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DV spinoff

mkgal1

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I don't have respect for punks, I don't have respect for those that have so little self respect they would allow someone to put them in a dangerous situation and won't even fight to get out of that..........we know legally typically is out of the question so at least defend yourself physically and remove yourself emotionally. If you allow someone to beat you up you don't deserve my respect.

All this attitude does is endorse violence in return (and beats these same men down). That's *not* an answer. Why not truly support these guys....instead of rail on them more?
 
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PreachersWife2004

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All this attitude does is endorse violence in return (and beats these same men down). That's *not* an answer. Why not truly support these guys....instead of rail on them more?

I don't think he understands the stereotype he perpetuates here, which often leads men to become abusers in the first place.
 
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Avniel

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I don't consider that him expressing himself honestly---I see that as him "not rocking the boat". I don't think it's right.....I think his true voice should have been heard (with love---not judgement).

Is your father still alive, Avniel? Do you have a relationship with him? Because our "eyes" and what we understand as children is far different than what we can comprehend as married adults (especially once we've had children).


That is sad....and it's completely wrong that your father (and you...and any other children) had to live that way. How does your disgust and contempt help, though?




That is great that you and your friend's can share emotions/feelings with each other. I was speaking more about what's culturally acceptable (in general)....and, as a whole, there are a lot of general attitudes that send the message (wrongly) that a male "isn't a man" if he has other emotions besides anger (fear is what I'm mainly thinking of).



My point behind bringing up emotions/feelings wasn't about the one on the receiving end---I was speaking of the one that is resorting to violence instead of expressing themselves in another (more appropriate) way. Often men resort to violence when what they're *really* feeling (deep down) is fear and frustration---but anger/violence is much more acceptable if one wants to stay within that "macho box".

I didn't want to see my father use violence because he was angry I wanted my father to use violence because he had enough self respect for himself to defend his body from harm. That's what I wanted to see a man so angry he divorced his wife and took the kids and left her and her crazy mother with nothing.
 
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Avniel

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I don't think he understands the stereotype he perpetuates here, which often leads men to become abusers in the first place.

By saying if someone hits a person that other person has a right to defend themselves to the best of their ability doesn't promote domestic violence it promotes hitting someone that hits you.
 
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Avniel

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All this attitude does is endorse violence in return (and beats these same men down). That's *not* an answer. Why not truly support these guys....instead of rail on them more?

That is an answer if someone hits you you hit them as hard as you can to neutralize the threat and then you leave that person alone for life.
 
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mkgal1

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Avniel, maybe if your father had used his strength against his wife she would have stopped. Maybe. But, I doubt it. A more likely end is that he gets arrested, gets a DV rap against him, loses everything and ends up having to take the most menial jobs after he gets out of the klink-- and lucky if he can get those jobs.

Right. He may have been putting his children first (which includes Avniel) and thinking of their future.
 
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Avniel

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Right. He may have been putting his children first (which includes Avniel) and thinking of their future.

My future? My entire life I was beat by a man so he could avoid getting hit himself. Nothing more and nothing less he was a coward.
 
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Inkachu

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But do you see what happens when a man expresses himself in all honesty. Do you have any idea what it's like to watch a man go from Jamaican educated bad man to the type of man that hangs his head down whenever he would go outside. I've seen my father get punched, kicked in the privates and then my mother's mom would call him and he would run from the phone. I'm not shutting down emotions I am exposing an emotion........that's sad. I used to pity my father and I hated him out of disgust not anger.

I hate that people always think that men have any emotions I sit back and talk to my boys about a lot. Men have all sorts of emotions and feelings and there are a good deal of us that share them with others. I have never met a man that was incapable of sharing their feelings other then anger. I think that's a stereotype and part of the issue. I feel anger, happiness, excitement, sadness, joy, disappointment and so many other emotions just because I am not going to cry in front of people I don't trust and don't know doesn't mean I don't feel. People want these overly sensitive men.

I think there is a movement in america to get rid of people's natural emotional response. How can you ask someone that just was hit because of some relationship spat why are you angry. A woman that get's hit wouldn't be asked why is she angry. Nobody would question why her reaction would be one of violence. If Ray Rice was a woman and her husband charged her and she dodge the first strike and slapped him and when he came back she knocked him out........................nobody would ask her why she was angry in fact she would be celebrated.

1) Is it a natural reaction to become angry when someone hits you? Are men not even allowed to become angry when they are hit by someone? What you are promoting is a society that is restrictive of emotions........if someone hits you there is a moral right you have to be angry.

2) We live in a society that accepts certain forms of violence and see's certain fairness in fighting. I don't believe in the fairness of violence the reality is a fight has a winner and looser that's it, the only rule. If I get into an altercation and I am there with 10 of my friends all 10 of them better jump in.


When ever you hit a person you are entering into a you vs them situation. When you hit someone you are placing their body at risk for harm or even death. Fighting and hitting someone isn't a light thing to do, it's not a no biggie.

Women want men in this country to have so little self respect for themselves that they don't even get angry when women hit them.

I think you make great points, Avniel, and FWIW I totally believe that any man who is abused by any woman has as much right to feel rage and resentment as any woman who is abused by a man.

For those of us who grew up in abusive households or come from abusive pasts, we have the ability to choose NOW to never live like that again. That's the best thing we can do for ourselves and our children. I will never allow my home to become one of fighting and violence. Either the violent person gets out or I get out. I won't tolerate it. Period.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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By saying if someone hits a person that other person has a right to defend themselves to the best of their ability doesn't promote domestic violence it promotes hitting someone that hits you.

As I said, you don't understand the stereotyping you're perpetuating here.

You've said more than once that you don't have respect for a guy who doesn't hit back. That's the ole "be a man" type attitude. Boys who cried were told that when they were growing up. "Grow a pair", right? Those are the boys who become abusers later on. Those are the boys who are taught that violence is the right answer.

Violence is NEVER the answer.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I think you make great points, Avniel, and FWIW I totally believe that any man who is abused by any woman has as much right to feel rage and resentment as any woman who is abused by a man.

I don't disagree with that, either.

But rage/resentment/anger doesn't have to manifest itself in hitting that person back, which is where I disagree with avniel wholeheartedly.
 
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mkgal1

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My mother often would physically abuse me..


I think for me what happened is I grew a bias to certain women. My mother would tell me as I grew older certain things that she went through and I would disqualify people based on certain situation that happened to them. My mother was sexually abused by a man that went to her church. The moment I find out anything of that nature I run from that person. My mother came from a single parent household I run from women that don't have relationships with their father. I would say I have avoided being in abusive relationships because I avoid women that have been damaged.

You realize that your biases that you describe *are* the result of "damage".....right?
 
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mkgal1

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My future? My entire life I was beat by a man so he could avoid getting hit himself. Nothing more and nothing less he was a coward.

Your entire life? You've said that you attended boarding school.....at what age did that begin?

Is your father still alive?
 
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mkgal1

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I don't disagree with that, either.

But rage/resentment/anger doesn't have to manifest itself in hitting that person back, which is where I disagree with avniel wholeheartedly.


Right.....there's even a Bible verse that one can refer to:

Be angry and do not sin~Ephesians 4:26
 
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PreachersWife2004

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The ONE TIME I hit my ex back, which was right before I got the courage to kick him out of the house, I felt HORRIBLE. Not because I hurt him. But because I let myself give in to that rage, that devil, that kept saying "you know he deserves it. You know you want to."

And I DID hurt him. Broke his jaw. Had he been smarter, he could've had me arrested and charged. He was smart with his abuse of me - it never left lasting proof.
 
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Avniel

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The ONE TIME I hit my ex back, which was right before I got the courage to kick him out of the house, I felt HORRIBLE. Not because I hurt him. But because I let myself give in to that rage, that devil, that kept saying "you know he deserves it. You know you want to."

And I DID hurt him. Broke his jaw. Had he been smarter, he could've had me arrested and charged. He was smart with his abuse of me - it never left lasting proof.

I salute you
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I salute you

no, don't. I don't want your salute. I don't want your attaboys.

I gave in to sin that day. You're cheering someone giving into the devil.
 
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Angeldove97

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no, don't. I don't want your salute. I don't want your attaboys.

I gave in to sin that day. You're cheering someone giving into the devil.

It's good that you realized it as that :thumbsup: I'm happier to know that you're out of that situation all together.
 
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Inkachu

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I don't disagree with that, either.

But rage/resentment/anger doesn't have to manifest itself in hitting that person back, which is where I disagree with avniel wholeheartedly.

I understand both sides. I understand feeling justified in defending one's self, one's family, and one's community. I also understand that allowing hatred, rage, and resentment to fester, rather than a sense of objective, rational justice, is only counter-productive.
 
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Inkachu

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You realize that your biases that you describe *are* the result of "damage".....right?

EVERYONE has been "damaged" in one way or another. There is no flawless, perfect person with NO emotional hurt in their past. The idea that ALL people who have been through a certain situation are ALL going to be "damaged" and therefore unworthy, is pathetic, lazy thinking. I know people who were abused who turned into bitter, hateful adults. I know others who were abused who rose above their pasts and broke the cycle of abuse and became admirable, wonderful people. "I" didn't have a healthy relationship with my father. "I" was a single mother. Apparently, I'm a damaged, worthless piece of garbage who isn't worth Avniel's time of day. To that I say, his ignorance will only be passed onto his children, and the cycle of ignorant bias will continue, unless he or someone in his line of descendants chooses to break it. I chose to break the cycles of guilt, abuse, and emotional dysfunction that I grew up with. My son grew up surrounded by loving, secure relationships, and now has a father who is an amazing male role model and who loves him as his own. But, apparently, since my past is what it is, and can't be changed, all the good that I've accomplished is null and void, and I should've just curled up in a corner and accepted that I was doomed to be a "damaged" woman forever, unworthy of anyone.

Excuse me while I :doh:
 
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LinkH

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That is an answer if someone hits you you hit them as hard as you can to neutralize the threat and then you leave that person alone for life.

If you could have re-written the script of what happened to your mom and dad, is that how you would have done it, have him 'neutralize' her and divorce her. If they both were to be a part of their kids life, leaving each other alone for life can't really be done. There are times to pick up the children.

Is there some other way you would have had him done things, hit her once to teach her a lesson? spank her till she stop hitting him? Pin her down? Leave the house if she started acting like that? What would you have wanted your dad to do?
 
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