Does morality exist without God?

[quatona]

what was improper behaviour has now become accepted and now seemed as the proper

Yes, and even more fortunately, certain behaviours that once used to be regarded proper have now become inacceptable.

 

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

could GOD meet you in the wrong to give you the right thing??

hm hm

 

[Non sequitur]

could GOD meet you in the wrong to give you the right thing??

hm hm

I rarely understand your poignant riddles...

 

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

you cant un derstand this/


hm hm

think about it

I rarely understand your poignant riddles...

 

[Non sequitur]

you cant un derstand this/


hm hm

think about it

It seems nonsensical.

 

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

what is the principle pf the knowledge of good and evil ??

 

[Non sequitur]

what is the principle pf the knowledge of good and evil ??

Please quote people and talk in coherent sentences.

 

[TomZzyzx]

Christians,

Would you agree with most theists that the punishment for sin is hell, and the reward for a good life is heaven?

I would only agree that "the punishment for sin is hell". I would not agree that "the reward for a good life is heaven". Romans 3:12 says "there is none that does good, there is not even one". The only way into heaven is to believe that Jesus died for our sins. Romans 10:9 says "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I would only agree that "the punishment for sin is hell". I would not agree that "the reward for a good life is heaven". Romans 3:12 says "there is none that does good, there is not even one". The only way into heaven is to believe that Jesus died for our sins. Romans 10:9 says "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

What if you believe Jesus died for your sins and you sin? You know, like most people.

 

[TomZzyzx]

What if you believe Jesus died for your sins and you sin? You know, like most people.

Jesus died for our past, present and future sins. John 1:9 says "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Jesus died for our past, present and future sins. John 1:9 says "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So...what Anders Breivik did is okay...as long as he confesses? He'll still get into Heaven and stay away from Hell...whatever they are...?

 

[TomZzyzx]

So...what Anders Breivik did is okay...as long as he confesses? He'll still get into Heaven and stay away from Hell...whatever they are...?

Not quite. Remember Romans 10:9 said "...believe in your heart that God Raised Jesus from the dead, and you shall be saved. Anders Breivik can confess all day long, but if he does not believe Jesus died for his sins and God raised Him from the dead he does not get into Heaven.

 

[Non sequitur]

Not quite. Remember Romans 10:9 said "...believe in your heart that God Raised Jesus from the dead, and you shall be saved. Anders Breivik can confess all day long, but if he does not believe Jesus died for his sins and God raised Him from the dead he does not get into Heaven.

But if he did, that's a yes?

 

[Eudaimonist]

what is the principle pf the knowledge of good and evil ??

Concept formation.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[ForaOne]

Morality:
1. Recognition of the distinction between good and evil or between right and wrong; respect for and obedience to the rules of right conduct; the mental disposition or characteristic of behaving in a manner intended to produce morally good results.
2. A set of social rules, customs, traditions, beliefs, or practices which specify proper, acceptable forms of conduct.
3. A set of personal guiding principles for conduct or a general notion of how to behave, whether respectable or not.

If there were no god(s), people would still have morality, because they would still have a good idea of how to behave. Unless you're specifically talking about the Christian morality, in which case parts of it would still apply because they're universal.

Also, isn't it kind of insulting to Christians to claim that there is no morality without god? Basically, you're saying that you need a god to tell you how to behave, because you can't figure out that it's wrong to rape and murder on your own (despite the fact that many pagans had ideas of right and wrong that were pretty good, despite the fact that they werent Christian).

Additionally, Christian morality is always changing. Thirty years ago, spousal rape was considered acceptable according to the bible. Before the Civil War, slavery was viewed as acceptable according to the bible (where they have verses dedicated to how to properly enslave people, including making your daughter a sex slave). Even now, Christians can't agree on whether or not homosexuality, divorce, remarriage, nudity, etc. is acceptable. What is the Christian morality? If it was given by a god and it's perfect, why isn't it clear enough that everyone agrees on it? Why does it change if the biblical morality is a perfect morality?

 

[Non sequitur]

Also, isn't it kind of insulting to Christians to claim that there is no morality without god? Basically, you're saying that you need a god to tell you how to behave, because you can't figure out that it's wrong to rape and murder on your own (despite the fact that many pagans had ideas of right and wrong that were pretty good, despite the fact that they werent Christian).

Which non-Christian says, "there is no morality without god"?

I don't understand how that paradox would occur...

 

[ForaOne]

Which non-Christian says, "there is no morality without god"?

I don't understand how that paradox would occur...

Insulting to Christians for Christians to say that there is no morality without god. They're insulting themselves by saying that it's the only reason they have for being moral, and that they need someone to tell them not to murder and rape and etc.

 

[Amiga1200]

Wait.... so going back... there are atheists who believe in free will? Is there some perception that there is some sort of limited feedback loop involving holes in the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics and the firing of neurons in our brains?? If so, how would that loop be initiated except through random chance, encounters with external stimuli that could not be controlled(i.e. not "free"), or other deterministic factors on their own terms?

I do see this as important, because I can't see the justification for "morality" in terms of judgment (i.e. you did something wrong, implying freedom of will) or any other level besides a utilitarian harm principle that is nonetheless aware that those who commit grievous violations of that principle are not actually responsible for their actions (and in fact, the entire concept of "self/they/etc..." falls apart into the gigantic web of physical interactions throughout the universe(s)). And even that harm principle would be pursued with the knowledge that active free will (in the immediate sense) is based solely on perception and the impossibility of a LaPlace's Daemon invading that perception!

IMHO.

 

[TomZzyzx]

But if he did, that's a yes?

Anyone who believes Jesus died for there sins goes to heaven.

 

[TomZzyzx]

If there were no god(s), people would still have morality, because they would still have a good idea of how to behave. Unless you're specifically talking about the Christian morality, in which case parts of it would still apply because they're universal.

Also, isn't it kind of insulting to Christians to claim that there is no morality without god? Basically, you're saying that you need a god to tell you how to behave, because you can't figure out that it's wrong to rape and murder on your own (despite the fact that many pagans had ideas of right and wrong that were pretty good, despite the fact that they werent Christian).

You have this completely wrong. The only kind of morality you get without a moral law giver is a subjective, relativist morality. Two separate groups of people might have a different morality. One group might say that rape and murder is ok. We all need a moral law giver to tell us what is right and what is wrong.