Doubting Believer

[revrobor]

Wait a minute, I thought you said the authors of the bible didn't know how to describe Yahweh in accurate terms (you did)... but now you're saying that Yahweh inspired them to write inaccurate terms??? Odd.

By the way, speaking of ignorance, can you tell all of us what would happen if a single star were to hit Earth?

No one knows how to describe God because no one has ever seen Him (perhaps except Moses and it darn near killed him). What inaccurate terms? I am not a scientist so I don't know what effect a star crashing to Earth would have. It would probably destroy the planet. What has that to do with this discussion?

 

[BL2KTN]

No one knows how to describe God because no one has ever seen Him (perhaps except Moses and it darn near killed him).

Does Yahweh not know how to describe himself? Did Yahweh not inspire the writings of the bible?

And as for Yahweh being seen, perhaps the reverend should review the following:

And the Lord appeared unto him [Abrham] in the plains of Mamre. Genesis 18:1

And I [God] appeared unto Abraham. Exodus 6:3

And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran Acts 7:2

And the LORD appeared unto him [Isaac] the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not. Genesis 26:24

Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Genesis 32:30

And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. Genesis 35:9

And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend. Exodus 33:11

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face. Deuteronomy 34:10

Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink. Exodus 24:9-11

The Lord talked with you [the people of Israel] face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire. Deuteronomy 5:4

And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these. And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson. Judges 13:22-24

I [Micaiah] saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 1 Kings 22:19

Should I keep going?

 

[selfinflikted]

No one knows how to describe God because no one has ever seen Him (perhaps except Moses and it darn near killed him).

The point is, you, in one breath, say that no one can accurately describe god - including the Biblical authors, then in the next breath say the Biblical authors were divinely inspired to write with accuracy. You don't see the issue?

I am not a scientist so I don't know what effect a star crashing to Earth would have.

It makes me weep for humanity that anyone wouldn't know the answer to this question. Do you really think it takes a scientist to answer this simple, elementary school-level question?

It would probably destroy the planet.

Probably?!?

 

[BL2KTN]

It makes me weep for humanity that anyone wouldn't know the answer to this question. Do you really think it takes a scientist to answer this simple, elementary school-level question?

Methinks the author(s) of Revelation were similarly not scientists.

 

[selfinflikted]

Methinks the author(s) of Revelation were similarly not scientists.

Clearly.

 

[SteveB28]

We don't know WHAT God was doing before creation but I'm certain He was not just sitting around doing nothing. You need to remember He is a Spirit so we can't attribute human characteristics to Him..

You "don't know", but you are also "certain"?

And you suggest that you answered my question? Perhaps you could point it out once more - if it is possible for you to make an exception for your God and your heaven with regards to the "everything has a cause" rule, then why is it not possible for our universe to likewise enjoy that exception?

 

[commonsence]

the bible is a man made book over many centuries ( 1600 years) in all that time a lot of the moral teaching that it may had somewhere in the book were changed to benefit specific tribes and rich people.

 

[TomZzyzx]

the bible is a man made book over many centuries ( 1600 years) in all that time a lot of the moral teaching that it may had somewhere in the book were changed to benefit specific tribes and rich people.

What is your proof for this. And I'm not talking about the "man made book over many centuries" part. I'm sure you have none.

 

[dlamberth]

What has that to do with this discussion?

I was wondering that too.

.

 

[dlamberth]

Please. It's much easier on the ego to see "everyone else" as "for Satan" - it created an us vs them mentality, and that feeds the ego plus creates a needed enemy.

Well, there's that as well.

.

 

[revrobor]

Does Yahweh not know how to describe himself? Did Yahweh not inspire the writings of the bible?

And as for Yahweh being seen, perhaps the reverend should review the following:

And the Lord appeared unto him [Abrham] in the plains of Mamre. Genesis 18:1

And I [God] appeared unto Abraham. Exodus 6:3

And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran Acts 7:2

And the LORD appeared unto him [Isaac] the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not. Genesis 26:24

Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Genesis 32:30

And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. Genesis 35:9

And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend. Exodus 33:11

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face. Deuteronomy 34:10

Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink. Exodus 24:9-11

The Lord talked with you [the people of Israel] face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire. Deuteronomy 5:4

And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these. And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson. Judges 13:22-24

I [Micaiah] saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 1 Kings 22:19

Should I keep going?

This is not a thread about describing God and I've never personally been concerned about that. I've never done any research on the subject. I can, however describe His nature. He is loving and charitable and wants you and all mankind to be saved to spend eternity with Him on the new Earth.

 

[revrobor]

You "don't know", but you are also "certain"?

And you suggest that you answered my question? Perhaps you could point it out once more - if it is possible for you to make an exception for your God and your heaven with regards to the "everything has a cause" rule, then why is it not possible for our universe to likewise enjoy that exception?

Faith is a fact. The universe was created. God was not. For some reason (perhaps not wanting to answer to a higher power) you refuse to understand that there is a being who has existed forever. I have no "proof". It's a matter of faith. With that I am finished discussing this with you.

 

[revrobor]

the bible is a man made book over many centuries ( 1600 years) in all that time a lot of the moral teaching that it may had somewhere in the book were changed to benefit specific tribes and rich people.

God inspired the writers of the Bible. It was not "man made".

 

[selfinflikted]

Faith is a fact. The universe was created. God was not. For some reason (perhaps not wanting to answer to a higher power) you refuse to understand that there is a being who has existed forever. I have no "proof". It's a matter of faith. With that I am finished discussing this with you.

What you have said is a product of faith alone. There is no fact in any of this.

As an aside, why would you expect an individual to believe these things with no evidence to show for it?

 

[revrobor]

What you have said is a product of faith alone. There is no fact in any of this.

As an aside, why would you expect an individual to believe these things with no evidence to show for it?

Faith. And that is what makes these things real to a Believer. You may refuse to accept any of this but the day is coming (sooner than we may think) when you will learn your refusal will cost you dearly.

 

[dlamberth]

Faith. And that is what makes these things real to a Believer. You may refuse to accept any of this but the day is coming (sooner than we may think) when you will learn your refusal will cost you dearly.

One of my greatest blessings in life, the one that has freed me the most as a Lover of God was being freed from the images and beliefs of a Judgmental God standing at the ready to cast my soul into the pits of Hell. So for myself, it's not so much a refusal to believe that kind of stuff, it's more of my being freed from the images of God as a Judgmental God.

.

 

[selfinflikted]

Faith.

Yes, precisely what I said. I just disagree that anything you said in the prior post is "fact." Facts describe reality, reality is demonstrable. No one can demonstrate their god claims to be true. Surely you can understand why some people find it hard to believe.

And that is what makes these things real to a Believer.

Muslims would say the exact same thing. Hindus would, as well. All of you cannot be right, but you can all be wrong.

You may refuse to accept any of this but the day is coming (sooner than we may think) when you will learn your refusal will cost you dearly.

1) I don't refuse to accept what you're saying. I have a certain degree of honesty with regards to myself, and being honest, even if I wanted to accept what you say, I could not. Not without evidence. Belief cannot be achieved through will, but rather are a result of being convinced.

2) Please stop threatening non-believers like this. It's rude, makes you look bad, and comes across as completely hollow because believers have been predicting end times for the last 2,000 years. /yawn

 

[revrobor]

One of my greatest blessings in life, the one that has freed me the most as a Lover of God was being freed from the images and beliefs of a Judgmental God standing at the ready to cast my soul into the pits of Hell. So for myself, it's not so much a refusal to believe that kind of stuff, it's more of my being freed from the images of God as a Judgmental God.

.

He is indeed judgmental. But as long as you are His child you don't have to concern yourself with His judgements. He is also loving and gives mankind every chance He can.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Methinks the author(s) of Revelation were similarly not scientists.

I once heard that the gentleman who wrote revelations came from an Island known to have hallucinogenic mushrooms.

EDIT: John of Patmos wrote revelations.

Patmos, and neighbouring Kos, have hallucinogenic mushrooms.

The effects of some hallucinogenic mushrooms are very similar to LSD.

 

[selfinflikted]

He is indeed judgmental. But as long as you are His child you don't have to concern yourself with His judgements. He is also loving and gives mankind every chance He can.

Oddly enough - loving, judgemental - each one a human quality, which you claim god does not possess.