DV spinoff

[LinkH]

She became irate with this and threatened to hire hit men, at that point I asked her if hit men took EBT cards as payment.

That was funny.

But hitmen have to eat too.

Someone ought to start documenting and recording the things this woman has done. A video of her getting her boyfriend turned in on trumped up abuse charges could be very valuable.

 

[Avniel]

no, don't. I don't want your salute. I don't want your attaboys.

I gave in to sin that day. You're cheering someone giving into the devil.

I don't believe that is giving into the devil. You hit someone that was hitting you at some point you need to understand you have every right to defend yourself to the best of your ability. Your life has value and you have every right to protect that from harm. Hitting someone can lead to killing someone and it could just be on accident. People will kill you out here in this wicked world and until God is ready to take me home I am going to defend it. If someone has a gun aimed at your head and they give you a loaded gun and allow you to aim it at them after they pull the trigger first are you going to feel bad for defending yourself or not. I have seen to many stories and know to many people to feel bad for defending myself. When someone hits you unless you are in a sports event they are trying to kill you and they can kill you regardless of size or weight....people get hit and die.............


As the scripture I posted turning the other cheek to me is once a person hits you and they move back and are no longer a threat don't chase them down. However a person swinging a shot at you and still in threat distance in one's own interest it's my experince that it's better to just do what you have to until they are no longer a threat.

I was hit most of my life. I lived out of the country when I was younger I lived at a boarding school from 5th grade to 7th grade and again at 15-16(after my mother lied and told my father something and while my little sister was saying it wasn't true he hit me and choked me out......I blacked out)......other then that at least on a daily basis I was slapped sometimes punched. I began to train and fight as a sport to get my body to the place where I would never have to endure that type of thing again......when I was 19 or maybe 20 I turned around I gathered my stance and was prepared to fight my father my brother grabbed me and I punched him as hard as I could in the face. After that situation nobody in my family has ever beaten me up.

I'm not sorry for that I see no sin in what I did. I don't know your situation but standing up and saying enough isn't wrong. We are trained to believe it's wrong to stop any sort of oppression because that's what most of us are under.

 

[Avniel]

EVERYONE has been "damaged" in one way or another. There is no flawless, perfect person with NO emotional hurt in their past. The idea that ALL people who have been through a certain situation are ALL going to be "damaged" and therefore unworthy, is pathetic, lazy thinking. I know people who were abused who turned into bitter, hateful adults. I know others who were abused who rose above their pasts and broke the cycle of abuse and became admirable, wonderful people. "I" didn't have a healthy relationship with my father. "I" was a single mother. Apparently, I'm a damaged, worthless piece of garbage who isn't worth Avniel's time of day. To that I say, his ignorance will only be passed onto his children, and the cycle of ignorant bias will continue, unless he or someone in his line of descendants chooses to break it. I chose to break the cycles of guilt, abuse, and emotional dysfunction that I grew up with. My son grew up surrounded by loving, secure relationships, and now has a father who is an amazing male role model and who loves him as his own. But, apparently, since my past is what it is, and can't be changed, all the good that I've accomplished is null and void, and I should've just curled up in a corner and accepted that I was doomed to be a "damaged" woman forever, unworthy of anyone.

Excuse me while I

Well the reality is I think I have broken the cycle. I have never been hit by a woman and I have never hit a woman. The reason I personally have never hit a woman is because a woman has never hit me. However I do admit that I do have issues and problems as we all do. Am I better then a woman that has been abused is an abused woman better then me? I do not believe so I just don't think that's my type of personal issues I would like to be around due to what I've experienced. That doesn't mean I won't pray for you or I don't care about you it just means that my history doesn't allow me to become close to some with your history.

That's me knowing who I am as a person nothing more nothing less.

 

[Avniel]

I understand both sides. I understand feeling justified in defending one's self, one's family, and one's community. I also understand that allowing hatred, rage, and resentment to fester, rather than a sense of objective, rational justice, is only counter-productive.

I think the culture of violence in america is something very difficult to understand. There is almost either a nobility in violence or there is a sense of criminality with the violence. The reality is despite resentment, fear, hatred and anger the reality is the same the person that hits you is trying to kill you. Children's minds are not developed enough to understand what it means to enter into combat with another human being. As I have said there is no such thing as a fair fight, when someone contacts you with their body in a way that is meant to cause harm and they are still in your personal space you need to realize the type of situation you are in. Life is not something that is worth playing with, people die from violence I don't want it to be.

 

[Avniel]

When it comes to domestic violence, it is ALWAYS personal and no, I won't step back from it, especially when someone is saying stupid things.



I don't even know what you're really trying to say here. There was no way I would've known that he was abusive. Many abusive relationships are this way. Sometimes there's a niggling, like ValleyGal says, but that STILL doesn't take the heat off the abuser.

If you want to sit there and think that you are somewhat at fault for the gun at your head, you go ahead and do so, but don't put that blame on the rest of the world. Don't say "it was your fault" to me just because you think it was your fault.

I absolutely will NOT take responsibility for the actions of my ex. HE and HE ALONE is responsible for them. Attitudes like yours only actually make abusers think they're in the right.

In your sentence you used a word that typically comes before profanity. I was simply stating that those types of words aren't needed in this type of conversation. Just because we disagree doesn't give you a right to use that type of langugue with you. Now I am saying stupid things you are trying to entice me to say something and are using bullying tactics to get me to become angry. I have not said anything rude to you just gave you things from the prospective of a child that witnessed it. You have no right to call what I think and feel stupid and all I have done is show you respect.

This is kind of what I am talking about. Here I am telling my story and what I have been through being as open and honest as possible about what I have gone through and you insult me. The reason I am being attacked is because you have had your own personal issues and situations that have nothing to do with me. Instead of trying to get me to see your perspective which Valley certainly has many times, you insult me.

That is why I do not like being around people that have had certain stimuli. Just like you have no reason to use those types of words and call my idea stupid you have no reason to put your hands on anyone. So instead of dealing with what I typically note as aggression due to your past I just deem your attitude unacceptable therefore this will be the last time I respond to you unless you enter into the conversation ready to exchange thoughts, disagree and or agree at a level where we both are showing each other respect. Right now it's kind of one sided on the who's showing who respect.

No I said it was your fault because you decided to be in a relationship with someone that abused you. I have never been in an abusive relationship because I made certain choices. You have free will I have free will until you enter into a relationship where you have no choice then I would examine my conclusion a little more deeply.

I witnessed my father being beat up because of certain cultural attitudes. I am talking about how woman on man domestic violence made me feel and what I wish would have happpened in all truth........what your attitude right now is making me want to do is close up and that's what a lot of men that have been a victim of domestic violence feel like(and I am a victim of domestic violence I was a child I had no choice) don't speak. That's one of the reason why the culture is so silent on this issue because men are scared to talk about their feelings.............


I thought this was supposed to be a safe place where we could share our feelings and thoughts.

 

[Avniel]

If you could have re-written the script of what happened to your mom and dad, is that how you would have done it, have him 'neutralize' her and divorce her. If they both were to be a part of their kids life, leaving each other alone for life can't really be done. There are times to pick up the children.

Is there some other way you would have had him done things, hit her once to teach her a lesson? spank her till she stop hitting him? Pin her down? Leave the house if she started acting like that? What would you have wanted your dad to do?

How I would have done it was not even enter into the relationship. If she would have hit me and walked away I would have left her without a penny. I would have taken everything from her and became a doctor in another country with my children. I wouldn't have ever allowed them to go through what I did more then once. If she would have hit me and stayed aggressive approaching foward(my first step is step back) then I would swing.

Some people don't deserve to be in their children lives. Any human being that feels that they can put their hands on someone and claim they love them shouldn't be in their children's lives period.

As someone that has been in fights and has broken up fights I think that is safest way to deal with someone that is acting violent. If anyone tells you differently they are lying any body that trains will tell the safest way to deal with a threat is swift, fast and hard. It's just that simple I think once a person hits you they no longer care about you and shouldn't care about them. When you are hit it is a you or them situation.

 

[DZoolander]

As I said, you don't understand the stereotyping you're perpetuating here.

You've said more than once that you don't have respect for a guy who doesn't hit back. That's the ole "be a man" type attitude. Boys who cried were told that when they were growing up. "Grow a pair", right? Those are the boys who become abusers later on. Those are the boys who are taught that violence is the right answer.

Violence is NEVER the answer.

I think it's naive to say that violence is never the answer.

I intend for my daughter (when she's old enough) to take Krav Maga (the Israeli martial art which is pretty akin to straight/dirty street fighting. It's constructed to win fights - however necessary). I want her to take it because I can envision situations where she might be in harms way - where violence would definitely be the answer.

 

[Avniel]

I think it's naive to say that violence is never the answer.

I intend for my daughter (when she's old enough) to take Krav Maga (the Israeli martial art which is pretty akin to straight/dirty street fighting. It's constructed to win fights - however necessary). I want her to take it because I can envision situations where she might be in harms way - where violence would definitely be the answer.

My daughter can do whatever activities she wants but she will do boxing, muy thai and then overall MMA as a teen. I want my daughter to be able to defend herself this world is wicked. I think that's what people don't understand people will kill you, fighting is not for fun.

 

[DZoolander]

I think you misunderstood what he was saying.

When he said "my now-ex-wife" he means he's divorced. Not that he's asking if he should find her "now" and hit her. He's saying he doesn't think hitting back when it was happening would have been a good viable response - for the reasons he gives.

 

[ValleyGal]

Avniel, I am intrigued by your response to your father's response to his abuse/r. Maybe that is what the difference is between you and PW and me. PW and I identify with women who are abused and we are not abusers. You are not an abuser, but yet you identified more with your mom (not in an abuser way, but in the way that you think of your father as a coward, and she probably did, too). Thank you for breaking the cycle. Breaking the cycle will teach your daughter that she deserves to be in a non-abusive relationship when she is older.

I also agree with you that self-defense is not a sin. God gave us emotions based on adrenaline for a reason, often that reason is fear or pain. Both fear and pain are God's way of warning us that there is something seriously wrong and requires our attention, and the adrenaline that rushes in a physical fight provides the rapid brain-firing that requires an immediate and innate response for self protection. God created us - we are fearfully and wonderfully made, and that is part of our "wonderful" make. It is preservation of his very handiwork...

 

[Avniel]

Avniel, I am intrigued by your response to your father's response to his abuse/r. Maybe that is what the difference is between you and PW and me. PW and I identify with women who are abused and we are not abusers. You are not an abuser, but yet you identified more with your mom (not in an abuser way, but in the way that you think of your father as a coward, and she probably did, too). Thank you for breaking the cycle. Breaking the cycle will teach your daughter that she deserves to be in a non-abusive relationship when she is older.

I also agree with you that self-defense is not a sin. God gave us emotions based on adrenaline for a reason, often that reason is fear or pain. Both fear and pain are God's way of warning us that there is something seriously wrong and requires our attention, and the adrenaline that rushes in a physical fight provides the rapid brain-firing that requires an immediate and innate response for self protection. God created us - we are fearfully and wonderfully made, and that is part of our "wonderful" make. It is preservation of his very handiwork...

Thank you. I think for me what it was is that I was a child. I looked to my parents for protection and I wasn't protected. I had to protect myself so there was never really anyone for me to go to. Instead of a parent the one less damaged and knew better should have stood up for what's right. I didn't get that all I got was hit so others didn't get hit. I don't look at my father as a coward for not hitting her back I more so look at him as a coward for hitting his son when he knew what he was doing was wrong. He's a coward because he is still staying and dealing with the crazy stuff.

Maybe I come off harsh because I had to be. I promised myself I'm not going to be in that situation in life. I worked on my self and planned my way to freedom and to me being hit is acceptable. I don't back done from anyone and it's not because I'm macho man it's because I've been a doormat for most of my life. I'd rather die then to allow someone to ever beat on me again. I built me to there nobody has helped me heal from that more then my wife. I won't look for a fight and I can be whatever people want me to be and all the names too so long as they don't touch me.

I will say I differ from them because I hold both of them accountable. It was my father and mother's fault. My mother was so angry at her lack of her father, so upset that the black community rejected her, so mad at black people and black men she taught her daughter white is better and she systematically tried to destroy every male in her life. She has generations of other people's demons in her and a mother that will validate that evil. My mother was a bully, she's a wicked woman that can't know God. She cause chaos and havoc for no reason other then she wanted to. She was a ungodly woman with no self control no ability to be normal and no willingness to.

My father is a coward because I'm way better of a man then he is. I stand up for what I believe in I don't stand for immorality. If I believe something is wrong I take a stand. I was abused for years and I've never let my head be down and I built that myself. You have to also understand I trained to fight and a good amount of my family do break the law. In my culture and the circles I run there's nothing wrong with loosing a fight but not fighting gets you branded a coward forever.

For me it's really that simple talk about my momma, talk about my dead grandfather and you can talk about me. Just don't threaten my daughter and don't touch me there will never be a problem.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

In your sentence you used a word that typically comes before profanity. I was simply stating that those types of words aren't needed in this type of conversation. Just because we disagree doesn't give you a right to use that type of langugue with you. Now I am saying stupid things you are trying to entice me to say something and are using bullying tactics to get me to become angry. I have not said anything rude to you just gave you things from the prospective of a child that witnessed it. You have no right to call what I think and feel stupid and all I have done is show you respect.

I'm allowed to address the post. I found your post to be stupid. I can say BULL all I want, too, there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe you are the one with the problem if you're automatically going to a swear word after it.

This is kind of what I am talking about. Here I am telling my story and what I have been through being as open and honest as possible about what I have gone through and you insult me. The reason I am being attacked is because you have had your own personal issues and situations that have nothing to do with me. Instead of trying to get me to see your perspective which Valley certainly has many times, you insult me.

You are doing more than just telling your story. You are telling your story and then deciding on how EVERYONE should act based on what happened to you. And then if people don't act that way you are making judgments on them.

I don't care if you see my perspective or not, Avniel. It's MY perspective for a reason. I don't even care if people are wrong. But when being wrong can get someone killed, or when saying stuff like "losing a fight is okay but not fighting at all is cowardice", yes I'm going to speak up against that.

That is why I do not like being around people that have had certain stimuli. Just like you have no reason to use those types of words and call my idea stupid you have no reason to put your hands on anyone. So instead of dealing with what I typically note as aggression due to your past I just deem your attitude unacceptable therefore this will be the last time I respond to you unless you enter into the conversation ready to exchange thoughts, disagree and or agree at a level where we both are showing each other respect. Right now it's kind of one sided on the who's showing who respect.

Sorry. I have a hard time respecting the words that say we should be violent to one another. I have a hard time respecting someone who sits there and believes that the abuse I suffered in my marriage was my fault.

No I said it was your fault because you decided to be in a relationship with someone that abused you. I have never been in an abusive relationship because I made certain choices. You have free will I have free will until you enter into a relationship where you have no choice then I would examine my conclusion a little more deeply.

I decided to be in a relationship with someone. I found out AFTER that he was abusive. I got out when I could. You need to STOP with the "it's your fault" nonsense, Avniel. That's victim-blaming and it's BULL. You are lucky that you haven't been in an abusive relationship but that's because you GREW UP IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP. I haven't been in an abusive relationship since my ex. So you are actually no better than I am, even with your attempts to make yourself better.

I witnessed my father being beat up because of certain cultural attitudes. I am talking about how woman on man domestic violence made me feel and what I wish would have happpened in all truth........what your attitude right now is making me want to do is close up and that's what a lot of men that have been a victim of domestic violence feel like(and I am a victim of domestic violence I was a child I had no choice) don't speak. That's one of the reason why the culture is so silent on this issue because men are scared to talk about their feelings.............

The irony here is outrageous. *I'm* not the one making men wanna shut up about being abused. YOU ARE. You're the one talking about how men need to fight back and if they don't they're cowards. Yeah, that's REALLY going to want to make men talk about being abused, because in your world, if they say they didn't fight back, you would basically totally disrespect them.

If *I* were a man I'd not want to share around you because you have such a macho manner about you. As I pointed out, the stereotype you're perpetuating here LEADS men to be abusers.

I thought this was supposed to be a safe place where we could share our feelings and thoughts.

As I said above, you are doing more than sharing thoughts and feelings. You are JUDGING people for the relationships they were in. How's about I say that you being abused growing up was your fault? You didn't leave, right? You just kept right on taking it, and watching your dad take it. Some man you are, Avniel.

How does that make you feel? Because your posts OOZE with it towards people who have been abusive.

Put me on ignore if you have to because I won't stop saying these things as long as you're saying the stuff you are.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I think it's naive to say that violence is never the answer.

I intend for my daughter (when she's old enough) to take Krav Maga (the Israeli martial art which is pretty akin to straight/dirty street fighting. It's constructed to win fights - however necessary). I want her to take it because I can envision situations where she might be in harms way - where violence would definitely be the answer.

That's fine but that's not what we're talking about here. My kids can defend themselves too. I could defend myself as well. But we're talking about abusive relationships, not meeting some mugger on the street.

Karate and dirty street fighting don't mean nothing when the abuse is mental as well as physical. Daughters who get caught up won't fight back if they think their family is in danger. My ex often pointed his shot gun at me, and then our son, and told me if I ever left him he would find me and my family and kill us. Easy to sit in my office chair now and say "no he wouldn't have" but let me tell you - even NOW I know he has the ability and the means.

I've known women who taught self defense classes and who were marksmans in abusive relationships.

 

[Avniel]

I'm allowed to address the post. I found your post to be stupid. I can say BULL all I want, too, there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe you are the one with the problem if you're automatically going to a swear word after it.



You are doing more than just telling your story. You are telling your story and then deciding on how EVERYONE should act based on what happened to you. And then if people don't act that way you are making judgments on them.

I don't care if you see my perspective or not, Avniel. It's MY perspective for a reason. I don't even care if people are wrong. But when being wrong can get someone killed, or when saying stuff like "losing a fight is okay but not fighting at all is cowardice", yes I'm going to speak up against that.



Sorry. I have a hard time respecting the words that say we should be violent to one another. I have a hard time respecting someone who sits there and believes that the abuse I suffered in my marriage was my fault.



I decided to be in a relationship with someone. I found out AFTER that he was abusive. I got out when I could. You need to STOP with the "it's your fault" nonsense, Avniel. That's victim-blaming and it's BULL. You are lucky that you haven't been in an abusive relationship but that's because you GREW UP IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP. I haven't been in an abusive relationship since my ex. So you are actually no better than I am, even with your attempts to make yourself better.



The irony here is outrageous. *I'm* not the one making men wanna shut up about being abused. YOU ARE. You're the one talking about how men need to fight back and if they don't they're cowards. Yeah, that's REALLY going to want to make men talk about being abused, because in your world, if they say they didn't fight back, you would basically totally disrespect them.

If *I* were a man I'd not want to share around you because you have such a macho manner about you. As I pointed out, the stereotype you're perpetuating here LEADS men to be abusers.



As I said above, you are doing more than sharing thoughts and feelings. You are JUDGING people for the relationships they were in. How's about I say that you being abused growing up was your fault? You didn't leave, right? You just kept right on taking it, and watching your dad take it. Some man you are, Avniel.

How does that make you feel? Because your posts OOZE with it towards people who have been abusive.

Put me on ignore if you have to because I won't stop saying these things as long as you're saying the stuff you are.

SO you basically told me you are going to continue to be rude and use offensive language with a person that has done nothing more then give their opinion. What you are doing is using aggression and what ever methods you typically use to silence me because you don't agree with me. WHat you are doing is being a cyber bully and it's not going to get me upset or mad so you might as well enter into the conversation as an adult and share your opinion and state it minus the insults. As a person in a position of leadership within the church I would think you would have more christian maturity to not interact with others in such a manner. The way you are addressing me more importantly lacks class, it lacks tact and it comes from an unloving position.

The irony here is that a few posts away I made a comment in regards to why I don't even like to be around women in particular that were abused. I think this is a perfect display of why. I typically don't deal with women that have been abused because a good deal of their communication skills I just find to be hateful, rude, mean and nasty. By staying away from them I typically deal with women who communicate similar to Valley. Who shared her story and it really surprised me some of the things she has been through. However the profanity, the stupid and other insults are typical based on what I have seen coming from these women.

Just because you're mad at my opinion doesn't mean being nasty makes your point that much better. It just means you and my mother have very similar personalities that's something she used to do and it never bothered me or changed my opinion so you are really just wasting your time.......and allowing yourself to become an example on the reason why I stay away from women that have gone through certain things. Your communication on this thread is very typical.

This type of interaction is the reason why so many posters do not want to post here. You can say whatever you want to it will never get me upset and you can't run me off of this forum I will continue to write my opinion. However if I were you I'd try a more pleasing to God way to speak to people.

Where in my thread did I say that everyone should have the same response? I actually believe I gave several different options however I believe the safest option when a person is trying to fight you is to go on the defensive then neutralize the threat.


If you have someone swinging at you and you are trying to grab their arms vs someone swinging at you and you are trying to waiting for the proper attack one person is going to be hit way more. Do you know which person that is? If you say the one waiting to attack is I don't see any reason to ever respond to anything you ever post.


So let me get this straight you believe that feeling that not fighting back is a cowardly thing to do puts people's lives in danger? If a woman hits a man and that man hits that woman back in self defense who's life is in danger? Anytime someone is hit a life is in danger. If you hit someone first you have to understand you have entered into a dangerous situation. When someone hits another person they have caused a situation where both people's lives are in jeopardy.

No, no, no the reality is a majority of my friends have been in relationships where abuse has taken place and I advise them all the same thing. Unlike you I actually take time when I say things to people and I don't have to be aggressive to do it. On the contrary most of my friends that have been in abusive relationships actually come to me for advice and you know what I say..............I tell them the same thing I'd tell my little cousin if they were being bullied in school.................don't let anyone beat your butt. It's as simple as that.

The irony is my best friend and cousin is in an abusive relationship that he remains in. You know who he comes to? He comes to me, do you want to know why? I give him the reality, the fact is he has a cookie on his eye, he has been cut up and he doesn't know what to do.......he can not leave because his children will be living with a woman that has threatened to kill him and he will not be given custody.......I told him "to record her threatening the children, press charges against her, keep a record of book of crazy things she says, keep all your texts with her threatening the kids(that's why I still have the texts in my phone).....if she hits you back up and if she charges you hit her as hard as you can. If she goes for a knife make sure you understand it's either your life or her's and your children need you more."


YOU WANT MEN THAT ARE GOING TO STAND THERE AND BE HIT YOU WANT ME THAT ARE GOING TO TAKE ABUSE AND NOT DEFEND THEMSELVES. YOUR MENTALITY IS THE REASON WHY I GREW UP THE WAY I DID.

Let's kill all of this macho talk I don't care about being macho. You think because I am a man I automatically want to be seen as this macho macho man. The reality is I am a person that was hit a lot as a child and now that I am older I have decided that if someone hits me and they are still invading my personal space I hope they have insurance and some sick leave. Truthfully I am not sorry for that I personally don't care once you place your hands on me it's all about me and has nothing to do with anyone else.

However people have to place that macho label on my thought, it's easier to discredit it. Instead of understanding nobody wants someone to hit them and a natural reaction from being hit is hitting back.......that's reality minus all of that machoism. I don't like to be hit, I don't like to hit other's but once I am hit I don't care about any of that. I am in a situation where I can hurt someone and they can hurt me.

 

[ValleyGal]

So coming from a different perspective, I can see the similarities between people who have been abused... Av has been abused, and his response is anger towards his father for not standing up to it; PW and I have (or at least likely have had) anger toward our abusers - and some women will generalize that to all men. I can't speak for PW, but as someone who was abused, I was angry in the same way as Av - angry at the abuser, but also at myself to a lesser degree that I got myself into that situation.

The thing is, later the anger comes out in other ways - typically in our relationships with other people. And since abuse is so emotionally charged to start with, sometimes we can take our anger out on each other, and people can become angry over other people's anger. A gentler way to deal with it is to identify with the pain abused people have experienced - and that is something we can all identify with. PW had pain in her life as a result of realizing after the fact that her husband was an abuser. Av had pain in his life as a result of watching his father become emasculated at the hands of his mother. People, we all have the same pain....let's be compassionate with each other in our pain. It is our common ground.

 

[Avniel]

Valley you made me change this post. This is what I am saying maybe what I am running from isn't the abused women but it's the anger of the abused woman. I have seen anger of abused women all my life and I don't want to be a part of that. I think that they way you approach me isn't from an abused woman prospective but of a more healed woman. I think that's why I do enjoy learning from your perspective in a sad way I guess it gives me some type of hope for my mother which is pretty sad.

I was watching this show on the OWN channel iyanla fix my life.....have you heard of it. Anyway the show was about a group of men that had numerous children. One man got up and apologized to this other man's mother on behalf of "his father, brother and grandfather for all the lies and broken promises." She then turned to her son and apologized to him for taking out her anger on her son, for destroying him and who he could have been......her anger towards her own father wouldn't allow her to be a real mother to her sons. Instead she taught them to hate themselves and hate women even more. Their desire for these women came from their desire to be loved by women that just didn't have it to give. It really made sense to, there was a time when I would only allow myself to know a woman for two weeks and then it was on to the next one. That made me feel good when I went to college I met someone that I knew was different. She was my friend and for the first time in my life I had a friend that nurtured me in ways I wish my mother could have.

To say that my position is one of machoism and comes from a need to feel like a man down plays not only what my mother has done to me but what my mother has done to my father. There are broken people that are destroying and damaging others........the broken women that are damaging men have no accountability. In a community where majority of the women are growing up with out fathers, then having children and hating their sons you have to expect this.

I think it's not realistic to think that someone who has been beat at the hand of a woman also ordered by a woman and witnessed his father beat at the hand of a woman and a plethora of his friends.........shouldn't feel the way I do.

At this point in my life I don't care who you are what size you are or how many people are with you if I get hit it's going to be a fight. I've done that standing and being hit thing to much in my life and right now I don't back done. I had a DT get in an argument with me I didn't see their badge and he said "if you got a problem hop out the car" as I drove past.....you know what I did I hopped out. I trained, I studied I built myself so I could stop running.

It has nothing to do with being a man or a woman, it has nothing to do with gender

 

[ValleyGal]

That's a really great insight, Av....that perhaps your "fear" per se, is women's anger - whether that anger is expressed in the form of abuse (like your mom against your dad) or from the abused woman who expresses anger over her abuse. I wonder... are you also uncomfortable around anger expressed by men towards their female abusers? Because it seems that you don't get upset about that so much as you get upset that your dad took it lying down. You wanted him to get up and fight his abuser.... and for me, I didn't take abuse for very long... first "mistake" was a benefit of the doubt, second was having him move out of my house, and third was straightup divorce. I did not take it lying down like your dad did - in fact, I exercised some self defense in the last fight. So maybe you have a certain amount of respect for that, which you wish your father had, and likely wish PW had as well. My anger was in the heat of the fight...and I used it for self defense, where some people do not fight back and can carry their anger with them and eventually displace that anger onto others who are seen as a sort of surrogate for the real person it should be directed at.

It gets confusing. But I hope and pray in the depth of my soul that both you and PW (if she hasn't already) find healing in Christ and that you will walk in freedom...

 

[mkgal1]

what your attitude right now is making me want to do is close up and that's what a lot of men that have been a victim of domestic violence feel like(and I am a victim of domestic violence I was a child I had no choice) don't speak. That's one of the reason why the culture is so silent on this issue because men are scared to talk about their feelings.............


I thought this was supposed to be a safe place where we could share our feelings and thoughts.

Didn't I say that earlier in the thread? Here it is......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844736-3/

and you responded with:

Men have all sorts of emotions and feelings and there are a good deal of us that share them with others. I have never met a man that was incapable of sharing their feelings other then anger. I think that's a stereotype and part of the issue. I feel anger, happiness, excitement, sadness, joy, disappointment and so many other emotions just because I am not going to cry in front of people I don't trust and don't know doesn't mean I don't feel. People want these overly sensitive men.

Personally......it's not "overly sensitive men" that I see as the good result....but men that have some introspection as to why they react certain ways and how to recognize what needs changing and what is valuable and worthy of holding on to.

 

[Avniel]

That's a really great insight, Av....that perhaps your "fear" per se, is women's anger - whether that anger is expressed in the form of abuse (like your mom against your dad) or from the abused woman who expresses anger over her abuse. I wonder... are you also uncomfortable around anger expressed by men towards their female abusers? Because it seems that you don't get upset about that so much as you get upset that your dad took it lying down. You wanted him to get up and fight his abuser.... and for me, I didn't take abuse for very long... first "mistake" was a benefit of the doubt, second was having him move out of my house, and third was straightup divorce. I did not take it lying down like your dad did - in fact, I exercised some self defense in the last fight. So maybe you have a certain amount of respect for that, which you wish your father had, and likely wish PW had as well. My anger was in the heat of the fight...and I used it for self defense, where some people do not fight back and can carry their anger with them and eventually displace that anger onto others who are seen as a sort of surrogate for the real person it should be directed at.

It gets confusing. But I hope and pray in the depth of my soul that both you and PW (if she hasn't already) find healing in Christ and that you will walk in freedom...

I think that is the biggest problem in the black community. We have women from single parent households that hate men having boys taking out the anger of their father and their child's father and it visits the son. Part of the problem is people don't take the time to understand the man's prospective. I believe that the black boy is the most unloved child in america. We are taught so much self hatred by our mothers we decide that other blacks lives are not worth much. This is part of the problem chicago, these kids grow up knowing they are nobodies like all the other black men so they go into the streets to find love.

I don't know if I would call it fear, I think it's more of anger towards women that have been abused. I don't think women care about the men that are negatively affected by their personal struggle. In a way I guess I still am looking for what the man kind of did, I am looking for an apology. I want women that were abused to know that they have the power to destroy little boys lives. They have the ability to make a child feel like he's nothing. I built myself up, I made myself believe in me even when I didn't I had nobody but myself. I am more so angry about abused women more so then anyone else. I think due to my grandma, grand auntie and other great women in my family I don't really have an issue directed at all women I have more so an issue with women that were abused.

Truthfully I really don't like to be around people that are angry. I don't like to be around yellers, or people that don't have that calmness about themselves. This why certain forums of communication make me write people off. I don't mind women that express their anger by communicating in a peaceful way but I don't like women that express their anger like my mother.

 

[Avniel]

Didn't I say that earlier in the thread? Here it is......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844736-3/

and you responded with:



Personally......it's not "overly sensitive men" that I see as the good result....but men that have some introspection as to why they react certain ways and how to recognize what needs changing and what is valuable and worthy of holding on to.

I think the reality is if a man says he's angry or says if anybody hits me I will hit them back it's automatically assumed he's taking the macho approach. He doesn't want to deal with his feelings, if a woman hits a man and he hits her back it's because he wants to communicate something to her but doesn't know how...................that's not always the case it's very possible that man just got tired of being hit. The other reason he might be afraid she's going to scar his face or damage his body.However when it comes to a man who has a valid reason to be upset we automatically write off his anger as "macho."


I think what we need in this society is men that aren't afraid to say "I am a man and I have a right to be angry and I understand my anger."


I don't really by into that I went to college I have friends from back home I know a lot of guys. Guys talk about more then football and basketball I have witnessed my friends shed tears, talk about relationship troubles, grieve the loss of a person, become sad, have bad days, be excited, hope, wish and dream. I don't believe that men need this extra mile to learn how to deal with their emotions most men I know understand their own emotions.

People don't want men that understand their emotions because unless I missed something we do. People want men that are weak and not weak because they show emotions. People don't want men that get slapped and become angry they want men that get slapped and become sad. They don't want men that are willing to fight and standup for what they believe in they want men that are passive in a bad way. They want men to be the doormats of society...........