Double Imputation?

[Colter]

Sometimes Justification is thought and taught in terms of "double imputation". I have even usually thought this way until this question came to mind. Double imputation is the idea that Jesus' righteousness is imputed to believers (they get his righteous record credited to their account) and believers righteousness is imputed to Jesus (he gets the sin of sinners credited to his account and pays for it). On the whole, I think this is fine. But I wonder if it's imprecise.

The Westminster Confession of Faith puts it like this:

That in justification, God has "...[imputed] the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them..." (WCF 11.1).

That is to say, that the righteousness of Jesus and the death of Jesus has been imputed to believers. So, in the eyes of God, believers have in their account:

1. A perfectly righteous record. This merits for them heaven.
2. A death that atones for their sin.

But according to this understanding it would appear that the sins of believers are not imputed to Christ.

What's the deal?

These old ideas are left over from the notion that God is a supreme bookkeeper who delights in finding faults with his creation.

God is a Living heavenly Father, we are each sons of God.

Jesus never taught that man was born into sin debt, that a ransom must be paid. At least not in the original gospel that he had hoped the Jews would accept.

Those of us who have children know what parental Love is like.

 

[fhansen]

True, but one does not receive Him do you think that is not coming with a sincere heart known by God. Those who come for any other pretense or reason are not fooling Him and therefore would not come into the family by adoption. All the promises of God are for believers, and His imputation of righteousness is eternal. Does not scripture say that the believer after hearing the word of God believed on Him and were sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption? Eph 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Did He not buy us at Calvary, and pay the redemption for our inheritance? Is this passage not true? God knows every heart as I am sure you agree, why would He say He sealed us with the Holy Spirit as our guarantee until the redemption if it were not until the redemption of His purchased possession. 1 Cor 6:19-20 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

I honestly think that the best image to understand this with, from the human perspective, is the Parable of the Sower. The farmer scatters seed, the Word/grace, and we, the soil, react as we will, some seed not taking root, some taking root but later dying, some taking root and producing gobs of fruit. In this way we avoid putting the cart ahead of the horse, we don't profess to know what we can't know for sure, to decide with certainty who's saved and who isn't, how much or little our wills play; we let God sort all that out and judge accordingly. We're just expected to do the best we can with what we're given-and leave the rest to Him.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

I honestly think that the best image to understand this with, from the human perspective, is the Parable of the Sower. The farmer scatters seed, the Word/grace, and we react as we will, some seed not taking root, some taking root but later dying, some taking root and producing gobs of fruit. In this way we avoid putting the cart ahead of the horse, we don't profess to know what we can't know, to decide with certainty who's saved and who isn't; we let God sort all that out and judge accordingly. We're just expected to do the best we can with what we're given-and leave the rest to Him.

Not knowing exactly your conclusions here, but if as in the parable there is only one seed that fell on good soil and produced fruit, what do believe happened to the others, were they ever saved? I will tell you my understanding on this parable, only the one that fell on good soil was converted and became a child of God. This is my point in one of my other post, can't remember which one right at this moment, nevertheless, God know who He gives the Holy Spirit to, and He only gives Him to the ones that come on His terms and when they are sealed, He will be transforming them into the image of His Son, Jesus. He declared that before the foundation of the world was laid. I posted those text and verses before. Too many people seem to believe that God sealed those who later apostasy, that would mean to me that He did not know that they were going to leave the faith, I don't believe that at all. Whom He seals is just as it says it scripture, unto the day of redemption. He is holding on to the saints not the other way around. Ps 37:23-24 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, And He delights in his way. 24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the Lord upholds him with His hand. Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.” Always remembering, without Me(Jesus) you can do nothing. I will never leave you, nor forsake you.

 

[Oldmantook]

You thought right, 2 Cor 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. That is why the saved are called saints, those set apart, made holy in Christ. He is our righteousness and thus has set us free from the law of sin and death, Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Notice carefully no condemnation, why, v2 for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. V4 He condemned sin in the flesh that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. It is His working in us and placing in us His purpose for us and that is transforming the called ones into the image of His dear Son. This is why we are called saints, set apart ones, Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. Think about it, v28 if all things work together for good to those who are the called according to His purpose, how can sin be imputed to our account, He paid the sin debt, 2Cor5:21 above. That is exactly what scripture says in Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin. Impute, to reckon or charge to ones account. As in Rom 8:2-3 He freed us from the law of sin and death, those in Christ. Reading the words we see what it says, naysayers are the ones who read into the word, words that are not there, His word does not return unto Him void. Have a great day, as I said, you thought right, it was Christ's righteousness imputed at the cross to all who receive Him.

For clarification, do you mean to say that Christ's righteousness was automatically imputed to us upon being born again and there is nothing else that we should do to be reckoned as righteous?

 

[fhansen]

Not knowing exactly your conclusions here, but if as in the parable there is only one seed that fell on good soil and produced fruit, what do believe happened to the others, were they ever saved? I will tell you my understanding on this parable, only the one that fell on good soil was converted and became a child of God. This is my point in one of my other post, can't remember which one right at this moment, nevertheless, God know who He gives the Holy Spirit to, and He only gives Him to the ones that come on His terms and when they are sealed, He will be transforming them into the image of His Son, Jesus. He declared that before the foundation of the world was laid. I posted those text and verses before. Too many people seem to believe that God sealed those who later apostasy, that would mean to me that He did not know that they were going to leave the faith, I don't believe that at all. Whom He seals is just as it says it scripture, unto the day of redemption. He is holding on to the saints not the other way around. Ps 37:23-24 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, And He delights in his way. 24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the Lord upholds him with His hand. Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.” Always remembering, without Me(Jesus) you can do nothing. I will never leave you, nor forsake you.

From my perspective we can't know with 100% certainty who will end up being good soil. What defines good fruit? Will the plant fail in the end, or persevere? We do know that some will believe, even taste of the heavenly gift, but then fall away. Or count themselves as God's children only to find out later that they're not. Or the possibility of being branches grafted in but later cut off. These and other admonitions, to believers, are made throughout the New Testament. Consequently election becomes a rather academic subject. The elect will certainly be saved but God wisely leaves us at least to some extent in the dark as to just who they are, even as He wants us to be assured that we should be saved so long as we remain in His will.

 

[Oldmantook]

2 Corinthians 5:21 — For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Romans 4:24 — But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Romans 5:17 — For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

The scriptures don't agree with your take on the matter. Righteousness is an imputed gift that comes by faith rather than obedience (though obedience is part of repentance). Jesus was made to be sin for us. Sin is not taken away because we stop sinning (though we should, of course, stop sinning, as other scriptures also attest). Righteousness is not declared of us because we have been taught correctly or corrected of contrary behavior (though we should, of course, learn correctly and accept correction if we are behaving unrighteously). We are declared righteous because we have faith (Romans 4:24). Our sin was taken away because God laid our sins upon his servant, who bore our iniquity (Isaiah 53:4-12).

Lots of people read these forums. In the interest of not leading people astray with incorrect doctrine, be mindful what you say.

Respectfully, it works both ways as perhaps - just perhaps, your doctrine might be incorrect. We are all but fallible creatures so you or I could be mistaken about something at any given time. Having said that how would you address my post #13 which differs from your view?

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

For clarification, do you mean to say that Christ's righteousness was automatically imputed to us upon being born again and there is nothing else that we should do to be reckoned as righteous?

Half of what you say is what I am saying, for clarification I do mean that Christ's righteousness was imputed to every believer that was indeed born again and following conversion the scripture teach that we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works. The saints can do nothing to add more righteousness that we get from the Lord because He has nothing within the Godhead that is not fully righteous. What we do is walk in His righteousness and that is demonstrated by a holy walk and obedience, of course saying that, a holy walk and obedience are probably the same thing. How would you say that a saint would be able to add something to the righteousness of Christ?

I do not think we add any righteousness to His, but I take it this way as in 1John2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

As I understand it we're forgiven and cleansed as we respond in faith, a free gift that we accept, but then we're also expected to remain and walk in that cleanness. From there on the Parable of the Talents gives a good description of what we're expected to do with the gifts given with whatever time and opportunities we have, and what will happen if we refuse-and bury them. It's a walk, a package deal, that we work out with He who works in us.

Walking in the spirit rather than walking in flesh. Agree. What has been imputed is a new nature. What is taken from us is sin nature. So walking in a new nature when it conflicts with the old nature that's still being carried about in the flesh is the dilemma. Any talent from the old nature still needs to be consecrated to be used by Him because our goodness still isn't good enough.

 

[FireDragon76]

I honestly think that the best image to understand this with, from the human perspective, is the Parable of the Sower. The farmer scatters seed, the Word/grace, and we, the soil, react as we will, some seed not taking root, some taking root but later dying, some taking root and producing gobs of fruit. In this way we avoid putting the cart ahead of the horse, we don't profess to know what we can't know for sure, to decide with certainty who's saved and who isn't, how much or little our wills play; we let God sort all that out and judge accordingly. We're just expected to do the best we can with what we're given-and leave the rest to Him.

If you can't give anyone assurance they are saved, why bother preaching? Why bother even going to church?

I think its easy to miss sight of Luther's protest. If religion is nothing but vague hopes of heaven combined with demands on ones conscience, that can get very tiring very fast.

For clarification, do you mean to say that Christ's righteousness was automatically imputed to us upon being born again and there is nothing else that we should do to be reckoned as righteous?

Nothing you do can compel God to reckon you as righteous, except in his mercy, for Christ sake, he reckons you as so.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

From my perspective we can't know with 100% certainty who will end up being good soil. What defines good fruit? Will the plant fail in the end, or persevere? We do know that some will believe, even taste of the heavenly gift, but then fall away. Or count themselves as God's children only to find out later that they're not. Or the possibility of being branches grafted in but later cut off. These and other admonitions, to believers, are made throughout the New Testament. Consequently election becomes a rather academic subject. The elect will certainly be saved but God wisely leaves us at least to some extent in the dark as to just who they are, even as He wants us to be assured that we should be saved so long as we remain in His will.

I appreciate that you said from your perspective, but not boasting by any means, that is not my perspective nor do I see that taught in scripture. If one cannot tell that God is working in their life is beyond my perspective, for we walk by faith and not by sight, and when I came to the Lord at the age of 32 1/2 years old, not knowing the scripture but later learning it, I saw that the new creation in Christ was indeed in my heart and my thoughts. Later I learned the it was Him working in me to will and to do of His good pleasure, Phil 2:13. My wants me to be changed and He began to transform my desires to do His will and to share the gospel to others. Hate and selfishness was replaced by His love coming to me and through me to want to do good to others and not mistreat them. I began to look out not only for my own interest but also for the interest of others. As I read and hid His word in my heart I could see Him transforming my mind and my walk into the image of Jesus and everything that I do that has merit is because of Him placing His righteousness and holiness into me. That is why I agree with Paul and what he said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in Phil 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ Everyone in the family of God can have this same confidence, know you meant what you said when you ask Him into your heart and believe Him. Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for those that come to Him must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.

As far as the branches in John 15, it seems to me that He is saying that one can know whether they are the branches bearing fruit or the ones that don't bear fruit and will be thrown in the fire, after all, He said in verse 5 without Me, you can do nothing, v8 herein is my Father glorified that you bear much fruit. Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. These are the evidence of a new birth and all come from Him and His working in us to do His good pleasure.

 

[fhansen]

I appreciate that you said from your perspective, but not boasting by any means, that is not my perspective nor do I see that taught in scripture. If one cannot tell that God is working in their life is beyond my perspective, for we walk by faith and not by sight, and when I came to the Lord at the age of 32 1/2 years old, not knowing the scripture but later learning it, I saw that the new creation in Christ was indeed in my heart and my thoughts. Later I learned the it was Him working in me to will and to do of His good pleasure, Phil 2:13. My wants me to be changed and He began to transform my desires to do His will and to share the gospel to others. Hate and selfishness was replaced by His love coming to me and through me to want to do good to others and not mistreat them. I began to look out not only for my own interest but also for the interest of others. As I read and hid His word in my heart I could see Him transforming my mind and my walk into the image of Jesus and everything that I do that has merit is because of Him placing His righteousness and holiness into me. That is why I agree with Paul and what he said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in Phil 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ Everyone in the family of God can have this same confidence, know you meant what you said when you ask Him into your heart and believe Him. Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for those that come to Him must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.

As far as the branches in John 15, it seems to me that He is saying that one can know whether they are the branches bearing fruit or the ones that don't bear fruit and will be thrown in the fire, after all, He said in verse 5 without Me, you can do nothing, v8 herein is my Father glorified that you bear much fruit. Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. These are the evidence of a new birth and all come from Him and His working in us to do His good pleasure.

And yet Paul, himself, said in Phil 3 that he had not yet achieved eternal life, but was striving towards it. The saints had always considered this to be a goal, a cooperative effort, 100% certain only in the end when we meet our Lord. Humility alone, in light of our human weaknesses and limitations along with our inability to know the future of our own lives demands this position IMO. And Scripture supports this thoroughly, warning followers to keep following, to remain in the Spirit, in Christ, remain faithful, keep oil in their lamps, invest their talents, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, keep Christ's commandments, love each other, be perfect, be holy and pure of heart, without which no one will see the Lord, etc etc. To the extent that we do these things -and keep doing them-we can continue to have assurance. But in the end God alone knows perfectly whose names are written in the Book of life and whose are not.

 

[redleghunter]

I honestly think that the best image to understand this with, from the human perspective, is the Parable of the Sower. The farmer scatters seed, the Word/grace, and we, the soil, react as we will, some seed not taking root, some taking root but later dying, some taking root and producing gobs of fruit. In this way we avoid putting the cart ahead of the horse, we don't profess to know what we can't know for sure, to decide with certainty who's saved and who isn't, how much or little our wills play; we let God sort all that out and judge accordingly. We're just expected to do the best we can with what we're given-and leave the rest to Him.

Only the good soil produced a harvest. Not understanding "react as we will" in your statement.

 

[redleghunter]

Not knowing exactly your conclusions here, but if as in the parable there is only one seed that fell on good soil and produced fruit, what do believe happened to the others, were they ever saved? I will tell you my understanding on this parable, only the one that fell on good soil was converted and became a child of God.

Yes. The difference between 'general call' and 'effectual call.'

 

[fhansen]

Only the good soil produced a harvest. Not understanding "react as we will" in your statement.

Good soil wills rightly-and continues to.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I think they are all saved because they all received the incorruptable seed. Being w/o root, downtrodden or plucked up by the birds in the high trees just means they are at a loss for rewards.

 

[Michael Scaman]

Sometimes Justification is thought and taught in terms of "double imputation". I have even usually thought this way until this question came to mind. Double imputation is the idea that Jesus' righteousness is imputed to believers (they get his righteous record credited to their account) and believers righteousness is imputed to Jesus (he gets the sin of sinners credited to his account and pays for it). On the whole, I think this is fine. But I wonder if it's imprecise.

The Westminster Confession of Faith puts it like this:

That in justification, God has "...[imputed] the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them..." (WCF 11.1).

That is to say, that the righteousness of Jesus and the death of Jesus has been imputed to believers. So, in the eyes of God, believers have in their account:

1. A perfectly righteous record. This merits for them heaven.
2. A death that atones for their sin.

But according to this understanding it would appear that the sins of believers are not imputed to Christ.

What's the deal?

I think double imputation is necessary. A clean slate leaves one still with nothing but the Bible promises God will 'wrap you in robes of righteousness'

 

[Vicomte13]

I thought it was "active and passive righteousness"?

The difference between Lutherans and Reformed is that Reformed at times do seem to suggest that human beings could merit heaven by fulfilling the law, if they could only do so perfectly.

This theology is very much influenced by the Greco-Roman worldview, especially their philosophical notions of justice. Justice as existing as a pure abstraction, apart from any concrete act, would be difficult for Jews to conceptualize.

There is so very much in what you wrote here that I want to unpack and discuss, because there are at least five crucial points in it that mark the differences from my own religion and what I perceive to be the religions of many (most?) others on this site. But to do that would be hijacking the OP's question. Can I send you a separate chat (or whatever it's called)?

 

[redleghunter]

Good soil wills rightly-and continues to.

Right, that's why good soil produces. Who makes each type of soil?

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

And yet Paul, himself, said in Phil 3 that he had not yet achieved eternal life, but was striving towards it. The saints had always considered this to be a goal, a cooperative effort, 100% certain only in the end when we meet our Lord. Humility alone, in light of our human weaknesses and limitations along with our inability to know the future of our own lives demands this position IMO. And Scripture supports this thoroughly, warning followers to keep following, to remain in the Spirit, in Christ, remain faithful, keep oil in their lamps, invest their talents, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, keep Christ's commandments, love each other, be perfect, be holy and pure of heart, without which no one will see the Lord, etc etc. To the extent that we do these things -and keep doing them-we can continue to have assurance. But in the end God alone knows perfectly whose names are written in the Book of life and whose are not.

I already showed you Phil 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; and you are now telling me that by the third chapter he lost that confidence! Surely you don't believe that Why not show me the verse that said he had not obtained eternal life, my translation don't seem to have that verse, are you sure it said he had not obtained eternal life or did you insert that he had not obtained eternal life? Some saints may have considered, but I can assure you that millions and millions of them have not considered it at all. Neither does scripture, even John 3:16 which most know by heart say For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. The other parts that you state are your interpretation not mine nor what scripture teaches at all. 1 John3:1-3 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God!Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. Notice it says that everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. You can have this hope, but if you don't, it doesn't nullify that millions of other saints aren't already rejoicing in it.

You keep going to your reasoning that saints must continue on in the faith, I agree with that and have not read anyone that would disagree with the perseverance of the saints.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

I think they are all saved because they all received the incorruptable seed. Being w/o root, downtrodden or plucked up by the birds in the high trees just means they are at a loss for rewards.

Everyone who hears the word of God, which is the seed, but I doubt if you really believed that everyone who hears it gets saved. Good soil means it bore fruit. There is an old saying, no fruit, no root, only those attached to the vine bear good fruit, the fruitless branches were cut off and thrown into the fire.