Originally Posted by
tall73
However, whether here or in real life when I bring up the sanctuary doctrine to Adventists I continually see them dodge the issue and then ask my position on the Sabbath. They do not want to discuss the sanctuary doctrine. I was amazed to see this over and over, from family, acquaintances, church members. They simply didn't care at all about the sanctuary doctrine. Many of them had no clue what it even was.
Some were even quite willing to think that even if I didn't agree with the IJ, I would still be fine if I just held on to the Sabbath.
Some told me they didn't believe the IJ either. Some of these were pastors, and some laity.
I know you have studied the sanctuary teaching for some time. And while we don't agree on the truth of the doctrine, we both see its importance to the Adventist church.
So I will leave this thread discussing the IJ and not bring into it my views on the Sabbath. If you feel I can't benefit from further discussion, maybe you will consider posting your views for the sake of lurkers.
You should be familiar with the reasons. By design, SDA church hasn't taught the sanctuary message to its leity and pastorial students for decades, ever since the agreement reached with Dr. Walter Martin in the 1960s.
But sanity is not statistical. It does and at the same time doesn't bother me that the majority of the church does not believe and understand the sanctuary message.
Now specifically for the chronology of the 2300 days ( how we derived to Oct 22, 1844), it begins in Daniel 7.
Here is a study on Daniel and 2300 days. It should answer the question on the dating. Please excuse the spelling and grammar.
The vision continues (in Daniel 8)
1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
The vision of Daniel chapter 8 is situated chronologically in 551BC. Two years after the first vision of Daniel in chapter 7.
2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
So he locates the time and the place.
3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
This is a simple vision because it is explained in vs20. There is no need to guess.
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
The two horns of Medes and Persians are unequal in height. The higher came up last as the Persians superseded and dominated the Medes. We see in the vision a very different picture of what we saw in Daniel 7. In Daniel 7, the beasts come up from the sea and come up as a result of strife. From the war and strives emerges the lion of Babylon, the bear of Medo Persia, the leopard of Greece, the terrible dragon-like beast that is Rome.
Here in chapter eight we see a ram, a domesticated beast in contrast to wild beast of lion, leopard and bear.
While they are in conflict, the goats and rams are sacrificial animals of the sanctuary services. So the ideas are presented in Chapter 8 must be contrasted with that of Chapter 7. In chp 7, vision is about military, civil and results of wars and strives. In chp 8, we are going to get another angle.
4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
We read about the goat later in verse 21.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
What does it mean to be first in biblical term? The first does not necessarily refer to chronological order, but in position, in primacy.
6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
Greece attacked Persia. That conflict took place from Asia to Asia Minor unto the Aegean Sea. Aegean sea was named after Aegeus the goat-man of the Greek mythology. Aegean or Aigaion (in Greek) means the sea of Goat.
8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
Alexander the great was an alcoholic. He died in his conquest during the pinnacle of his power. Four generals divided the empire Alexander conquered.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
We met this little horn in chapter 7.
We see the apparent discrepancy that the little horn in chp 7 rises out of the disintegration of Rome. Here in chp 8 the little horn rises out the disintegration of Greece. How can the two possible be the same?
As we laid the foundation earlier chapter 7 describes wild beasts risen out of war and conflict. Chapter 8 describes domestic beasts. The little horn in chp 7 describes the political and military forces the constituted this power while chp 8 portrait its philosophical and theological roots. It emerges from Rome politically. It emerges from Greece philosophically.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
After having read the philosophical and intellectual root of the little horn came out of Greece, we are now told he takes a stand against heaven.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
Here we see the philosophy of Greece met head on with faith of the Hebrews and sought to destroy it.
The word sacrifice is in Italic meaning it was added. The Hebrew word daily is tammid. This refers to the daily sacrifice, daily washing of hands and feet, daily ministry in the holy place such as displaying the daily showbread, daily burning of incense, daily trimming and lighting of the Menorah, daily presentation of the high priests breast place before God for judgment
Everything that is conducted in the sanctuary everyday connoted by daily was removed and sought to destroy.
Hebrews 8
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
From Christ, the day by day tammid functions were removed and substituted.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
So when substitute was made, when mans minds were turned from Christ to substitutes to other ways of salvation, the truth, the Word was cast to the ground, this little horn practiced and prospered.
Now verse 22 and 23 explain this.
22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
This little horn which rises out of the four kings of Greece but in their philosophies and but not in their power claims to understand dark sentences.
Psalm 78
1 Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
The Psalmist prophesied that the Messiah would come and expound on the hidden mystery of Word of God. This the little horn claims to do. He took and function of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the revelation of the mystery of God.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
He would be empowered by the secular arms.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
We saw in chp 7, the judgment should sit and shall consume and destroy it (the little horn political). Here he sets himself religiously against the Prince of Princes. It shall be broken without hand.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint (the wonderful numberer, margin) which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
Judges 13
17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?
18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is wonderful?
Jesus name is wonderful. He has thus revealed Himself in many ways throughout the age. Here is the wonderful judge, the mathematician, the Chronologer, the Revealer of secret, the One who can see the end from the beginning.
How long would the little horn remain dominant? How long would it crush the host, the sanctuary and the truth to the ground? How long would it substitutes its own sacrifices, its own rituals, its own intercessors in the place of the Jesus Christ? The answer is given in verse 14.
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
The Chronology of the 2300 days
Begin at Daniel 7, Daniel was given visions in 553BC about Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and Christ final victory. The vision was explained to Daniel. But Daniel was still troubled.
Continues in Daniel 8, two years later in 551BC, the visions returned to Daniel as he was shown the ram, the goat, 4 horns and the little horn.
Daniel heard the question: how long shall the vision be concerning the daily sacrifice, the transgression of desolation
.Daniel 8:13
The answer:
Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
The explanation was given by Gabriel to to Daniel vs16-26. The vision is about the endtime vs17 & 19. But Daniel didnt understand. For the ending of this prophecy was given but the beginning was not. He was greatly troubled and felt sick.
On to the first year of Darius the Persian king 539BC about 14 years after the vision was first given, as the 70years of captivity prophesized by Jeremiah nearing end, Daniel confessed his sins and sins of Israel and prayed to the Lord for his people. At the end of his prayer, Gabriel returned to finish the explanation of the 2300day prophecy.
Daniel 9
21 Yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the former vision, being caused to fly swiftly, came near to me and touched me about the time of the evening sacrifice.
22 He instructed me and made me understand; he talked with me and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give you skill and wisdom and understanding.
In many translations, vs21 is cross-referenced to Dan 8:16. As we recall, Dan 8:16-26, Gabriel explained the symbols of the ram, goat, the horns and explained the vision is for the endtime. Daniel understood none of that. For the time prophecy to be understood, now the starting point must be given.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
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70 weeks was given as the beginning of the time prophecy. The word determine comes the meaning: cut-off.
OT:2852 chathak (khaw-thak'); a primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree:
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To cut off from a piece of string, it has to be from the either ends. 70 week prophecy was the beginning portion that was cut-off from the 2300day prophecy.
When a bible prophecy is declared, it calls for attention, gives warning. Its not for prediction, but rather when it came to pass, it vindicates the God and the bearers of the message.
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