Dutch Sheets?

[ARBITER01]

In addition, Arbiter, do you not once question the logic of using a video of Todd Bentley saying most of the criticism he has received has been from the Word of Faith camp as proof that he is Word of Faith?

He didn't say that his criticism was from the word of faith camp, listen to it again.

I just posted the video, people can decide for themselves.

 

[KingZzub]

Actually he did. He pointed out the irony of Word people saying that he saw too many visions and criticising him when Hagin had visions.

 

[Ariellamb]

Bicker Bicker Bicker
Move on to what is wholesome 'pls'

Build up the body of Christ,what so ever is pure what so ever is of a good report think on these things.........

 

[probinson]

Hi Pete,

"watchdog" good one

I was quoting you. You were the one who called them "watchdog" ministries.

Watchman ministries often don't even like to be called "watchman".

Many of them are teaching ministries, who dare to criticise blatant error.

Would you post an example of one of these "ministries"? EVERY watchman "ministry" site I've ever seen loudly trumpets the fact that they are "watchmen".

See, the problem I have with ministries who make it their sole purpose to criticize is that they are quite often sitting on the sidelines, doing nothing but armchair quarterbacking what is wrong with everyone (except them, of course). IOW, instead of watching themselves, they're much too concerned with everyone else.

So I would be anxious to see an example of one such ministry as you've described. It would be refreshing to see that not all watchman "ministries" are as arrogant and haughty as most of those I've seen.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Maybe something from his own mouth about who he affiliated himself with,..

Todd Bentley is Word of Faith Video

Psst......

Listen to what he says 1:15 - 1:54 - He is complaining that the Word of Faith is criticizing him.

So if I am influenced by John Wesley - does that make me a Methodist?

So if my life was impacted by Ghandi's writings - does that make me Hindu?

C'mon folks use some common sense.



Fictional conversation:

Person one: So, you've read Kenneth Hagin's books

Person two: Yes, I really liked one in particular

Person one: Well then you're WoF

Person two: No, I've never met him, and have no ministry connections to the Word of Faith, in fact they criticize me.

Person one: **sneezes**

Person two: "God Bless You"

Person one: See that proves you're Wof, you think God instantly blesses everyone.

(using bad logic to demonstrate what bad logic looks like)

 

[IchoozJC]

Actually he did. He pointed out the irony of Word people saying that he saw too many visions and criticising him when Hagin had visions.

That's not what I got from it at all. What he's saying is that His critics are saying both he and Haggin have too many visions and manifestations. He basically thinks it's silly for his critics to say that you can have too much "Jesus".

He doesn't come out and directly say I am WoF, but he's saying Haggin had one of the biggest influences on him. Guess we can all only draw our own conclusion from that.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

Not to be offensive to anyone here but how did this thread turn into another TB argument? I haven't seen anyone this polarizing in the Christian community since Jim and Tammy Faye (may she rest in peace).

Back to the OP, I was involved with a group for a short time that had swung to the apostolic/prophetic reformation wing of evangelical Christianity and went to a couple of confrences with Mr. Sheets, Mr. Pierce, Mr. Wagner and a whole host of other "apostles and prophets". I saw rather quickly that something wasn't right with the Kool-Aid.

These guys may have the best of intentions but their philosophies and belief systems definitely swing to the extreme side of scriptural interpretation (when scripture is used at all). I made my peace with the group and made like Joseph with Potiphar's wife. Since my departure I have watched with great interest as the "prophecies" of these folks fell apart like the proverbial house built on a beach. The show they put on was entertaining and educational (not in the way they intended, I'm sure) but had as much nutritional value as a fully stocked vending machine.

Just my .02. Do with it what you will.

 

[ARBITER01]

That's not what I got from it at all. What he's saying is that His critics are saying both he and Haggin have too many visions and manifestations. He basically thinks it's silly for his critics to say that you can have too much "Jesus".

He doesn't come out and directly say I am WoF, but he's saying Haggin had one of the biggest influences on him. Guess we can all only draw our own conclusion from that.

Exactly.

Personally, I think he was just a product of the wayward branch that used to be connected to the Vineyard church up in Canada, but if he wants to throw Hagin and his followers in the mix also, then that only adds confusion to things even more.

Either way, we know what we know now, but that doesn't stop all the folks that supported him in the ministry he claimed from being fooled again.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Either way, we know what we know now, but that doesn't stop all the folks that supported him in the ministry he claimed from being fooled again.

Right, as long as you know Word of Faith never supported him

 

[ARBITER01]

Right, as long as you know Word of Faith never supported him

They were the ones defending him on here and other places. Did you conveniently miss out on all of the fireworks that happened here?

For someone you claim was supposedly not their own, your fellow followers defended him vehemently. It wasn't that long ago.

 

[Simon Peter]

I was quoting you. You were the one who called them "watchdog" ministries.

No, I was quoting Ben (Kingzub) who was using the term. Please note the quotation marks I used, and please note Ben's use of the term.

It's clearly meant as a derisive term.

Would you post an example of one of these "ministries"? EVERY watchman "ministry" site I've ever seen loudly trumpets the fact that they are "watchmen".

Absolutely. Check this site out:

Birthpangs.org


peace,
Simon

 

[Simon Peter]

Originally Posted by Balance:

Right, as long as you know Word of Faith never supported him
​

Lol, as Arbiter pointed out, Bentley certainly had a lot of support from WoF on CF. That is, until recently. I don't see too much support for him on this thread.

 

[KingZzub]

No Word of Faith people support and stand on God's Word, not any minister.

 

[banish'd]

Not to be offensive to anyone here but how did this thread turn into another TB argument? I haven't seen anyone this polarizing in the Christian community since Jim and Tammy Faye (may she rest in peace).

Back to the OP, I was involved with a group for a short time that had swung to the apostolic/prophetic reformation wing of evangelical Christianity and went to a couple of confrences with Mr. Sheets, Mr. Pierce, Mr. Wagner and a whole host of other "apostles and prophets". I saw rather quickly that something wasn't right with the Kool-Aid.

These guys may have the best of intentions but their philosophies and belief systems definitely swing to the extreme side of scriptural interpretation (when scripture is used at all). I made my peace with the group and made like Joseph with Potiphar's wife. Since my departure I have watched with great interest as the "prophecies" of these folks fell apart like the proverbial house built on a beach. The show they put on was entertaining and educational (not in the way they intended, I'm sure) but had as much nutritional value as a fully stocked vending machine.

Just my .02. Do with it what you will.

Thanks Andy, for getting this thread back on topic.

 

[ARBITER01]

No Word of Faith people support and stand on God's Word, not any minister.

Maybe you personally believe that Z, but that wasn't what happened during that timeframe. They defended this guy like the liberals did/do with Obama.

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[KingZzub]

I wasn't here, but a UK forum I was on I was the one raising the concerns about the minister. It was the faith churches in Wales that were pointing out to the charismatic community that the guy was not right.

I know what Hagin would have said as well, and the love he would have said it with too.

 

[imperfectchristian]

The only reason I have ever even heard of Dutch Sheets was because the pastor of the church I was on staff at was influenced by him and held him in high regard. I do know there was some talk of the role in the modern church of Apostolic ministry right before I resigned which I didn't give much thought to at the time.

I just went to his website and you can pretty much get a feel for who he is and the way he believes by reading the statement of faith and scrolling around the website.

I know enough from visiting his website that he does not believe the way I do. That settles the matter for me.

 

[KingZzub]

You went to find out for yourself. That is exactly what should be done.

That is what I have been talking about.

 

[probinson]

Absolutely. Check this site out:

Birthpangs.org

Ah, Tricia Booth (Tillin).

 

[ARBITER01]

I wasn't here, but a UK forum I was on I was the one raising the concerns about the minister. It was the faith churches in Wales that were pointing out to the charismatic community that the guy was not right.

I know what Hagin would have said as well, and the love he would have said it with too.

It was the other way around over here. The majority of folks defending him on here were the wof folks. The scripture twisting that went on to somehow protect this guy was amazing at times.

Either way, like I said, in my opinion he is just an extension of John Abbott's church in Canada and all the unbiblical practices that it promotes.