Does God loves the devil?

[Not David]

How? If so, is his love the same as for humanity?

 

[TuxAme]

Yes, He does. Satan is also part of His Creation.

 

[Not David]

Yes, He does. Satan is also part of His Creation.

H
True, but has God prove salvation for him?

 

[Artra]

How? If so, is his love the same as for humanity?

God loved Lucifer. I believe God sees Lucifer the same way you'd look at your own child if they became a sociopathic serial killer behind bars, vowing to destroy everything you love every time he gets out of prison for nothing else but spite and resentment, and remembering the bright boy he once was.

 

[Selene03]

H
True, but has God prove salvation for him?

No. Christ came to save fallen man, not fallen angels.

 

[bekkilyn]

We're not informed as to whether God has or will have at any point a path of salvation for Satan. I suspect very strongly that God would welcome him back as like the Prodigal Son BUT the big question is, would Satan ever choose to want to go back? Based on what we can seem to determine from scripture, that answer would be, "no," but in truth, only God knows and he doesn't reveal everything to us, particularly when it doesn't concern humankind.

 

[Selene03]

We're not informed as to whether God has or will have at any point a path of salvation for Satan. I suspect very strongly that God would welcome him back as like the Prodigal Son BUT the big question is, would Satan ever choose to want to go back? Based on what we can seem to determine from scripture, that answer would be, "no," but in truth, only God knows and he doesn't reveal everything to us, particularly when it doesn't concern humankind.

Free will was given to both man and angels, but there's a difference. The free will given to man is moveable. In other words, man can change his mind. He can reject God and later change his mind and accept God. Angels don't have that because they were spiritual creatures already in God's Kingdom. The free will given to the angels in Heaven is irrevocable once they made their choice. They can make their choice only once.....like a dying man at the point of death. A man can change his mind many times during the course of his lifetime, but at the point of death, he needs to finally make his choice....either choose God or reject Him. The free will given to the angels is like that. They are given one time to choose because they are already in Heaven. The angels who accepted God were confirmed while those who chose to reject Him were kicked out of Heaven.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yes, God loves the devil, and that's what torments him so much.

 

[bekkilyn]

Free will was given to both man and angels, but there's a difference. The free will given to man is moveable. In other words, man can change his mind. He can reject God and later change his mind and accept God. Angels don't have that because they were spiritual creatures already in God's Kingdom. The free will given to the angels in Heaven is irrevocable once they made their choice. They can make their choice only once.....like a dying man at the point of death. A man can change his mind many times during the course of his lifetime, but at the point of death, he needs to finally make his choice....either choose God or reject Him. The free will given to the angels is like that. They are given one time to choose because they are already in Heaven. The angels who accepted God were confirmed while those who chose to reject Him were kicked out of Heaven.

An interesting theory, and it could be true, but where are you getting this information from?

 

[FireDragon76]

I see no evidence that the Devil will be saved. The Augsburg Confession condemns the notion that the Devil and fallen angels will eventually be saved, an idea that was spreading among radical groups at the time. The same article also condemns the notion that Christians are to establish theocracy. So it's possible the ideas may have been related. At any rate, it is not a significant doctrine now days, more of an historical relic, but it still is a possible "Lutheran" response.

 

[Not David]

yes, God loves the devil, and that's what torments him so much.

Does he love him at the same level or less than humans?

 

[Not David]

I see no evidence that the Devil will be saved. The Augsburg Confession condemns the notion that the Devil and fallen angels will eventually be saved, an idea that was spreading among radical groups at the time. The same article also condemns the notion that Christians are to establish theocracy. So it's possible the ideas may have been related. At any rate, it is not a significant doctrine now days, more of an historical relic, but it still is a possible "Lutheran" response.

There are Conservative Lutherans though.

 

[Selene03]

An interesting theory, and it could be true, but where are you getting this information from?

It was from St. Thomas Aquinas.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Does he love him at the same level or less than humans?

you can't quantify God's love.

 

[FireDragon76]

There are Conservative Lutherans though.

I doubt even many of the LCMS are aware of it, outside of the possibly seminarians or academics. For all the bluster about the confessions, much of the ethos just comes down to cultural conservativism and cultural insularity. As Jaroslav Pelikan said when he was contemplating Orthodoxy, the LCMS church left him when it took a turn towards becoming Baptist.

I think my pastor was surprised I studied the confessions in detail before I formally was received. I had alot of pointed questions, and that was one that surprised him.

 

[AMM]

I doubt even many of the LCMS are aware of it, outside of the possibly seminarians or academics. For all the bluster about the confessions, much of the ethos just comes down to cultural conservativism and cultural insularity. As Jaroslav Pelikan said when he was contemplating Orthodoxy, the LCMS church left him when it took a turn towards becoming Baptist.

I think my pastor was surprised I studied the confessions in detail before I formally was received. I had alot of pointed questions, and that was one that surprised him.

doesn't really impact me anymore since I went East, but I do wish more Lutherans studied the Confessions. They're gold (or at least silver) at times, and they brought me closer to Orthodoxy. I concur with Pelikan though - on paper it's a great church, in practice... depends on the day

 

[Not David]

you can't quantify God's love.

Why not? Especially if mankind was created in the image of God.

 

[Not David]

I doubt even many of the LCMS are aware of it, outside of the possibly seminarians or academics. For all the bluster about the confessions, much of the ethos just comes down to cultural conservativism and cultural insularity. As Jaroslav Pelikan said when he was contemplating Orthodoxy, the LCMS church left him when it took a turn towards becoming Baptist.

I think my pastor was surprised I studied the confessions in detail before I formally was received. I had alot of pointed questions, and that was one that surprised him.

To be fair, I believe LCMS has been influenced by Evangelical Culture even if they are still liturgical.

 

[AMM]

To be fair, I believe LCMS has been influenced by Evangelical Culture even if they are still liturgical.

for sure. Most of the LCMS would admit this too. Fewer would say it's a bad thing - a lot are in full support and think it should be even more evangelical (i.e. metho-bapti-costal)

 

[FireDragon76]

To be fair, I believe LCMS has been influenced by Evangelical Culture even if they are still liturgical.

The LCMS has had a strong element of cultural conservativism and insularity for some time, in some ways emulating Evangelical culture is natural. The only time it was different for the LCMS was in the 50's and 60's, when they were closer to the Protestant mainline.

Some LCMS are also not so high liturgical anymore. Unlike ELCA churches, they do not typically have Communion every week. This is something the more high church folks lament. People in the pews and pastors make up excuses and Lutherans are generally conservative but indifferentists, so they don't push for changes once the liturgy becomes more and more minimal.

ELCA churches actually stopped the downward spiral into liturgical minimalism because of drawing from mainline theology and liturgical renewal in the 50's and 60's. The Eucharist has more of a character of a celebration, a "sacrifice of praise" for us, whereas for the LCMS it's more of a "flat" sort of thing that is more acutely focused on the supposed tortured conscience and forgiveness (they are very much stuck in 17th century Lutheran orthodoxy on that point).