Does God Want All Men to be Saved?

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, Kwatt

Text mapped out for you:

2 Pe 1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

**Remember this is written to Believers


2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

* believers- beloved,YE

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

*Un regenerate man

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

*Unregenerate Man's Charge
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

* Unbelivers rewards for thier ungodly- ness
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

*Believers

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

* Believers (beloved v8, us-ward and all [of the us]) – Charge of the ungodly in verse #4 debuffed

Just follow the pronouns.... easy contextual reading.

IN Him

Bill

 

[K Watt]

Good Day,

He command it yes... he also grants it so that people can do so.

Bill

So you agree that God wants all men to repent? I can't tell from your answer.

 

[K Watt]

Good day, Kwatt

Recommend DA Carson of that Parable... Good ground is not able to make it's self good it is made good by an external entity.

Augustine notes: Will is not taken away by grace, but is changed from evil into good, and helped when it is good. By this he means only that man is not borne along without any motion of the heart, as if by an outside force; rather, he is so affected within that he obeys from the heart. Augustine writes to Boniface that grace is specially and freely given to the elect in this manner:

He said this to point to the way he would die has nothing to do with Gods desires.


In Him
Bill

From Augustine's Treatise on Grace and Free Will, written late in his life:

But since there are some persons who so defend God's grace as to deny man's free will, or who suppose that free will is denied when grace is defended, I have determined to write somewhat on this point ...

This is the purport of what the Scripture says: If you will, you shall keep the commandments; Sirach 15:15 so that the man who wills but is not able knows that he does not yet fully will, and prays that he may have so great a will that it may suffice for keeping the commandments. And thus, indeed, he receives assistance to perform what he is commanded. Then is the will of use when we have ability; just as ability is also then of use when we have the will. For what does it profit us if we will what we are unable to do, or else do not will what we are able to do?

 

[K Watt]

You need to be a Calvinist and experience Salvation from that point of view or it won't make sense.

You could say the same thing about Mormons and Buddhists.

It either is true or it isn't. Point of view doesn't change truth.

 

[Dave L]

You could say the same thing about Mormons and Buddhists.

It either is true or it isn't. Point of view doesn't change truth.

Why are you Catholic?

 

[K Watt]

Why are you Catholic?

I'm a convert.

Jesus started one Church and he told us to follow his Church.

I believe that the evidence is clear that the Catholic Church was started by Christ and is led by the successors of the apostles.

 

[Dave L]

I'm a convert.

Jesus started one Church and he told us to follow his Church.

I believe that the evidence is clear that the Catholic Church was started by Christ and is led by the successors of the apostles.

I'm a convert too. But I believe the church is the body of Christ and it's spiritual, not a man-made institution.

 

[K Watt]

I'm a convert too. But I believe the church is the body of Christ and it's spiritual, not a man-made institution.

It was created by Christ. I agree it is not man made.

However, it is led by the apostles and their successors. It is led in the fullness of truth. Therefore, it cannot teach false doctrine.

Protestantism teaches multiple contradictory doctrines.

You can try to argue that one particular protestant denomination is true, but you can't make the case for Protestantism as a whole.

In addition, the Church already existed for 1500 years before protestants emerged to fight against it.

Jesus said the gates of Hell would not prevail against his Church and that he would be with them until the end of time. The Church Jesus started never left us.

 

[Dave L]

It was created by Christ. I agree it is not man made.

However, it is led by the apostles and their successors. It is led in the fullness of truth. Therefore, it cannot teach false doctrine.

Protestantism teaches multiple contradictory doctrines.

You can try to argue that one particular protestant denomination is true, but you can't make the case for Protestantism as a whole.

In addition, the Church already existed for 1500 years before protestants emerged to fight against it.

Jesus said the gates of Hell would not prevail against his Church and that he would be with them until the end of time. The Church Jesus started never left us.

The church is spiritual and is spread around many denominations. Physical churches are religious franchises that cater to Christians. But they are not the church.

 

[K Watt]

The church is spiritual and is spread around many denominations. Physical churches are religious franchises that cater to Christians. But they are not the church.

You believe that the Church started by Christ can teach false doctrines?

For example, some protestant churches teach that homosexual marriage, abortion, and divorce are permissible for Christians and that these acts are not sinful.

Are those Churches the Church Jesus started?

Some teach that baptism is required for salvation, others say it is not. That's a big deal. Would Jesus allow his Church to teach something false about salvation?

There are many other examples, but you get the point.

 

[Dave L]

You believe that the Church started by Christ can teach false doctrines?

For example, some protestant churches teach that homosexual marriage, abortion, and divorce are permissible for Christians and that these acts are not sinful.

Are those Churches the Church Jesus started?

Some teach that baptism is required for salvation, others say it is not. That's a big deal. Would Jesus allow his Church to teach something false about salvation?

There are many other examples, but you get the point.

These are not churches. The church is spiritual and remains invisible until two or the meet in Jesus' name. You can hold a church (assembly) at Mickey D's or at one of the "church" franchises that cater to the church.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

What does the bible say about this?

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in anyone's death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!

1 Timothy 2
3This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

Revelation 2:21
Even though I have given her time to repent of her immorality, she is unwilling.

Matt 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her. How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Yes, he desires all people to be saved, but he doesn't save all people. The Bible doesn't give us the reason, but it's human rebellion that turns people away from him. Thus, humanity's responsibility is to believe in and trust Jesus Christ. However, we are born rebellious, and many of us remain so all of our lives, sadly.

 

[BBAS 64]

So you agree that God wants all men to repent? I can't tell from your answer.

Good Day, KWatt

No for if that was His desire then he would grant to all people repentance for the explicit purpose of coming to the knowledge of truth. Seeing that not all come to the knowledge of truth, he does not desire it.

2 Tim 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

Man can not repent unless it is perhaps granted to them by God Himself.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Basil the Great]

The Catholic theologian Balthasar taught that it is permissible to hope that all will be saved, but not to affirm such to be the case.

 

[Blade]

just tossing this out there.. might not be about any of this but I like this..

"And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

There are allot of people in this world. Yet.. before Israel.. before the other nations. God said "Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” Yeah....

Peter "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

So does GOD want.. desire all to be saved.. silly question. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved..

Will all man be saved.. that to is silly.. no. See as I read OT and NT.. He has not changed. He has always loved the world. There is no one on this planet that SOMEONE else made. His love for each is the same. Its you and that leave Him.. go after other gods. I am with NO *ISM's. I don't care what I ..want to say sound like but.. I don't believe you can hear me.. can you hear me now? lol...

 

[fhansen]

What does the bible say about this?

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in anyone's death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!

1 Timothy 2
3This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

Revelation 2:21
Even though I have given her time to repent of her immorality, she is unwilling.

Matt 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her. How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

God loves man, His handiwork, enormously, far beyond our ability to imagine, even if we most often fail to live up to His ideal for us, to the potential He made us for. The Cross, especially, demonstrates this fact. But His goal is to get us all there. We can refuse-and He won't force us to turn to Him; He won't force us to love Him as He loves us.

 

[Religiot]

What does the bible say about this?

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in anyone's death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!

1 Timothy 2
3This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

Revelation 2:21
Even though I have given her time to repent of her immorality, she is unwilling.

Matt 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her. How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Yes, yes He does.

 

[msortwell]

Job 23:13
13 "But He is unique, and who can make Him change?
And whatever His soul desires, that He does. NKJV

Numbers 23:19-20
19 "God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
20 Behold, I have received a command to bless;
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it. NKJV

Job 9:12-13
12 If He takes away, who can hinder Him?
Who can say to Him, 'What are You doing?'
13 God will not withdraw His anger,
The allies of the proud lie prostrate beneath Him. NKJV

Job 11:10
10 "If He passes by, imprisons, and gathers to judgment,
Then who can hinder Him? NKJV

Job 12:14
14 If He breaks a thing down, it cannot be rebuilt;
If He imprisons a man, there can be no release. NKJV

Job 34:29
29 When He gives quietness, who then can make trouble?
And when He hides His face, who then can see Him,
Whether it is against a nation or a man alone? — NKJV

Ecclesiastes 3:14
14 I know that whatever God does,
It shall be forever.
Nothing can be added to it,
And nothing taken from it.
God does it, that men should fear before Him. NKJV

 

[zoidar]

Good Day, KWatt

No for if that was His desire then he would grant to all people repentance for the explicit purpose of coming to the knowledge of truth. Seeing that not all come to the knowledge of truth, he does not desire it.

2 Tim 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

Man can not repent unless it is perhaps granted to them by God Himself.

In Him,

Bill

Doesn't this rid us of our responsibilty? I could for an example sit home all day and say: "God grants who He grants" or I could do something about it, go out on the streets, fast and pray. It's in our power to choose, certainly the outcome will be different.

 

[Hammster]

Doesn't this rid us of our responsibilty? I could for an example sit home all day and say: "God grants who He grants" or I could do something about it, go out on the streets, fast and pray. It's in our power to choose, certainly the outcome will be different.

It’s not a matter of ability. It’s a matter of will.