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Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

Does willful sin separate those once saved from God.

  • No, obedience is "works" and we are not saved by works.

    Votes: 10 33.3%
  • Yes, willful sin must be repented from in order to stay saved.

    Votes: 20 66.7%

  • Total voters
    30

Phil W

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Whose righteousness?
It is written..."For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." (Rom 5:19)
Whose grace?
God's, in us, and through us.
The "many" made righteous are not unrighteous anymore.
 
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Wordkeeper

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A better example is that of Simon the Sorcerer. Philip taught what his own Master taught, that men should stop serving Mammon for treasure that perishes, and start serving God for treasure that lasts, but Simon Magus did not think how that teaching affected his desire to move his career forward. Trying to buy the gift of the Holy Spirit was indeed serving mammon, a self serving act.
 
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Phil W

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Though I don't know what exactly you are referring to, I agree with all your POV.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Though I don't know what exactly you are referring to, I agree with all your POV.
Iacocca said a good lecture is one where the speaker tells the audience what he is going to talk about, then talks about it, and then tells them what he talked about. Jesus always taught the same lesson in many different ways.
 
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Grip Docility

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You had me at free from the Law of Sin and Death! Praise Jesus!!!!

Paul speaks as if he’s held under the Law, in the present, to teach.

But, I have to be sincere, I sense something is off, in much of Christianity's understanding.

It boils down to either it’s Jesus or its not. This is where duplicity can be found.
 
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Phil W

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You didn't actually read what I wrote did you?
Yes I did, including this..."Yet because a believer still has a fallen nature; they do still sin. No believer is without sin."
But I am a new creature now, and It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
My "fallen nature" has been replaced by a divine nature.

Except verses 14-25 of Romans 7 are present tense.
More precisely, they are present-historical, or, present-narrative tense.
Paul is narrating a past experience, making the transition from "flesh"-Romans 6, to "Spirit"-Romans 8

1 John 1:
John is addressing two very different kinds of men and two very different kinds of walk.
Some of 1 John 1's verses are addressed to those in darkness--sin and others are addressed to those walking in light--God.
Verse 8 and 10, along with verse 6 are of concern to those in darkness...they cannot say they have no sin or that they have never committed sin.
But others walk in the light, and have had all their sins washed away by the blood of Christ.
They can say they have no sin.
It is incumbent on us to remain in the light, wherein is no sin. (verse 5)
 
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Phil W

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You had me at free from the Law of Sin and Death! Praise Jesus!!!!
Paul speaks as if he’s held under the Law, in the present, to teach.
I think you've got it !
Then Paul goes on to tech about life in the Spirit instead of in the flesh, in Romans 8.

But, I have to be sincere, I sense something is off, in much of Christianity's understanding.
It boils down to either it’s Jesus or its not. This is where duplicity can be found.
Your "sense" is on target.
False Christians are destroying the reputation of Jesus, the church, and God.
How often have you heard..."Well some Christians are worse than unbelievers"?

We gotta "represent" God on earth now!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Your confused here dear brother. According to God's WORD no one is under the law unless they stand guilty before God of breaking the law *ROMANS 3:19-20. Sin is the breaking of God's LAW *1 JOHN 2:3-4.

Abraham did have God's LAW *GENESIS 26:5. I suggest you read JAMES 2:14-26 and HEBREWS 11 to have a balanced view of faith. There is no such thing as believing without following God's WORD. The devils believe God's WORD but do not follow it *JAMES 2:19.

According to God's WORD breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments do indeed matter as all those who knowingly continue doing so without repentance and without turning back to God to seek his forgiveness, will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. *1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 10:26-31. That being the case according to God's WORD it seems like it matters indeed.

Many are called but only few are chosen. Many are going to think they are saved when they are not at the 2nd coming because they were practicing known unrepentant sin (breaking God's Commandments) which kept them out of God's Kingdom *MATTHEW 7:22-23.
 
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Grip Docility

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Your "sense" is on target.
False Christians are destroying the reputation of Jesus, the church, and God.
How often have you heard..."Well some Christians are worse than unbelievers"?

We gotta "represent" God on earth now!

I will be honest... It’s those Christians saying that, that are the problem.

“The least of these” are important words.

Keep in mind the Pharisees said this... Mark 2:16 ; Matthew 9:11
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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95% of men would have unconscious thoughts like that, and the other 5% are liars.
 
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Grip Docility

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95% of men would have unconscious thoughts like that, and the other 5% are liars.

So, just to be clear, praying for a gust of wind, at that point, is bad?

With my luck, I would pray for the wind and an unexpected sound would be generated from in front me, to remind me, it’s all just “temporary passings” of a dying kingdom of dust.

I would be reminded that selfish prayers deserve answers that “stink”.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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It all depends on what you want the gust of wind to do!
 
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Grip Docility

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It all depends on what you want the gust of wind to do!

Let’s say, hypothetically, I think myself Righteous, and forego praying for that quick gust that moves fabric.... Forego praying for God’s Will, and I decide to be cleaver and pray the very wind sweeps her my way to have and to hold. In the process I ignore the scripture that says beauty fades... and end up married to the gal. 6 months into marriage, I realize that marrying someone based on looks was a bad idea, as beauty fades, while personality is forever!

Yeah... that sums up my first marriage

That moment when you’re reading through Proverbs and realize you sidestepped all the important verses about marriage.

I could write a book on making Ishmael!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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A PARABLE

Some were told by the one who knows all things;

Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: this was because those hearing made themselves a hardened heart that said "Lo this word is not for me who can hear it? I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing".

Travelling along the way those who would not hear fell into the ditch they call delusion that all fall into that kick against the pricks because they lost their mirror that shows the way when the path is dark and narrow.

Their lamp was a guide to them but they did not have enough oil. Their lamp then went out and now they sit in darkness falling into the dtich they cannot find their way out.

Some travellers in the way walked by and saw some of these sitting in darkeness who lost their way and offered them some oil for their lamps but they being proud would not accept the gift and did not want to receive any help choosing instead to make their home in the ditch which the Lord of the way gave them over to because they loved darkness rather then the light because their deeds were evil.

Tick tock goes the watch the time for grace is running out. Who will hear the call to go out and meet the brifegroom? Only those that have their lamps trimmed and full of oil and who have not lost their mirror that shows them the way when the road is dark and narrow.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God)

.............

MATTHEW 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

MATTHEW 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

MATTHEW 13:53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed there.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Well 1 John 2:3-6 comes to mind.

By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.”

1 JOHN 2:3-6 NASB
 
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BNR32FAN

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Well said friend
 
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Grip Docility

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A parable,

Just then an expert in the law stood up to test Him, saying, “Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 “What is written in the law?” He asked him. “How do you read it?” He answered: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.

28 “You’ve answered correctly,” He told him. “Do this and you will live.” But wanting to justify himself, he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus took up the question and said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho and fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him, beat him up, and fled, leaving him half dead.

31 A priest happened to be going down that road. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 In the same way, a Levite, when he arrived at the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.

33 But a Samaritan on his journey came up to him, and when he saw the man, he had compassion. 34 He went over to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on olive oil and wine. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said, ‘Take care of him. When I come back I’ll reimburse you for whatever extra you spend.’ 36 “Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” “The one who showed mercy to him,” he said. Then Jesus told him, “Go and do the same.”
Luke 10:25-37 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 10:25-37 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

A Samaritan was considered cut off from God because they did not follow the Law and worshiped other god’s.

The first priest avoided the body of the man to follow the law.

The Levite, also, avoided the body of the man to follow the Law.

The Samaritan cared for and Restored the man, without concern to who the man was or why he was there in the first place.

What does it profit a man to gain the entire world and lose his soul?

The free gift of salvation is mankind’s greatest hope... and what good is it if it is sold at a price, when Jesus already paid for it in totality?

Beware robbers that would enter in by ways that are not The Way... those that would even attempt to waylay those that enter through the narrow gate.
 
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ViaCrucis

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On what justification do you claim Romans 7 and 1 John 1 doesn't apply to Christians? Where in the context of the text do you make that claim?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Grip Docility

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On what justification do you claim Romans 7 and 1 John 1 doesn't apply to Christians? Where in the context of the text do you make that claim?

-CryptoLutheran

It isn't speaking to Christians if it's context isn't properly followed. This is to say, it is speaking to Christians in present tense verbiage that exalts Jesus Christ's salvational work in the lives of "forgiven sinners". By the Law of sin and death, we would be damned, yet by Christ we are Saved.
 
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CharismaticLady

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On what justification do you claim Romans 7 and 1 John 1 doesn't apply to Christians? Where in the context of the text do you make that claim?

-CryptoLutheran

By the context of the Book of Romans. Paul is saying we are not under the law, but he wants to clarify that there was nothing wrong with the law, like it was not holy. It is! The problem was trying to keep the OT law with sin in our nature (which Christ takes away). Romans 7 and 8 is a contrast between the OT law before Christ and the NT Spirit after being born again of the Spirit.

Romans 7:13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

1 John 1 also has contrasts between light and darkness. Verses 5, 7 and 9 are light; 6, 8 and 10 are those still in darkness.
 
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