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Doubting Believer

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Jocenel7

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I've been Pentecostal for awhile. My husband believes in God, but not the Bible. I'm starting to wonder about what the Bible says. I don't understand how my husband and his friend believe in Jesus, but they don't believe in other parts of the Bible Mat 19:4-6 (marriage man and woman) , Deu 22:5 (A woman shouldn't wear a mans clothing and vice versa. How can they believe they don't have to listen to all these other verses in the Bible, but still believe in Jesus? They think the bible doesn't apply to this time, is written by others and outdated. I tried searching and showing how some of the dead sea scrolls match up with some of the Bible.

Looking for more support that everything in the Bible applies to us today and is the actual word of God.
 

jacknife

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I think a lot of people really pick and choose their bible parts. And no one really follows the OT. btw your in a section where non-believers like me are allowed to comment. E: perhaps interpretation is a better word then pick and choose.
 
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ThinkForYourself

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No Christian believes in the entire bible, OT or NT. If they did, they would almost certainly be in jail for stoning someone to death, keeping slaves, or something.

There have been studies of the brain conducted where parts of the brain related to self and other were studied.

When a Christian was asked what they thought of something, Part A (self) of the Christian's brain lit up.

When a Christian was asked what their friend Joe thought of something, Part B (other) of the Christian's brain lit up.

When a Christian was asked what Jesus thought of something, Part A (self) lit up.


Christians believe in all those parts of the bible that they agree with, but interpret (ignore) the parts they don't agree with.

For instance, how many Christians work on the Sabbath?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I've been Pentecostal for awhile. My husband believes in God, but not the Bible. I'm starting to wonder about what the Bible says. I don't understand how my husband and his friend believe in Jesus, but they don't believe in other parts of the Bible Mat 19:4-6 (marriage man and woman) , Deu 22:5 (A woman shouldn't wear a mans clothing and vice versa. How can they believe they don't have to listen to all these other verses in the Bible, but still believe in Jesus? They think the bible doesn't apply to this time, is written by others and outdated. I tried searching and showing how some of the dead sea scrolls match up with some of the Bible.

Looking for more support that everything in the Bible applies to us today and is the actual word of God.

Paul's letter to the Hebrews explains a lot about the old covenant. For many it's a very great leap to abandon many of the old covenant laws, statutes, and judgments. A good question for you would be, can law and grace co-exist in the church today?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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No Christian believes in the entire bible, OT or NT. If they did, they would almost certainly be in jail for stoning someone to death, keeping slaves, or something.

There have been studies of the brain conducted where parts of the brain related to self and other were studied.

When a Christian was asked what they thought of something, Part A (self) of the Christian's brain lit up.

When a Christian was asked what their friend Joe thought of something, Part B (other) of the Christian's brain lit up.

When a Christian was asked what Jesus thought of something, Part A (self) lit up.


Christians believe in all those parts of the bible that they agree with, but ignore the parts they don't agree with.

For instance, how many Christians work on the Sabbath?

It's more a question of understanding than belief. For example I believe that stoning was indeed a punishment in ancient Israel, but I understand that that ordinance was done away by the new covenant.
 
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ThinkForYourself

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I've been Pentecostal for awhile. My husband believes in God, but not the Bible. I'm starting to wonder about what the Bible says. I don't understand how my husband and his friend believe in Jesus, but they don't believe in other parts of the Bible Mat 19:4-6 (marriage man and woman) , Deu 22:5 (A woman shouldn't wear a mans clothing and vice versa. How can they believe they don't have to listen to all these other verses in the Bible, but still believe in Jesus? They think the bible doesn't apply to this time, is written by others and outdated. I tried searching and showing how some of the dead sea scrolls match up with some of the Bible.

Looking for more support that everything in the Bible applies to us today and is the actual word of God.

Hi jocenel.

After reading your post more carefully, I'm not sure that you are aware of what is actually in the bible. Did you know:

1. Jesus said all the OT laws still apply (Matthew 5:18)

2. You should stone to death an unruly child (Deutronomy 21:18-21)

3. Adulterers should be stoned to death (Leviticus 20:10)

4. You should stone to death someone who picks up a stick on the Sabbath (Number 15:32-36)

There's lots more, but as you can see, you can't follow the bible completely without ending up in jail.
 
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ThinkForYourself

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It's more a question of understanding than belief. For example I believe that stoning was indeed a punishment in ancient Israel, but I understand that that ordinance was done away by the new covenant.

Jesus specifically said:

Matthew 5:18
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."


So you are wrong. The OT laws still apply.

Or are you saying Jesus lied or didn't know what he was talking about? And what about the 10 commandments? Do those no longer apply?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Jesus specifically said:

Matthew 5:18
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."


So you are wrong. The OT laws still apply.

And when he died he said, "It is finished"; read accomplished.

Or are you saying Jesus lied or didn't know what he was talking about?
I'm saying that I know what he was talking about.

And what about the 10 commandments? Do those no longer apply?

The commandments, as most (mis)understand them, are not in force, or enforced, today.
 
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ThinkForYourself

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And when he died he said, "It is finished"; read accomplished.

It says "until heaven and earth pass away..." so to read "accomplished", as in Matthew 5:18 is accomplished and no longer valid, is obviously wishful thinking, or do you wish to claim the earth and heavens have passed away?


As I said to the OP, Christians believe the bible is God's word when they agree with it, and interpret (ignore) it when they don't. That's why there are tens of thousands of denominations of Christianity.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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It says "until heaven and earth pass away..." so to read "accomplished", as in Matthew 5:18 is accomplished and no longer valid, is obviously wishful thinking, or do you wish to claim the earth and heavens have passed away?

The greater plan of God won't be finished until the heavens and the earth do pass away, but Jesus death accomplished what the old covenant intended to accomplish in Israel. Paul explains it all in Hebrews. We are in the 'last days' dispensation. Israel no longer exists, therefore the laws governing Israel are no longer in force. Will they be during the millennial rule of Christ? Perhaps, but for now they are certainly suspended.

As I said to the OP, Christians believe the bible is God's word when they agree with it, and interpret (ignore) it when they don't. That's why there are tens of thousands of denominations of Christianity.

There is lots of room for different interpretations, without serious disagreement. There are deeper levels of understanding as well.
 
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FireDragon76

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There is lots of room for different interpretations, without serious disagreement. There are deeper levels of understanding as well.

Yup... it has to do with what hermeneutics we apply to the text. It's not as simple as following some passages and ignoring others.
 
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DMX

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Paul's letter to the Hebrews explains a lot about the old covenant. For many it's a very great leap to abandon many of the old covenant laws, statutes, and judgments. A good question for you would be, can law and grace co-exist in the church today?
The same book of Hebrews shows us how the old covenant not only served its purpose, but also how the laws and other representations were types and shadows of things to come. All of which were fulfilled in the NT, i.e. the finished work of Christ. Therefore, why should law and grace co-exist when we are living in the dispensation of grace? Isn't that like trying to walk with our feet tied?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The same book of Hebrews shows us how the old covenant not only served its purpose, but also how the laws and other representations were types and shadows of things to come. All of which were fulfilled in the NT, i.e. the finished work of Christ. Therefore, why should law and grace co-exist when we are living in the dispensation of grace? Isn't that like trying to walk with our feet tied?

Exactly. :thumbsup:
 
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BL2KTN

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I suppose that makes Strathos a dolphin.

Even if you take the ridiculous position that Jesus believed his death ended the old covenant, you still have to accept that for 4,000 years before (according to the bible's woefully incorrect history of the world) ol' Yahweh though and commanded you beat someone to death with rocks if they lift a stick on a certain day.

"But, but, but, Yahweh got it right in the last 2,000 years!"

Yes, because in the New Testament he got tired of beating people with rocks until they died, so he invented hell for the first time, where he gets to burn people for a trillion years in a punishment so awful Hitler couldn't have imagined it.
 
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ethicsguy

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Perhaps it would be beneficial for you to expand your knowledge about the Bible instead of your knowledge of the Bible itself. Most religious scholars suggest that the Bible is a book intended to help the believer to guide and mold their faith. Most agree it is not a book where every word is accurate (the Bible, for instance, contradicts itself quite often). The professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina, Bart D. Ehrman, has written two books (amongst others) that may be very helpful to you. They elucidate to the non scholar audience facts that assist the reader in obtaining a better grasp in their Bibical interpretation arena. The texts are not written to destroy your faith in any way. They simply aid the reader in interpretating their religion in a fuller, richer, way. Following the Bible without knowing about the Bible can be a more confusing world.
 
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glendaMarie

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No Christian believes in the entire bible, OT or NT. If they did, they would almost certainly be in jail for stoning someone to death, keeping slaves, or something.

hi! :) ..not if they know the old testament laws were for tiny Israel for a place a little prepared for the birth of Messiah.. and of course, slavery as institution was a form of loans and debt to pay that loan, and all forgiven every 7 years.. and of course stoning was a community event not individual :)

There have been studies of the brain conducted where parts of the brain related to self and other were studied.

When a Christian was asked what they thought of something, Part A (self) of the Christian's brain lit up.

When a Christian was asked what their friend Joe thought of something, Part B (other) of the Christian's brain lit up.

When a Christian was asked what Jesus thought of something, Part A (self) lit up.

Christians believe in all those parts of the bible that they agree with, but interpret (ignore) the parts they don't agree with.

Very interesting! and a great reason why christians should always read, read, read God's Word so we can be "renewed in the spirit of our mind"
For instance, how many Christians work on the Sabbath?

Your user name reminds me of this verse "let each one be fully persuaded in their own-mind" :cool:
 
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jacknife

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hi! :) ..not if they know the old testament laws were for tiny Israel for a place a little prepared for the birth of Messiah.. and of course, slavery as institution was a form of loans and debt to pay that loan, and all forgiven every 7 years.. and of course stoning was a community event not individual :)



Very interesting! and a great reason why christians should always read, read, read God's Word so we can be "renewed in the spirit of our mind"


Your user name reminds me of this verse "let each one be fully persuaded in their own-mind" :cool:
you may want to read Leviticus 25:46 "46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
 
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glendaMarie

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I suppose that makes Strathos a dolphin.

Even if you take the ridiculous position that Jesus believed his death ended the old covenant, you still have to accept that for 4,000 years before (according to the bible's woefully incorrect history of the world) ol' Yahweh though and commanded you beat someone to death with rocks if they lift a stick on a certain day.

"But, but, but, Yahweh got it right in the last 2,000 years!"

Yes, because in the New Testament he got tired of beating people with rocks until they died, so he invented hell for the first time, where he gets to burn people for a trillion years in a punishment so awful Hitler couldn't have imagined it.

.."in the beginning, God.."
If God is life (who, what else could be?) He is also perfection - or he too would fade. To be imperfect is to be the opposite of life, therefor the rescue needed, and one tiny nation separated (by "the law") to be somewhat prepared for the birth of the Messiah (as opposed to coming in the midst of tree worshipers or something).

Man's understanding of the Bible is flawed, the Bible is not, except in one or possibly two mistranslations - 'hell' should read "the grave" as YHVH said "dust thou art" and it was the adversary who said "surely you won't die?"

Mankind's choices ar being let to run their course, and like God is saying, you cannot do such and such, to do such leads to nonlife, so why would you do it? Imperfection cannot reverse its course into perfection/life, being imperfect. But Jesus said "If I be lifted up from the earth I will draw all to me".. 1 tim 4:10 says "God is the savior of all".

Sabbath represents resting in the finished work of Jesus, if we try to save ourselves, self improvement, etc, as opposed to "Christ in you" and "grace" it still leads to death.. i.e., doesn't work. Hence the all important type and shadow of do no work on the sabbath..

God gave life, and eternal life in what will be an un-breakable paradise, for all will know good from evil / life from death,nonlife.. turning away from YHVH can only ever end in a self destructive wisp of smoke.. He made all things and can do with them whatever he wants. And what He wants is "all to be saved" (rescued from death and all that results in it. And "who can prevent His will?"

Over 2000 years of being passed down thru human hands, and made up of humans, christianity has lost some of the glory of its message aNd picked up some baggage along the way. But the Bible, in the original language(s) spoken, is perfect. "All the ends of the earth will turn to the LORD and aLL families will rejoice before Him" ps 22:27. .."all in their proper order, Christ the first(fruits), then we who are His at His return, then when He delivers the kingdom to the Father" after the age of judgment, at the conclusion of, will be said, those (still) not believing (and still in their sins/imperfection) will go to the 2nd death.
God bless! :wave:
 
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R

RichGSr

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Jocenel7,
There are many who believe everything in Scripture, yet we have some things added.
Laws, as laws were made, people …made life easier for people to live together. They change a little here and a little there, like kicking God out "they" did it very slowly.
I was saved in an Assembly of God Church, Waterbury Ct. Pastor Ambrose said "they in Springfield say you can lose your salvation; not here !" I've been in a lot of churches since (73 yrs old) .


Look at the O T.
There were consequences for sin (not following God’s directives).
After crossing into Jericho and winning a decisive battle Joshua let himself be fooled by some kings who dressed in rags, and said we’re from a faraway land, he did not listen to God…he made a deal that Israel would not kill every person, (men, women & children and their cattle etc) then they had to live with the consequences. Compare these with those who they had to live with afterwards. They were distracted from God.
(There may be more)
Caleb was another.
Look at the Judges; Saul was told to clean house too; any resemblance of Philistines and the Palestinians?

Do you read Scripture fifteen minutes each day?
If you do; you will average reading it once each year; all 66 books.
Then there are other things; my wife lived in a virtual hell because she married someone who was not a Christian; then I got saved at 28 years old. Pray for your Husband fervently…don’t try to force him.
I could go on and on; but …in Church? a Bible believing Church? Study the word to see these things are true.
Seek God’s face, with fear and trembling.


I've been Pentecostal for awhile. My husband believes in God, but not the Bible. I'm starting to wonder about what the Bible says. I don't understand how my husband and his friend believe in Jesus, but they don't believe in other parts of the Bible Mat 19:4-6 (marriage man and woman) , Deu 22:5 (A woman shouldn't wear a mans clothing and vice versa. How can they believe they don't have to listen to all these other verses in the Bible, but still believe in Jesus? They think the bible doesn't apply to this time, is written by others and outdated. I tried searching and showing how some of the dead sea scrolls match up with some of the Bible.

Looking for more support that everything in the Bible applies to us today and is the actual word of God.
 
Upvote 0