This goes into the genealogy thing. Even in Revelation Jesus speaks about those claiming to be Jews but are not, they are imposters, counterfeits, planted by the enemy.Romans 9 starts out with Paul explaining why not all who claim to be Israelites are not. There’s nothing to suggest that he’s switching from individuals to the nation as a whole.
I guess what I said didn't catch or something with you.Simul iustus et peccator means "both saint and sinner". Christians are saints because we have been justified by God, and we are sinners on account of our sinful flesh. The new man--the new creation in Christ--and the old man are simultaneous. We don't cease to be sinners when we are Christians, because we don't have any righteousness or holiness in and of ourselves--we have only the righteousness and holiness of Jesus Christ given to us as pure gift by the grace of God. In this life we continue to struggle, in this life we are still mortal, corruptible, sinful creatures; but God in His mercy through what Christ has done for us has forgiven us all our sins, adopted us as children, given us His Holy Spirit, and promised us resurrection and everlasting life, world without end.
We are sinner-saints.
-CryptoLutheran
Romans 9 doesn't count for personal salvation and I explained why to you.I quoted a whole section from Romans 9.
IF God made us to be sinners,If you are correct, why would there be any conditions to avoid hell? I mean, He made us that way, right?
You said you wouldn't go to jail for your children.You’ll have to explain how.
You're making me do all the work here, while you reply in one sentence.Grace, by definition, is undeserved.
If you understand what happened in the Garden and you feel that God had no obligation to provide a solution to the problem...I understand that’s what happened. I’m saying that He was under no obligation to provide salvation.
IF God made me for destruction and I'm a sinner...
HOW does that make ME responsible for sinning?
Great post.Beginning of multi-chapter Exegesis
Romans 9-11, Acts 1, Zechariah 14, Joel 3 and Galatians 4 and 6:16
~Intro to Romans 9 -inprogress-~
I speak the truth in Christ —I am not lying; my conscience is testifying to me with the Holy Spirit —
Romans 9:1 - Bible Gateway passage: Romans 9:1 - Holman Christian Standard Bible
Paul just made it clear he’s about to be painfully honest, and has bound his words to be judged by God, as He is holding himself in personal accountability of Preaching what he’s about to preach under God.
that I have intense sorrow and continual anguish in my heart.
For I could almost wish to be cursed and cut off from the Messiah for the benefit of my brothers, my own flesh and blood.
They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the temple service, and the promises. The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Messiah, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen.
Romans 9:2-5 - Bible Gateway passage: Romans 9:2-5 - Holman Christian Standard Bible
Paul’s heart hurts... why? In verse 2 he immediately reveals he is broken inside!
Verses 3-5 reveal why! Paul literally wishes he could revoke his salvation to give it to a group of people that apparently matter to him enormously. As Paul is speaking under oath of the Holy Spirit, he is revealing God’s heart, as well. This lines up with Christ’s words that close Matthew 23 with deep sorrow and lamenting, but show hope.
Who is making Paul sad? His brothers of “his own flesh and blood”... which is clearly a reference to his unbelieving Jewish brothers of the Broken off nature, of ... what Nation?
Israel as Paul calls these broken off Jews Israelites! Paul specifically notes that they are Israelites of National Israel and goes on to specify that they are so by blood, DNA, Ancestral experience!
Anyone who contests this is ignoring context...
To be edited and continued further.
Continued... Romans 9:6-13
Continued... Romans 9:14-26
Continued... Romans 9:27-28
Concluded... Romans 9:29-33
In verse 8 of Isaiah 64, God is asked to have mercy and not be angry and not remember forever the people's sins because they have been made with HIS hands and they are HIS people.Because He is merciful..
Why do you think you deserve His mercy or grace? You certainly cannot earn it.. You have done nothing to deserve it.. Nor has anyone.. Our righteousness is as filthy rags..
The very definition of grace is unmerited (or undeserved) favor.
Why would it mean that? He’s the one who established that the wages of sin is death.If that's true then that would mean he is not a loving God, nor one to be respected, he would now be reproachable as anyone would be that would set up someone to fall and then not help them out.
Because they did the thing that I just paid the price for.Why?
Then if they have no option, then it’s not them sending themselves to hell.At that point, no. But they were given the opportunity.
You didn’t answer the question."God surely knows the difference between the wheat (those who can be called) and the weeds (those who never belonged to him in the first place). He can call those who are his, but it is still in our freewill to accept that call or not. If he predestines them to conform then that means he has taken back our freewill."
The problem here is the understanding of what Paul is trying to say. God did not pick and choose those who could be called. As I said, He knows who the wheat are, that is not predestination.
It's like saying that the Treasurer of the US knows the difference between the 'real' money and the counterfeit.
If the scenario were as such that stacks of money were placed before him, and he needed to claim what 'belonged' in the treasury then he would be able to separate the real from the counterfeit. He would know because he would be very familiar with his 'creation' so to speak.
So only the 'real' money would be the money worth saving as the counterfeit didn't belong to the treasury in the first place.
It's similar to Noah, he found 'grace' because of his genealogy.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"IF God made me for destruction and I'm a sinner...
HOW does that make ME responsible for sinning?
I’m not His child.You said you wouldn't go to jail for your children.
Jesus went to the cross for you.
I DID say that analogies of our own families compared to God's family just don't seem to work in the end...
you just proved it.
Oh. I agree.That's the same question Paul hypothetically asks himself in Romans 9:19..
He doesn't answer directly but says we have no right to question God.
HOW am I personally responsible for sinning if it's God who predestinates EVERYTHING so HE made me be a sinner AND He caused me to sin.
And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Romans 8:30
Who does this passage say are justified? The called or those who responded to the call?
I’m not His child.
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