Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[Grip Docility]

Again you apply the word sanctification to growth in grace and knowledge.
If you have been cleansed you are sanctified.
Were you not cleansed?

It seems you can see that sanctification means "cleanse", and the verse above shows it was already done.

Please forgive me... but I know that only Jesus Christ is perfect in the literal Flesh.

There is a note of unspoken honesty, in my opinion, in the back and forth of the claims of sinless doctrine.

 

[Phil W]

I never said anything about giving yourself permission in committing willful sexual sin or weaning yourself off of committing willful sexual sin gradually or turning the grace of God into licentiousness. That is a straw man argument. To abstain from sexual immorality is in the present tense and possessing his own vessel in sanctification and honor is an ongoing process of effort in restraining oneself from sexual sin and is not a one time event. The temptation to commit sexual sin doesn't just automatically go away and even having lustful thoughts is sexual sin.

Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness. The process of becoming more and more like Christ is in regards to ongoing sanctification. There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get mixed up by those who teach works righteousness. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

If a person commits sin, they are neither sanctified or justified and will not be glorified.
The sin manifests that they are not of God's seed, so not reborn.
It is written..." And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Sinning denies that the flesh, it's vile affections, or it's lusts have been crucified.

 

[Wordkeeper]

It seems you can see that sanctification means "cleanse", and the verse above shows it was already done.

The group known as the People of God, the Temple, The Body of Christ, has been cleansed once for all, by the blood of Christ, which the blood of bulls and goats were unable to do. This explains the "once for all" description.

We cannot be blessings to the world unless we are IN the invisible Church, the Body of Christ. In order to be in the Church, we must be made holy, set apart for the Master's use, for which sinlessness is not required, only grace. It is sufficient, and received by being obedient, by con fessing, agreeing we have sin, and being considered clean.

 

[Grip Docility]

If a person commits sin, they are neither sanctified or justified and will not be glorified.
The sin manifests that they are not of God's seed, so not reborn.
It is written..." And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Sinning denies that the flesh, it's vile affections, or it's lusts have been crucified.

Sin is charged by the Law, and the Law’s charges against us were Crucified in God’s flesh.

You are declaring the blood of God, ineffectual and simultaneously denying the believers need for Jesus.

You are essentially stating that Jesus didn’t die for sinners. Paul literally declares While we were yet sinners and your counter argument was to say Jesus was crucified before our lifespan.

If you think the Blood Of God is BOUND to TIME, I suggest you reread Hebrews.

This sinless doctrine is literally the purest form of deceit.

This is beginning to become an obvious declaration of man’s need to impute the Law back into effect... when Paul states the Law shows our need for Jesus...

You can’t say the Law of Moses is removed from the equation, then follow with imputed sin of the Law of Moses... declares a Believer unsaved... and mark my word... there is no New Covenant revival of Moses... .

 

[Phil W]

Please forgive me... but I know that only Jesus Christ is perfect in the literal Flesh.

He was the first...but not the last.

There is a note of unspoken honesty, in my opinion, in the back and forth of the claims of sinless doctrine.

It is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)

 

[Grip Docility]

He was the first...but not the last.


It is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)

Correction... He is the First and the Last.

This doctrine has exalted Law above Grace. In this... it has exalted Moses as more powerful than Jesus Christ.

It is now plain. It is ignoring verses that speak of repentance of the human heart and exalting verses that exalt your flesh.

At this point... there isn’t much else to distinguish in doctrine. It is plain, now.

 

[Phil W]

Sin is charged by the Law, and the Law’s charges against us were Crucified in God’s flesh.

This makes it clear that those who still commit sin are still under the law; "For by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Rom 3:20)

You are declaring the blood of God, ineffectual and simultaneously denying the believers need for Jesus.

Hardly.
If not for the blood of Christ, and His death and resurrection, no man could ever be sanctified, justified, or kill the old man of the flesh...with the affections and lusts.
We would not have been enabled to be reborn of God's seed, or to walk in the light/Spirit.

You are essentially stating that Jesus didn’t die for sinners. Paul literally declares While we were yet sinners and your counter argument was to say Jesus was crucified before our lifespan.

Some men dismiss the blood of Christ by remaining in sin after a profession of faith.
How does disobedience and a lack of fear of God manifest submission to God?
Jesus died while men were yet sinners, but to remain in sin after one partakes in Christ's death and resurrection only mocks Christ.

If you think the Blood Of God is BOUND to TIME, I suggest you reread Hebrews.

You will need to clarify this point?

This sinless doctrine is literally the purest form of deceit.

Jesus said..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
Paul said..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Peter said..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
John said..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
Are we all trying to deceive folks into obedience to God?

This is beginning to become an obvious declaration of man’s need to impute the Law back into effect... when Paul states the Law shows our need for Jesus...

If that is your POV on obedience to God...so be it.
The law is now written in the hearts of the pure, and is part of our divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)

You can’t say the Law of Moses is removed from the equation, then follow with imputed sin of the Law of Moses... declares a Believer unsaved... and mark my word... there is no New Covenant revival of Moses... .

By the law is the knowledge of sin...right? (Rom 3:20)
Those who still commit sin are, therefore, still under the law of Moses.
I am under the law of Christ: Love God above all else and my neighbor as myself.
"...and His commandments are NOT grievous." (1 John 5:3)
It isn't impossible!

 

[Phil W]

Correction... He is the First and the Last.

Were that true, and it isn't, the only ones who profited from the death of Jesus were the sacrificial animals.
Everything else stayed the same.
Sin, atone, sin, atone, sin, atone.
Thanks be to God, though, for blessing man-kind for the truth that can free us from service to sin! (John 8:32-34)

This doctrine has exalted Law above Grace. In this... it has exalted Moses as more powerful than Jesus Christ.

Sorry you are so confused by the very idea of someone actually loving God above all else.

It is now plain. It is ignoring verses that speak of repentance of the human heart and exalting verses that exalt your flesh.

Repent means..."turn away from", or, "change".
If one still sins, they have yet to repent of sin.
They are unchanged.

 

[Grip Docility]

This makes it clear that those who still commit sin are still under the law; "For by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Rom 3:20)


Hardly.
If not for the blood of Christ, and His death and resurrection, no man could ever be sanctified, justified, or kill the old man of the flesh...with the affections and lusts.
We would not have been enabled to be reborn of God's seed, or to walk in the light/Spirit.


Some men dismiss the blood of Christ by remaining in sin after a profession of faith.
How does disobedience and a lack of fear of God manifest submission to God?
Jesus died while men were yet sinners, but to remain in sin after one partakes in Christ's death and resurrection only mocks Christ.


You will need to clarify this point?


Jesus said..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
Paul said..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Peter said..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
John said..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
Are we all trying to deceive folks into obedience to God?


If that is your POV on obedience to God...so be it.
The law is now written in the hearts of the pure, and is part of our divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)


By the law is the knowledge of sin...right? (Rom 3:20)
Those who still commit sin are, therefore, still under the law of Moses.
I am under the law of Christ: Love God above all else and my neighbor as myself.
"...and His commandments are NOT grievous." (1 John 5:3)
It isn't impossible!

Game over. This doctrine literally uses scripture to claim one is perfect, in the flesh, unto perfection likened unto the Father....

This doctrine gives power back to the Law of Moses and simultaneously judges others by stating the law of Moses is followed as the Law of the Spirit, within believers and attempts to replicate moderate speech patterns of Sola Fide.

Obedience is in place of Faith. Human flesh is in place of God’s flesh.

Isaiah 14:14

 

[Phil W]

The group known as the People of God, the Temple, The Body of Christ, has been cleansed once for all, by the blood of Christ, which the blood of bulls and goats were unable to do. This explains the "once for all" description.

Amen to that.

We cannot be blessings to the world unless we are IN the invisible Church, the Body of Christ.
In order to be in the Church, we must be made holy, set apart for the Master's use, for which sinlessness is not required, only grace.

There are no holy sinners.
Pick a team!
You can't play both sides of the net.

It is sufficient, and received by being obedient, by con fessing, agreeing we have sin, and being considered clean.

"Considered clean"?
Then you have introduced sin into the body of Christ.

 

[Grip Docility]

Amen to that.


There are no holy sinners.
Pick a team!
You can't play both sides of the net.


"Considered clean"?
Then you have introduced sin into the body of Christ.

This doctrine is duplicitous.

 

[Phil W]

Game over. This doctrine literally uses scripture to claim one is perfect, in the flesh, unto perfection likened unto the Father....

Amen, and an answer to Jesus' prayer to the Father in John 17:11, 22..."And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are"
"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"

This doctrine gives power back to the Law of Moses and simultaneously judges others by stating the law of Moses is followed as the Law of the Spirit, within believers and attempts to replicate moderate speech patterns of Sola Fide.

I can't remember ever having advocated a return to circumcision and dietary laws....?

Obedience is in place of Faith.

Obedience is because of faith.
What is disobedience due to?

Human flesh is in place of God’s flesh.

Human skin is in submission to God.

Isaiah 14:14

John 10:33-36.

 

[Grip Docility]

The group known as the People of God, the Temple, The Body of Christ, has been cleansed once for all, by the blood of Christ, which the blood of bulls and goats were unable to do. This explains the "once for all" description.

We cannot be blessings to the world unless we are IN the invisible Church, the Body of Christ. In order to be in the Church, we must be made holy, set apart for the Master's use, for which sinlessness is not required, only grace. It is sufficient, and received by being obedient, by con fessing, agreeing we have sin, and being considered clean.

This is the correct rendering of Hebrews.

 

[Phil W]

This doctrine is duplicitous.

Not to those who love God above all else.

 

[Grip Docility]

Amen, and an answer to Jesus' prayer to the Father in John 17:11, 22..."And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are"
"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"


I can't remember ever having advocated a return to circumcision and dietary laws....?


Obedience is because of faith.
What is disobedience due to?


Human skin is in submission to God.


John 10:33-36.

Your use of John 10:33-36 is in direct harmony with the implication of Isaiah 14:14

 

[Phil W]

This is the correct rendering of Hebrews.

So being holy includes being rebellious against God?
I think not.

 

[Grip Docility]

Not to those who love God above all else.

No one who Loves God believes their flesh is as good as God’s.

A seared conscience can be the only cause of such a claim... to fleshly Righteousness that is sinlessly perfect.

 

[Phil W]

Your use of John 10:33-36 is in direct harmony with the implication of Isaiah 14:14

Except one usage was actually holy and the other was a poser.

 

[Grip Docility]

So being holy includes being rebellious against God?
I think not.

Being Holy requires True Repentance that is Honest... daily!

We are the Justified... He is the Justification.

 

[Grip Docility]

Except one usage was actually holy and the other was a poser.

God is Holy, we are not.

God is our atonement... we are not!