Drop your theological errors off here...

[OrthodoxyUSA]

What prayers would it be that the saints in Revelation are receiving as incense?

Forgive me...

 

[amariselle]

What prayers would it be that the saints in Revelation are receiving as incense?

Forgive me...

I guess we don't truly understand in fullness exactly how it is in Heaven. The more important question, to start with, is are those prayers that they are recieving prayed to them, or to God?

 

[Albion]

Okay, well just so you know... catholics of all flavors disagree with you.

Forgive me...

My guess is that this comes as no surprise.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I guess we don't truly understand in fullness exactly how it is in Heaven. The more important question, to start with, is are those prayers that they are recieving prayed to them, or to God?

From the Orthodox point of view they are intercessory prayers. They intercede with Christ for us because they are closer to him.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Where do these elders get these prayers of the saints?

Rev 5:8
"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."

Why do they have them?

Forgive me...

 

[HighCherub]

I find a pretrib rapture to be far more troubling.
Waiting for God to come and take us away from trouble?

Forgive me...

Pre-trib rapture is complete nonsense, and holds no weight in traditional Protestant churches anymore than it does in your church.
So we have familiar ground there

In fact, John Calvin literally stated that such ideas are 'too childish to even deserve a rebuttal'.
Not hard to agree with that, being the very visible, intrinsically flawed premise of it altogether before even beginning to involve scripture.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Pre-trib rapture is complete nonsense, and holds no weight in traditional Protestant churches anymore than it does in your church.
So we have familiar ground there

Glad to hear it... Baptists are still doing it, at least my mother is...
I find it troubling because people who go looking for it and trouble comes and then they are asking "where is God"? Then they lose faith because they were told they would not have to experience these things.

Forgive me...

 

[HighCherub]

Glad to hear it... Baptists are still doing it, at least my mother is...
I find it troubling because people who go looking for it and trouble comes and then they are asking "where is God"? Then they lose faith because they were told they would not have to experience these things.

Forgive me...

Baptist churches aren't all the same- they don't have a solid communion like the Presbyterians or Lutherans do, and it's those 'independent' churches that get caught up in heresies like a rapture out of the blue.

'Dispensationalism' is the culprit in my opinion.

 

[JacksBratt]

I was agreeing with you about that.

Forgive me...

No worries, I just wasn't following...

 

[amariselle]

From the Orthodox point of view they are intercessory prayers. They intercede with Christ for us because they are closer to him.

Forgive me...

Okay. So how do we know this from Scripture?

 

[JacksBratt]

Drop your theological errors off here... keeping in mind that one man's "theological error" is another man's "absolute truth".

I understand what you are saying. However, if we read the scriptures in prayer.... should there be this many discrepancies?

 

[amariselle]

Where do these elders get these prayers of the saints?

Rev 5:8
"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."

Why do they have them?

Forgive me...

Obviously God ordains how things "work" in Heaven, which, in many ways is far above and beyond our understanding at this point. For me the question still remains, are those prayers prayed to the "elders" themselves, or to God?

 

[Albion]

There are some in each category. That is to say that church members direct some prayers to the saints directly while other prayers are worded so as to make them petitions for the saint to convey the appeal to the Father.

 

[JacksBratt]

Did Moses and Elijah stand before Christ in the Transfiguration event?

More evidence that saints are with Christ and not dead.

Forgive me...

These two, and Enoch, never really died. I believe Elijah was John the baptist. I believe Moses and Enoch will be the two witnesses or prophets in the tribulation..... more research needs to be done on my part though so I'm not in any case ready to defend that on even the simplest level.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Obviously God ordains how things "work" in Heaven, which, in many ways is far above and beyond our understanding at this point. For me the question still remains, are those prayers prayed to the "elders" themselves, or to God?

To God, like I said before, intercessory prayers. Asking them to speak on our behalf since they are closer to HIS altar.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

These two, and Enoch, never really died. I believe Elijah was John the baptist. I believe Moses and Enoch will be the two witnesses or prophets in the tribulation..... more research needs to be done on my part though so I'm not in any case ready to defend that on even the simplest level.

Moses died. Deuteronomy 34

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Okay. So how do we know this from Scripture?

We don't know it "because of scripture", but then the Church came first.
Orthodox Christians are not bound to "scripture only".
Forgive me...

 

[JacksBratt]

According to nothing- nobody has anything compelling to support the notion. There are statues in the oldest Protestant churches even- your idea came much later as Protestantism began to develop it's own errors.

There may be statues in many protestant churches but you will never see a knelling pad in front of it, never see anyone kneel of bow to it or kiss it. There are statues all over the place... but when you kneel and pray in front of it....it becomes worship.

Rumor has it that the priests in the Vatican kissed the feet of one statue so many times, over the centuries, that the foot had to be replaced......you be the judge.

 

[Rajni]

I understand what you are saying. However, if we read the scriptures in prayer.... should there be this many discrepancies?

I'm of the persuasion that we don't read the scriptures -- the scriptures read us.
Hence the variety; there are as many interpretations as there are hearts.

 

[JacksBratt]

Moses died. Deuteronomy 34

Forgive me...

Thanks, I stand corrected