Does God Want All Men to be Saved?

[K Watt]

I showed you the verse.

The verse didn't address the point.

Jesus preached to these people after their death.

 

[K Watt]

You never quote context. Shows the weakness of your position.

By "context" you mean Calvinist talking points. That's true.

 

[Hammster]

The verse didn't address the point.

Jesus preached to these people after their death.

Maybe you forgot what your OP asked.

Does God Want All Men to be Saved?

I assume that this includes people who lived before the cross. Or do they not matter?

 

[K Watt]

Maybe you forgot what your OP asked.

Does God Want All Men to be Saved?

I assume that this includes people who lived before the cross. Or do they not matter?

Yes, God wants all men to be saved. Yes, it includes men who lived before Christ.

Why did Jesus descend to the dead after his resurrection?

18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, 19in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

 

[Hammster]

By "context" you mean Calvinist talking points. That's true.

Yes. Understanding the scriptures as they were intended to be understood is a Reformed Theology talking point.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, God wants all men to be saved. Yes, it includes men who lived before Christ.

Why did Jesus descend to the dead after his resurrection?

18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, 19in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

That’s not all men before Christ.

 

[K Watt]

That’s not all men before Christ.

He spoke to those In prison. Who was not in there?

Acts 10
34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right.


Notice that this is not something new, it's just a new revelation to Peter.

 

[BBAS 64]

You never seem to address verses that contradict your dogma. You just claim they are out of context then quote someone else.

It's evasive and demonstrates the weakness of your position.

Good Day, KWatt

Fair enough...

Let see how you do hermetic and grammatical reading and handling of the text.


We shall look at 2 passages in context.

This one first


1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

So the answer to the OP is all men with out distinction is with out apology - No

Is it fair to assume that for you and your handling of the text that the "all people" means every single person that ever lived (with out distinction)?

I believe you have answered Yes before, is that still accurate?

We will look at this particular construction in the Greek in later post.

Do you agree with the possible meanings of the Adjective "all" in this particular construction could be:

Thayer Definition:
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things,everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types
Part of Speech: adjective

Is it you view that the men, and the all that follow in the context represents the same group of all people with out distinction?


In Him,

Bill

 

[Hammster]

He spoke to those In prison. Who was not in there?

Acts 10
34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right.


Notice that this is not something new, it's just a new revelation to Peter.

Did you even read all of what you posted?

 

[K Watt]

Good Day, KWatt

Fair enough...

Let see how you do hermetic and grammatical reading and handling of the text.


We shall look at 2 passages in context.

This one first


1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

So the answer to the OP is all men with out distinction is with out apology - No

Is it fair to assume that for you and your handling of the text that the "all people" means every single person that ever lived (with out distinction)?

I believe you have answered Yes before, is that still accurate?

We will look at this particular construction in the Greek in later post.

Do you agree with the possible meanings of the Adjective "all" in this particular construction could be:

Thayer Definition:
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things,everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types
Part of Speech: adjective

Is it you view that the men, and the all that follow in the context represents the same group of all people with out distinction?


In Him,

Bill

Yes, it means all. No exceptions.

Here's another example:

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, K Watt

2Pe 3:1 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles,knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

The verse you took out of the context contains both pronouns and adjectives.

So to which nouns or pronouns do they refer or modify(adj).

There are clear only 2 groups of people in this text:

believers - Beloved, your
scoffers - they willingly are ignorant

Also as a side what is the "his Promise" in the text and whom is it made?

In Him,

Bill

 

[K Watt]

Good Day, K Watt

2Pe 3:1 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles,knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

The verse you took out of the context contains both pronouns and adjectives.

So to which nouns or pronouns do they refer or modify(adj).

There are clear only 2 groups of people in this text:

believers - Beloved, your
scoffers - they willingly are ignorant

Also as a side what is the "his Promise" in the text and whom is it made?

In Him,

Bill

Peter lists no exceptions. God wants all to come to repentance.

Why would God not want someone to repent?

 

[Hammster]

Yes, it means all. No exceptions.

Here's another example:

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

You’ll have to make your universalism argument in Controversial Christian Theology.

 

[BBAS 64]

Peter lists no exceptions. God wants all to come to repentance.

Why would God not want someone to repent?

Good Day, KWatt

Just another baseless assertion by you .. can you maybe deal with the text in it's context.

Which noun or pronoun does the ADJ All modify?
By use the adj is limited by it's context ... If you could please take on the text and the grammar.

Thanks!

Bill

 

[K Watt]

Good Day, KWatt

Just another baseless assertion by you .. can you maybe deal with the text in it's context.

Which noun or pronoun does the ADJ All modify?
By use the adj is limited by it's context ... If you could please take on the text and the grammar.

Thanks!

Bill

Do you believe there is any man that God does not want to repent?

 

[BBAS 64]

Yes, it means all. No exceptions.

Here's another example:

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Good Day, Kwatt

So then Christ meditates for (all men with out distinction)before the throne of the Father for the purpose of:

Thayer Definition:
1) one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant

So would you agree in accordance with Hebrews 9 and the effect "so that" purpose clause.

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

May receive the promised, and that redeems them ( all men with out distinction) in your view.That would make you a universalist.

Unless of course you believe that in the role of mediator Jesus fails to make peace between God and (all men with out distinction)

Defined:

To mediate- one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant.

Which is it?

in talking talk about ransom ... Jesus paid the kinsman redeemer price demanded by the Father and that was not enough in the eyes of the Father.... he alone is not an sufficient nor effective redeemer.

Which is it?


In Him,

Bill

 

[K Watt]

Good Day, Kwatt

So then Christ meditates for (all men with out distinction)before the throne of the Father for the purpose of:

Thayer Definition:
1) one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant

So would you agree in accordance with Hebrews 9 and the effect "so that" purpose clause.

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

May receive the promised, and that redeems them ( all men with out distinction) in your view.That would make you a universalist.

Unless of course you believe that in the role of mediator Jesus fails to make peace between God and (all men with out distinction)

Defined:

To mediate- one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant.

Which is it?

in talking talk about ransom ... Jesus paid the kinsman redeemer price demanded by the Father and that was not enough in the eyes of the Father.... he alone is not an sufficient nor effective redeemer.

Which is it?


In Him,

Bill

Christ draws all men to himself. Not all will obey and endure.

Read the parable of the seeds.

 

[BBAS 64]

Do you believe there is any man that God does not want to repent?

Good Day,

He command it yes... he also grants it so that people can do so.

Bill

 

[Dave L]

Calvinism is a false doctrine.

You need to be a Calvinist and experience Salvation from that point of view or it won't make sense.

 

[BBAS 64]

Christ draws all men to himself. Not all will obey and endure.

Read the parable of the seeds.

Good day, Kwatt

Recommend DA Carson of that Parable... Good ground is not able to make it's self good it is made good by an external entity.

Augustine notes: Will is not taken away by grace, but is changed from evil into good, and helped when it is good. By this he means only that man is not borne along without any motion of the heart, as if by an outside force; rather, he is so affected within that he obeys from the heart. Augustine writes to Boniface that grace is specially and freely given to the elect in this manner:

He said this to point to the way he would die has nothing to do with Gods desires.


In Him
Bill