you demand we give you: following your arguments and conclusions.

It's only fair, isn't it?

How good is your knowledge of maths? Geometry? Especially vector maths?

 

[Qwertyui0p]

Kind of a sequel to my "Hell is not Eternal" thread I thought I'd tackle another major topic that Christians are divided on and that's the shape of the Earth. Flat Earth is biblical but after centuries of of indoctrination the majority of the world population including most Christians believe Earth is a spinning ball floating in space orbiting the Sun orbiting a black hole.

First of all, why lie?
If people knew what Earth really was then they would know that our existence isn't a coincidence and we have a creator. The Big Bang theory model of the universe makes earth and humanity seem insignificant and that there is a possibility of life on other "planets". Alien life means the bible is false and humans aren't special enough to be made in God's image because we evolved from apes. Think about it, why would God make all these other planets and suns with life and only focus on one? That's highly inefficient.

So what is Earth?
Earth is not a "planet", there's no such thing. They just added the letter "t" to the word plane which is what we are living on. Using the Hebrew model of the Earth shown below we can see a rough view of what we are living on.

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." - Genisis 1:2

The waters God saw are what we know as space or the 2nd Heaven. It is the area between Heaven (3rd Heaven, God's Domain) and the dry land which is Earth.

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day." - Genisis 1:6-8

The firmament is the indestructible dome God created that separates the 1st and 2nd heaven. It is what is preventing the waters God saw in the beginning from pouring over us, I'll explain later what the stars and planets are below.

"And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good." - Genisis 1:9-10

After God separated the first two heavens with the firmament, the dry land appeared which is what we are currently standing on. He left some water which is what we know as the ocean and the seas. This should give you a clear image of what Earth is now, you can see that it is not a "planet" but a flat plane that could span forever for all we know.

What are the stars and planets?

Stars are created in the waters above the firmament though a phenomenon called Sonoluminescence. To avoid making this thread bigger than it already is I'll just leave it at that. I'm still not entirely sure what planets like Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are so your guess is as good as mine.

What is the Sun and Moon?

The sun and moon hover and rotate above the earth and below the firmament and are the same size. The sun provides light during the day and the moon during the night. Both are required to create days as they revolve in a circle around earth. The moon is actually transparent and you can see stars through it if you look for them.

I suggest you read this article Refuting flat earth - creation.com especially the section on what the Bible teaches and the legitimate evidence that the earth is spherical.

 

[Qwertyui0p]

Want more proof that Globe Earth is a deception from Satan?

Globe Earth's tilt is 23.4°
90° - 23.4° = 66.6°

Globe Earth's Curvature Formula is 18in per mile squared
If 8in per mile squared then
1 mile = .666ft

Orbit speed = 18.5 mps (miles per second)
18.5mps = 66,600 mph

Don't believe me? Do the math. What are the odds? Are you sure God would create Earth with the mark of the beast all over? I think not.

Refuting flat earth - creation.com

 

[Qwertyui0p]

Because Globe Earth is not biblical and a deception from Satan which is what this thread is about. Know thy enemy and understand why they lie about the Earth being a sphere. When you finally realize that Earth is not a planet you'll see that only God could create all this which will make you love and believe in Jesus and God more.

I fail to see how a correct or incorrect understanding of the shape of the earth is related to our love and belief in God.
Also, Refuting flat earth - creation.com

 

[Amittai]

And I'm still waiting for an excuse on why objects of greater mass don't attract objects of smaller mass that isn't because "Earth is too big".

Earth is an object and they undoubtedly do, to negligible extent.

 

[46AND2]

Interesting....

The ISS orbit visualized on the flat earth map (Azimuthal equidistant projection)

You realize that in that model the flat earth is spinning, right?

 

[Amittai]

Because Globe Earth is not biblical and a deception from Satan which is what this thread is about. Know thy enemy and understand why they lie about the Earth being a sphere. When you finally realize that Earth is not a planet you'll see that only God could create all this which will make you love and believe in Jesus and God more.

I see those things anyway.

As Duhem and Quine pointed out, science doesn't "prove". Popper proposes potential falsification within falsifiability, which you appeal to (though omitting some data and badly interpreting others). According to Newman, degrees of inference give us our matter for assent at any time. These two principles are an inverse pair.

Hence Washington on the Delaware draws on his own camp's and the opposing camp's records, diaries, reminiscences, plus objects surfacing in the ground. New data fleshes out the picture.

God's action in individual human personalities is usually the main kind of evidence for God that opens eyes, these days.

Physical evidence in nature used to go roughly hand in hand with that in the minds of many for whom religious belief was in their heritage but, in an atmosphere which in a befuddled way attempts to "disprove" the existence of God, most of us now don't understand how the physical evidence in nature reinforces our belief until after (and if) we believe for some other reason, e.g what we see happening to others.

This works IMO better, from "conventional science" - constantly developing as it is - than from "Christian flat earth" ideas, simply because of omitted and badly interpereted data. In other words the former seems to be better inference. Both run the race, one gets further.

And this is why evangelising should be backed up with prayer backed up by straightforward believing living. Using our faculty of inference well, as in aforementioned examples, is part and parcel OF good and maturing living. The true God doesn't require us to dumb down (misrepresent His great works) nor to suspend thought which we shall need (He does provide us with the tools for life).

Science will never complete the picture. Our fellow human beings will be reassured by us as individuals if we demonstrate as high a standard of inference as we are capable of.

 

[Amittai]

Golly gee, I wonder why the earthly rulers restrict travel and exploration of Antarctica. I guess because we could see the edge and touch the firmament and thus prove God created the earth. Better keep it hidden from public view so people think everything is made of star dust and thus there is no meaning to life.

I thought "stardust" was what was supposed to be what gives meaning to life.

"I'm just going outside, and I may be some time."

 

[tryphena rose]

I did not expect to get these kind of replies in a Christian forum of all places.

Hey, just to let you know myself and my husband came to the realization that the earth is as the bible claims it, flat, about 2 years ago. You are not alone despite how you may feel on this forum. Do not despair over how people treat you, instead pray for them and show them love. It is a hard thing to talk about, because the world has been made "obvious" to facts. But from what I've seen in you're post, even though you are the one with the "crazy" beliefs, you also were the only one to offer scripture instead of men's words and equations. And scripture is the basis of our belief, let God be true and every man a liar Romans 3:4. My husband and I strive to talk of Jesus instead of our different beliefs, to keep from arguing, and to focus on the gospel. If we come into opening up more to people we do share this belief with them, because it is simple and so evident in the bible.

To start, the word firmament being used in genesis 1 KJV, is raqiya in hebrew. It means to be beaten into place, or expanse(yet not an endless one). Which is why King James decided to use the word firmament, because it was evident to his translators that the old testament was speaking of a firm and durable structure. And it says that all of the heavenly bodies are within the firmament. And that over the firmament is water, which must further imply its strength to hold the water--thus firm. So the firmament is along the lines of a dome. The firmament is right over our heads, this has always been what the Bible has said, and the hebrews, before the advent of the geocentric model, have always observed it.

Moving on to the other stand-out parts in the bible: From Jesus being taken to a mountain and seeing all of the kingdoms of the earth from where he stood, to the sun being made still instead of the earth in the book of joshua(showing a geocentric sun orbiting model), even the fact that Jesus rose up after ressurection, where would he had gone? through an endless space? a different dimension? most Christians probably believe through a portal. but to sit at the right hand of God, and none of that is even mentioned? When his habitation is stated to be over the firmament of which we live. And what about the bible saying the firmament is like a molten looking glass? or that the earth is a circle, which is flat? Hebrew is chug, meaning circle, or to draw like a compass. When the bible could of used the word ball, being Hebrew dur, if He truly meant to call the earth a sphere.

People have many presuppositions, and belief in science over God's word.

and also all of Noah's waters that came half through the fountains of the deep and the other half through the windows of heaven(firmament) and returned there in genesis 8. where is all of that water now when people look at Nasa's photos? who are they calling the liar here? what about the bible saying in many verses, that the earth is stable, steadfast, has foundations, cannot be moved, etc. and yet people think we're moving millions of miles through space in all different directions.

Really it is indisputable if they were to look at the evidence and be honest with themselves. The bible surely and undoubtedly claims the earth to be flat, the dilemma is whether people want to believe Him. Even atheists try to poke holes at our theology, by pointing out flat earth verses to Christians that believe in globes.

We're told prove things for its goodness, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" mainly by His word, but not to just flat out deny like most people here. God can be proven whether the universe is limited or limitless, because He is God, and he made us to know that He is real, but the truth is that the world is very limited(being bound by His firmament), which speaks even greater to all people that there is most definitely a creator that loves us to give us complete dominion over this domed earth, and that also, the evil ones that have fallen, are in our midst(making it all the more real), when a globe earth makes them out to be other-dimensional and benign.

we see the need for these plain and simple scriptural truths to be said, like you, and we commend you for your courage. don't focus too much on it, but definitely, share your beliefs without shame. let them berate you, you do see it plainly what it does say in God's word.

 

[46AND2]

Hey, just to let you know myself and my husband came to the realization that the earth is as the bible claims it, flat, about 2 years ago. You are not alone despite how you may feel on this forum. Do not despair over how people treat you, instead pray for them and show them love. It is a hard thing to talk about, because the world has been made "obvious" to facts. But from what I've seen in you're post, even though you are the one with the "crazy" beliefs, you also were the only one to offer scripture instead of men's words and equations. And scripture is the basis of our belief, let God be true and every man a liar Romans 3:4. My husband and I strive to talk of Jesus instead of our different beliefs, to keep from arguing, and to focus on the gospel. If we come into opening up more to people we do share this belief with them, because it is simple and so evident in the bible.

To start, the word firmament being used in genesis 1 KJV, is raqiya in hebrew. It means to be beaten into place, or expanse(yet not an endless one). Which is why King James decided to use the word firmament, because it was evident to his translators that the old testament was speaking of a firm and durable structure. And it says that all of the heavenly bodies are within the firmament. And that over the firmament is water, which must further imply its strength to hold the water--thus firm. So the firmament is along the lines of a dome. The firmament is right over our heads, this has always been what the Bible has said, and the hebrews, before the advent of the geocentric model, have always observed it.

Moving on to the other stand-out parts in the bible: From Jesus being taken to a mountain and seeing all of the kingdoms of the earth from where he stood, to the sun being made still instead of the earth in the book of joshua(showing a geocentric sun orbiting model), even the fact that Jesus rose up after ressurection, where would he had gone? through an endless space? a different dimension? most Christians probably believe through a portal. but to sit at the right hand of God, and none of that is even mentioned? When his habitation is stated to be over the firmament of which we live. And what about the bible saying the firmament is like a molten looking glass? or that the earth is a circle, which is flat? Hebrew is chug, meaning circle, or to draw like a compass. When the bible could of used the word ball, being Hebrew dur, if He truly meant to call the earth a sphere.

People have many presuppositions, and belief in science over God's word.

and also all of Noah's waters that came half through the fountains of the deep and the other half through the windows of heaven(firmament) and returned there in genesis 8. where is all of that water now when people look at Nasa's photos? who are they calling the liar here? what about the bible saying in many verses, that the earth is stable, steadfast, has foundations, cannot be moved, etc. and yet people think we're moving millions of miles through space in all different directions.

Really it is indisputable if they were to look at the evidence and be honest with themselves. The bible surely and undoubtedly claims the earth to be flat, the dilemma is whether people want to believe Him. Even atheists try to poke holes at our theology, by pointing out flat earth verses to Christians that believe in globes.

We're told prove things for its goodness, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" mainly by His word, but not to just flat out deny like most people here. God can be proven whether the universe is limited or limitless, because He is God, and he made us to know that He is real, but the truth is that the world is very limited(being bound by His firmament), which speaks even greater to all people that there is most definitely a creator that loves us to give us complete dominion over this domed earth, and that also, the evil ones that have fallen, are in our midst(making it all the more real), when a globe earth makes them out to be other-dimensional and benign.

we see the need for these plain and simple scriptural truths to be said, like you, and we commend you for your courage. don't focus too much on it, but definitely, share your beliefs without shame. let them berate you, you do see it plainly what it does say in God's word.

Out of curiosity, let's hypothetically say you had the opportunity to go up and observe the earth from the International Space Station, and you saw with your own eyes that the earth was indeed a sphere...would you still go by your interpretation of the Bible?

Secondly, I find what you said here interesting: "where is all of that water now when people look at Nasa's photos? who are they calling the liar here?" It is a statement so far removed from my own logic, that it boggles the mind. "where is the water?" is a response to to NASA photos that would never cross my mind in a million years...even when I was a young earth creationist.

 

[Strathos]

It seems to me that if flat earthers knew how to do basic high school level math and geometry, a good 90% of their arguments would disappear.

 

[A_Thinker]

Because Globe Earth is not biblical and a deception from Satan which is what this thread is about. Know thy enemy and understand why they lie about the Earth being a sphere. When you finally realize that Earth is not a planet you'll see that only God could create all this which will make you love and believe in Jesus and God more.

So ... how come all the ancients (i.e. believers in a flat earth) ... didn't love and believe in Jesus and God more ???

 

[Velaut]

Why is the sun apparently 93 million miles away from Earth? Because 93 = Saturn. The Satanists who currently rule the earth and control all media worship Saturn aka Satan.

SATURN = 19 + 1 + 20 + 21 + 18 + 14 = 93

[/MEDIA]

People,
see now how important it is to learn a second language? Learn one! Many benefits, now including, to realize the above is nonsense.
Giving meaning to the ordinal numbers of letters, ts! Who does that!?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hey, just to let you know myself and my husband came to the realization that the earth is as the bible claims it, flat, about 2 years ago. You are not alone despite how you may feel on this forum. Do not despair over how people treat you, instead pray for them and show them love. It is a hard thing to talk about, because the world has been made "obvious" to facts. But from what I've seen in you're post, even though you are the one with the "crazy" beliefs, you also were the only one to offer scripture instead of men's words and equations. And scripture is the basis of our belief, let God be true and every man a liar Romans 3:4. My husband and I strive to talk of Jesus instead of our different beliefs, to keep from arguing, and to focus on the gospel. If we come into opening up more to people we do share this belief with them, because it is simple and so evident in the bible.

To start, the word firmament being used in genesis 1 KJV, is raqiya in hebrew. It means to be beaten into place, or expanse(yet not an endless one). Which is why King James decided to use the word firmament, because it was evident to his translators that the old testament was speaking of a firm and durable structure. And it says that all of the heavenly bodies are within the firmament. And that over the firmament is water, which must further imply its strength to hold the water--thus firm. So the firmament is along the lines of a dome. The firmament is right over our heads, this has always been what the Bible has said, and the hebrews, before the advent of the geocentric model, have always observed it.

Moving on to the other stand-out parts in the bible: From Jesus being taken to a mountain and seeing all of the kingdoms of the earth from where he stood, to the sun being made still instead of the earth in the book of joshua(showing a geocentric sun orbiting model), even the fact that Jesus rose up after ressurection, where would he had gone? through an endless space? a different dimension? most Christians probably believe through a portal. but to sit at the right hand of God, and none of that is even mentioned? When his habitation is stated to be over the firmament of which we live. And what about the bible saying the firmament is like a molten looking glass? or that the earth is a circle, which is flat? Hebrew is chug, meaning circle, or to draw like a compass. When the bible could of used the word ball, being Hebrew dur, if He truly meant to call the earth a sphere.

People have many presuppositions, and belief in science over God's word.

and also all of Noah's waters that came half through the fountains of the deep and the other half through the windows of heaven(firmament) and returned there in genesis 8. where is all of that water now when people look at Nasa's photos? who are they calling the liar here? what about the bible saying in many verses, that the earth is stable, steadfast, has foundations, cannot be moved, etc. and yet people think we're moving millions of miles through space in all different directions.

Really it is indisputable if they were to look at the evidence and be honest with themselves. The bible surely and undoubtedly claims the earth to be flat, the dilemma is whether people want to believe Him. Even atheists try to poke holes at our theology, by pointing out flat earth verses to Christians that believe in globes.

We're told prove things for its goodness, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" mainly by His word, but not to just flat out deny like most people here. God can be proven whether the universe is limited or limitless, because He is God, and he made us to know that He is real, but the truth is that the world is very limited(being bound by His firmament), which speaks even greater to all people that there is most definitely a creator that loves us to give us complete dominion over this domed earth, and that also, the evil ones that have fallen, are in our midst(making it all the more real), when a globe earth makes them out to be other-dimensional and benign.

we see the need for these plain and simple scriptural truths to be said, like you, and we commend you for your courage. don't focus too much on it, but definitely, share your beliefs without shame. let them berate you, you do see it plainly what it does say in God's word.

Would you care to have a polite discussion on how we know Flat Earth claims are false? You might have to learn some science and math.