Does man have a freewill ?

[zoidar]

Not if you know how decrees are produced. . .a decree produces effect, the knowledge of which effect is, therefore, foreknown; i.e., before it occurs.

I'm not sure I fully follow. It sounds like from your view God didn't know His own decree from eternity, which again points to God learning.

 

[Jerry N.]

I'm not sure I fully follow. It sounds like from your view God didn't know His own decree from eternity, which again points to God learning.

This verse always bothered me: 1Samual 15:35: And Samuel did not see Saul again until the day of his death, but Samuel grieved over Saul. And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel. Can somebody explain it?

 

[Clare73]

I understand, but I thought that the “decree” idea in this thread would add some nuance to Calvinism vs. Arminianism. Maybe it does, but I missed the point. Theologically, I wouldn’t back either side. Practically, I think Arminianism is more functional. Scriptural arguments have been around for a long time, and I think it is a paradox. Like the Catholics say, “It is a mystery of faith.” Thank you for your reply. If you have more to add, I would be interested.

Well, of course, neither Calvin nor Arminius are authors of Scripture, so they are not the parameters for its understanding.

Scripture reveals all of creation and its outcomes are ordained by God to make known, for the sake of the elect, both his wrath and his mercy.

 

[Clare73]

I'm not sure I fully follow. It sounds like from your view God didn't know His own decree from eternity, which again points to God learning.

Your thinking of eternity (without beginning and without end) in terms of time. There is no time in eternity.

 

[Brightfame52]

Isaiah 55: 8-9:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Okay have a good day

 

[Spiritual Jew]

My brother now you are goading me.

No, I'm not.

The only mistake I made, and confessed to, was miss posting the verse numbers. You are implying that I constantly make mistakes.

No, I'm not.

That is far from the truth. I tried to use levity that you are now attempting to use against me. The Bible teaches that there is only one that is perfect which makes you just as imperfect and prong to error as any human being. I’m sure you have passed brain gas just as everyone else. I forgive you. I hold no ill will for you.

ETA: I’m not offended just baffled by your insensitive comments.

You called yourself old, so I can't help but wonder if maybe you make that same type of mistake often. I'm not saying you do, I just wonder if maybe you do. I spent a good amount of time showing you how I understand Romans 9:22-24 and that wasn't even the text you meant to reference. I just don't want to waste time like that again. You don't have to take so much offense. And I said I may change my mind. So, just relax and don't be so sensitive.

 

[zoidar]

Your thinking of eternity (without beginning and without end) in terms of time. There is no time in eternity.

I believe your view still implies change, since it introduces sequence. Even if it's not in time God in the first stage does not know and in the second stage He does. So logically God is learning which contradicts the notion of God's unchangable nature.

 

[Clare73]

I believe your view still implies change, since it introduces sequence. Even if it's not in time God in the first stage does not know and in the second stage He does. So logically God is learning which contradicts the notion of God's unchangable nature.

God knows what is going to happen (prognosis) in time before it happens in timebecause he has decreed that/when it shall happen in time.

 

[Hentenza]

No, I'm not.


No, I'm not.


You called yourself old, so I can't help but wonder if maybe you make that same type of mistake often. I'm not saying you do, I just wonder if maybe you do. I spent a good amount of time showing you how I understand Romans 9:22-24 and that wasn't even the text you meant to reference. I just don't want to waste time like that again. You don't have to take so much offense. And I said I may change my mind. So, just relax and don't be so sensitive.

Move on brother. Maybe looking up and studying verses 22-24 did you some good or maybe not. You be the judge but don’t be annoyed by studying the word of God.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Move on brother. Maybe looking up and studying verses 22-24 did you some good or maybe not. You be the judge but don’t be annoyed by studying the word of God.

You're telling me to move on after I already told you that I was moving on from you. Why didn't you just accept it in the first place?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This verse always bothered me: 1Samual 15:35: And Samuel did not see Saul again until the day of his death, but Samuel grieved over Saul. And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel. Can somebody explain it?

It's very easy to explain. God gave man free will and it saddens Him when someone makes bad choices that go against His desires like Saul did.

You can see the same thing here:

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

God knows what is going to happen (prognosis) in time before it happens in timebecause he has decreed that/when it shall happen in time.

So, you think God decrees every rape and murder and every other sin that occurs?

 

[Hentenza]

This verse always bothered me: 1Samual 15:35: And Samuel did not see Saul again until the day of his death, but Samuel grieved over Saul. And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel. Can somebody explain it?

God doesn’t “regret” making Saul king in the same sense as we do. The bible teaches us God is omniscient so He knows all. I’ve always though of these kind of words like regret or repent when applied to God to be an anthropomorphism to helps up better understand the sorrow that He has for Saul. Below is what the word means to give you some context.

נָחַם nâcham, naw-kham'; a primitive root; properly, to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly; by implication, to be sorry, i.e. (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself):—comfort (self), ease (one's self), repent(-er,-ing, self).
The KJV translates Strong's H5162 in the following manner: comfort (57x), repent (41x), comforter (9x), ease (1x).

 

[Jerry N.]

It's very easy to explain. God gave man free will and it saddens Him when someone makes bad choices that go against His desires like Saul did.

You can see the same thing here:

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

Thanks, that is pretty much what I thought, and it indicates the limitations of language.

 

[Jerry N.]

God doesn’t “regret” making Saul king in the same sense as we do. The bible teaches us God is omniscient so He knows all. I’ve always though of these kind of words like regret or repent when applied to God to be an anthropomorphism to helps up better understand the sorrow that He has for Saul. Below is what the word means to give you some context.

נָחַם nâcham, naw-kham'; a primitive root; properly, to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly; by implication, to be sorry, i.e. (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself):—comfort (self), ease (one's self), repent(-er,-ing, self).
The KJV translates Strong's H5162 in the following manner: comfort (57x), repent (41x), comforter (9x), ease (1x).

Thanks. That is helpful and well thought out.