Does God invoke FEAR in anyone anymore?

[Nadiine]

I'd invite anyone to a study on VISIONS of the prophets -visitations, appearances, etc.

Read Isaiah 6 when Isaiah is taken into a vision w/ God. Read about Daniel's visit...

Dan 8:17 So he (Gabriel) came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end [shall be] the vision.​

Exd 3:6 (burning bush)Moreover he said, I [am] the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Mt. 17:5-7 (transfiguration) While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
And when the disciples heard [it], they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

Luke 1:11-12 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
And when Zacharias saw [him], he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not
​

Gideon in Jdgs 6 is an exception, he doesn't fear or fall on his face. - but I think that since angels can APPEAR AS REGULAR MEN... there are different kinds of visions and revealing that happens. Some may not be fully aware?

Hbr 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.​

Do I think I'd be any more "brave" or fearless than those Godly people who had these close encounters with God or His angels?
Absolutely Not.

Yes, I'd FEAR too. I know all the verses about fear, but I'm still human, and seeing God or a huge angel in front of me would bring a reverant fear out of me & I'd be graveling face-down on the ground.

 

[BereanTodd]

There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18

Ok, first off you continually misquote that. The verse reads "There is no fear in LOVE".

Secondly, if you are going to continually assert this, then let me assume your position is true. Now please explain to me how to understand the MULTIPLE verses I quoted for you above in post #52. What do they mean?

 

[chris777]

There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18

You seem to hold your entire view of
God based on one line of scripture, yet you deny the very words of Christ himself when he said to Fear God.
How is your doctrine any different than others who take one verse, and use it to pass out false doctrines?

I am trying to comprehend your view

could you please elaborate further

 

[jad123]

We don't need to be afraid of God, especially we who are saved. God wants nothing but good for us.

What do you base this belief on when Scripture is very clear that we are to fear the Lord?

 

[savedandhappy1]

I sometimes wish that the Bible didn't tell us once saved always saved, because then maybe we would stay on that narrow path better. Nah, the Israelites didn't have the blood of the Lamb like us, and they still had trouble winning the war of flesh against Spirit.

 

[jad123]

I sometimes wish that the Bible didn't tell us once saved always saved, because then maybe we would stay on that narrow path better. Nah, the Israelites didn't have the blood of the Lamb like us, and they still had trouble winning the war of flesh against Spirit.

The Bible does not tell us that. Man does.

 

[Nadiine]

You seem to hold your entire view of
God based on one line of scripture, yet you deny the very words of Christ himself when he said to Fear God.
How is your doctrine any different than others who take one verse, and use it to pass out false doctrines?

Using ONE verse to make entire doctrines is a popular practice in today's version of Christianity; so is IGNORING many verses that don't seem to fit theological preferences.

Biblical FEAR of the Lord:

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.​

Pro 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil.​

Lexicon (OT) Fear: yir'ah=
1) fear, terror, fearing ​

a) fear, terror
b) awesome or terrifying thing (object causing fear)


c) fear (of God), respect, reverence, piety

d) revered​

********************************​

NT: Act 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.​

Greek Lexicon (NT) Fear: phobos: from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear)​

1) fear, dread, terror


a) that which strikes terror

2) reverence for one's husband​

*****
1Pe 2:17 Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
(ps. honor the King means to honor your Ruler/president)​

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

​

​

Greek Lexicon: Fear: phobeo
(root of above Phobos)​

1) to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
a) to put to flight, to flee
b) to fear, be afraid
1) to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm
a) of those startled by strange sights or occurrences
b) of those struck with amazement
2) to fear, be afraid of one


3) to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)

c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience​

​

I believe the Greek use of FEAR of God here is a root of our English word, Phobia? ​

(someone please correct me if I'm wrong)!!​

I find there is a literal 'fear' we're to have of God (of His power & justice); combined with humble reverence.
Like a child has a healthy "fear" of their parent's ability to discipline/punish, yet LOVE of them.​

 

[jad123]

Using ONE verse to make entire doctrines is a popular practice in today's version of Christianity; so is IGNORING many verses that don't seem to fit theological preferences.

Biblical FEAR of the Lord:

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.​

Pro 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil.​

Lexicon (OT) Fear: yir'ah=
1) fear, terror, fearing ​

a) fear, terror
b) awesome or terrifying thing (object causing fear)



c) fear (of God), respect, reverence, piety

d) revered​

********************************​

NT: Act 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.​

Greek Lexicon (NT) Fear: phobos: from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear)​

1) fear, dread, terror



a) that which strikes terror

2) reverence for one's husband​

*****
1Pe 2:17 Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
(ps. honor the King means to honor your Ruler/president)​

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

Greek Lexicon: Fear: phobeo
(root of above Phobos)​

1) to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
a) to put to flight, to flee
b) to fear, be afraid
1) to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm
a) of those startled by strange sights or occurrences
b) of those struck with amazement
2) to fear, be afraid of one



3) to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)

c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience​

​

I believe the Greek use of FEAR of God here is a root of our English word, Phobia? ​

(someone please correct me if I'm wrong)!!​

I find there is a literal 'fear' we're to have of God (of His power & justice); combined with humble reverence.

Like a child has a healthy "fear" of their parent's ability to discipline/punish, yet LOVE of them.​

Well said.

 

[savedandhappy1]

The Bible does not tell us that. Man does.

Well it may not use that phrase, but I believe the meaning is there.

That would be another thread so will not say anymore so as not to hijack this thread.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Well said.

Yes, very well said.
​

 

[holo]

If you could back that claim up with Scripture please.

What do you base this belief on when Scripture is very clear that we are to fear the Lord?

The scriptures are also very clear on "fear not!"

Jesus didn't come to judge us, but to save us, he died for us while we were(!) still sinners, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus etc etc.

I do revere and respect the Lord. I know every good thing comes from him and that I deserve nothing of it, and I often bow to him inwardly. But I'm never afraid of him. He makes me gasp in awe and wonder, but he never scares me. Why would he? I'm his child!

 

[holo]

Using ONE verse to make entire doctrines is a popular practice in today's version of Christianity; so is IGNORING many verses that don't seem to fit theological preferences.

No offense, Nadiine, but you're guilty of that yourself. I'm thinking of how you keep saying the believer is both righteous and a sinner at the same time, and you've only had ONE single verse to show for it.

That doesn't mean you're wrong, but it does mean you have no grounds to accuse others of doing the same thing.

 

[Nadiine]

The scriptures are also very clear on "fear not!"

Jesus didn't come to judge us, but to save us, he died for us while we were(!) still sinners, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus etc etc.

I do revere and respect the Lord. I know every good thing comes from him and that I deserve nothing of it, and I often bow to him inwardly. But I'm never afraid of him. He makes me gasp in awe and wonder, but he never scares me. Why would he? I'm his child!

When Jesus came the FIRST time, He didn't come to judge us... He came to save. WHEN JESUS COMES AGAIN, HE IS COMING AS JUDGE. Rev. 1 & 19.

The FEAR is something similar to what a child has of their parent in regards to their power & discipline. LOVE aside, they still hold that place of authority.

I also feel a 'fear' when a police officer pulls me over or when i'm in their presence even when I've done nothing wrong.

But, your parents love you, and you love them; you still hold the 'fear' of their authority/capability to impose the authority. That doesnt' remove love, it doesn't remove His mercy. Rev 3, Those whom I love, rebuke and chasten, so be zealous therefore, and repent.

Here's what the BIBLE says in Greek & hebrew, and I see a literal fear in the mix:

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.​

Pro 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil.​

Lexicon (OT) Fear: yir'ah=
1) fear, terror, fearing
a) fear, terror
b) awesome or terrifying thing (object causing fear)
c) fear (of God), respect, reverence, piety
d) revered​

********************************​

NT: Act 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.​

Greek Lexicon (NT) Fear: phobos: from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear)​

1) fear, dread, terror
a) that which strikes terror
2) reverence for one's husband

*****
1Pe 2:17 Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
(ps. honor the King means to honor your Ruler/president)​

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

Greek Lexicon: Fear: phobeo
(root of above Phobos)​

1) to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
a) to put to flight, to flee
b) to fear, be afraid
1) to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm
a) of those startled by strange sights or occurrences
b) of those struck with amazement
2) to fear, be afraid of one
3) to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)
c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience​

​

I believe the Greek use of FEAR of God here is a root of our English word, Phobia? ​

(someone please correct me if I'm wrong)!!​

 

[Nadiine]

No offense, Nadiine, but you're guilty of that yourself. I'm thinking of how you keep saying the believer is both righteous and a sinner at the same time, and you've only had ONE single verse to show for it.

That doesn't mean you're wrong, but it does mean you have no grounds to accuse others of doing the same thing.

No holo, when a person clings to one, they are equally REJECTING all others that seem to oppose it, that's why I said Paul called himself a "Chief Sinner", therefore we are both sinners (after salvation) AND righteous. (saved, yet still sin).

You hung onto ONLY the righteous verses, and utterly ignored Pauls claim of being a sinner after salvation as if it didn't exist.

Were supposed to combine all the verses to come to the truth, not avoid or remove any as if one cancels the other out (which renders the bible a self refuting mess).

 

[holo]

When Jesus came the FIRST time, He didn't come to judge us... He came to save. WHEN JESUS COMES AGAIN, HE IS COMING AS JUDGE. Rev. 1 & 19.

The FEAR is something similar to what a child has of their parent in regards to their power & discipline. LOVE aside, they still hold that place of authority.

I also feel a 'fear' when a police officer pulls me over or when i'm in their presence even when I've done nothing wrong.

But, your parents love you, and you love them; you still hold the 'fear' of their authority/capability to impose the authority. That doesnt' remove love, it doesn't remove His mercy. Rev 3, Those whom I love, rebuke and chasten, so be zealous therefore, and repent.

Here's what the BIBLE says in Greek & hebrew, and I see a literal fear in the mix:

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.​

Pro 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil.​

Lexicon (OT) Fear: yir'ah=
1) fear, terror, fearing
a) fear, terror
b) awesome or terrifying thing (object causing fear)
c) fear (of God), respect, reverence, piety
d) revered​

********************************​

NT: Act 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.​

Greek Lexicon (NT) Fear: phobos: from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear)​

1) fear, dread, terror
a) that which strikes terror
2) reverence for one's husband

*****
1Pe 2:17 Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
(ps. honor the King means to honor your Ruler/president)​

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

Greek Lexicon: Fear: phobeo
(root of above Phobos)​

1) to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
a) to put to flight, to flee
b) to fear, be afraid
1) to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm
a) of those startled by strange sights or occurrences
b) of those struck with amazement
2) to fear, be afraid of one
3) to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)
c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience​

​

I believe the Greek use of FEAR of God here is a root of our English word, Phobia? ​

(someone please correct me if I'm wrong)!!​

I agree with what you say about parents and children. But keep in mind that parents are different, and your relationship to you father is likely to influence how you see God as a father.

There are also cultural differences. I see that in the U.S. parents in general have a lot more authority than here.

I've experienced God to be so incredibly much more loving to me than I ever imagined, even though I'm raised in christianity.

Remember that it is the devil who is the accuser. Jesus is the lawyer, and a lawyer defends his client because he's his client, just like you love your children for no other reason than the fact that they are your children.

 

[holo]

No holo, when a person clings to one, they are equally REJECTING all others that seem to oppose it, that's why I said Paul called himself a "Chief Sinner", therefore we are both sinners (after salvation) AND righteous. (saved, yet still sin).

You hung onto ONLY the righteous verses, and utterly ignored Pauls claim of being a sinner after salvation as if it didn't exist.

No, I don't, I just believe that Paul was referring to himself as a sinner in the past tense, like he does elsewhere ("... Christ died for us while we were sinners). I don't ignore this one verse, I just see in in context with the rest.

I haven't said we don't sin, but I am saying that it's not our behaviour that decides who we are. With your logic we must conclude that a sinner/unsaved person is not only a sinner, but also righteous if he does something good.

As for sheer numbers, verses that call us "holy," "sanctified," "righteous," "clean" and so forth, most definitely outnumbers this one verse, which I in addition believe you interpret wrongly.

 

[holo]

Sorry for bringing this up here, it belongs in another thread.

 

[chris777]

I agree with what you say about parents and children. But keep in mind that parents are different, and your relationship to you father is likely to influence how you see God as a father.

But do you agree that there is a reason to fezr ones parents?

There are also cultural differences. I see that in the U.S. parents in general have a lot more authority than here.

That may be more of a perception than reality, how is your country lacking?

I've experienced God to be so incredibly much more loving to me than I ever imagined, even though I'm raised in christianity.

I hope no one in this thread, has denied his love, But there are reasons to fear him, as for your experience, I concur I have had a similar experience in my life where I was loosely brought up i nthe church, but I had no understanding, and upon receiving some understanding, things became much clearer for me, completely changing my entire view of lifefe itseld

Remember that it is the devil who is the accuser. Jesus is the lawyer, and a lawyer defends his client because he's his client, just like you love your children for no other reason than the fact that they are your children.

But it is because I love my children that I want them to fear me, I would rather them fear me, than be harmed, and many people are not motivated anywhere near as effectively, with other means than fear.
For example, we share the Gospel with others, out of our love for them ,and our desire that they be saved, and not endup in the lake of fiire. But if we were hypothetically a member of a cult, or a false teacher, teaching doctrines that are wrong, and leading many astray, then we need to fear God and his rebukement, MORE than any lost person, or sinner, because we should know better(this was not pointed or accusing it is just an example to try and convey my point)
I am a Prime example, early into my walk toward christianity, I was skeptical to the authority and reliability of scripture ,and I made it publicly known often. I can only Pray that my foolish words, fell on deaf ears. But I was adding to, and diminishing from the scriptures, with zero evidence that they had been tampered with. The Lord showed me the error of my ways, and Corrected me, with one verse in particular, that Got me to rethink my life as a christian.
Rev 22
[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things,God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

these verses shocked me, and terrified me. Think of it as a treasure map, a road map, or a masterpiece. if you go mucking with it, you are bound to mess something up. And shortly after being shown this verse He showed me that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

 

[holo]

But do you agree that there is a reason to fezr ones parents?

No. I don't fear my parents at all, and the only times I feared them as a child, was when I was afraid they were going to punish me for messing up.

God doesn't punish us for messing up.

That may be more of a perception than reality, how is your country lacking?

For example, it's pretty much unheard of here that a man more or less decides that his daughter can't date this or that dude. Stuff like grounding your child is rare too. From what I've seen, american parents enjoy a lot more authority and respect. I don't think that's necessarily a good thing though.

But it is because I love my children that I want them to fear me, I would rather them fear me, than be harmed, and many people are not motivated anywhere near as effectively, with other means than fear.

I wouldn't want my children to fear me in any way whatsoever. I hope to lead by example. When I think about my dad and how I want to be like him, it's never because of punishment. It's because he's so inspiring.

I don't think fear is actually motivation. It's desperation, it's being forced.

But if we were hypothetically a member of a cult, or a false teacher, teaching doctrines that are wrong, and leading many astray, then we need to fear God and his rebukement, MORE than any lost person, or sinner, because we should know better(this was not pointed or accusing it is just an example to try and convey my point)

I take the point, and I agree. But we, who are God's children, certainly don't need to be afraid of him.

 

[jad123]

No. I don't fear my parents at all, and the only times I feared them as a child, was when I was afraid they were going to punish me for messing up.

God doesn't punish us for messing up.

What? He doesn't? Scripture says other wise. We are told we are disciplined.

Heb 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father does not chasten?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons. Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh who corrected us, and we gave them reverence. Shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?
Heb 12:10 For truly they chastened us for a few days according to their own pleasure, but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now chastening for the present does not seem to be joyous, but grievous. Nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are exercised by it.
Heb 12:12 Because of this, straighten up the hands which hang down and the enfeebled knees.
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way, but let it rather be healed.